| Author |
Message |
Rob King (Skykingrob)
Registered Member
Username: Skykingrob
Post Number: 6
Registered: 10-2006
Posted From: 72.161.10.47
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 8:46 pm: | |
When I bought my bus, it came with a 12.5 Kohler generator sitting in the bay. I want to install a remote start inside the coach, in fact, I would like a start-stop switch at the drivers position, kitchen and bedroom. It is a diesel generator. I called Kohler and their "remote generator start switch kits with cable" for this generator are no longer available. Not even an alternative. I called Dick Wright to see if he might have a suggestion. He wasn't there but Justin, his right hand man was, but he was no help saying he didn't have a single switch let alone a 3 spot switch. The generator has a box mounted above the generator portion of unit that has a glowplug switch, start-stop switch so I can start the unit but I really want a remote. Any ideas would be helpful but please, I am not an electronics major so make it simple. Thanks guys.
Rob
91 LeMirage XL
Missouri |
Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member
Username: Bill_gerrie
Post Number: 79
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 209.50.74.170
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 11:38 pm: | |
Rob
You will need a wireing diagram of the gen set. Most remotes are just a momentary spdt switch. I made a remote for my Onan 7.5 diesel gen set. I added a time delay for the glow plugs then the starter engages and the engine starts after 30 seconds. Works great. Bill |
John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member
Username: John_mc9
Post Number: 221
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 66.217.105.51
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 8:17 am: | |
It would seem to me, that even without a manual, you could
simply copy the wiring at the genset panel, buy switches, led
lights, and wire at Radio Shack and extend what's already
in place....(?)
If Bill can send you a picture or drawing of his glow plug
time-delay wiring, it'd be of great help to you.... That would
eliminate an extra switch...
What would add some complications, is your desire to have
multiple "remote" locations.... Although.... using a momentary
contact dbl throw/dbl pole switches, with one position "always on",
can make the project easier.. The genset won't start itself, but
you would have to be able to leave every switch on, to allow
the engine to be started at another location... Like the remote
switch wiring in the bus itself... Some imagination? Leave the
genset wired for "on", with momentary contact switches
(or pushbuttons) for start and stop (one is push to make, the
other is push to break).
For whatever it may be worth adding.... They sell hand-held
remote control wiring kits, to add to any automobile's start
systems.. so, instead of a bunch of wiring to all those locations,
you could carry a remote in your pocket....
But ya'know Rob... Most of us could use a few less pounds...
Walking 40' to turn on the genset, does have some good points.... |
Tim Hoskinson (Tdh37514151)
Registered Member
Username: Tdh37514151
Post Number: 209
Registered: 9-2004
Posted From: 4.224.234.2
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 9:50 am: | |
Hi John is correct with the idea that you can simply copy the wiring presently in your control. However when using a switch with one nomal open contact and one normal open momentary the swithes can be paralleled in the circut and will work fine. Any switch in the parallel circut can be used to complete the run circut as well as the momentary start circut the only draw back would be that you would need to always shut down the unit from the switch you started it from. Best of luck. Tim
By the way Bill thats one of the nicest looking newlook transits I have seen. I like your paint job
(Message edited by tdh37514151 on February 23, 2007) |
John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member
Username: John_mc9
Post Number: 222
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 66.217.106.142
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 10:28 am: | |
That's where wiring the genset in the "run" position.. and using
each switch to momentarily "break", or "open" that circuit, would
allow the starting, or stopping, of the genset from each location....
A "momentary off" pushbutton switch would serve the purpose.
Awww hell... use three pushbuttons... "Off", "start" and "glowplug".
There. That was easy!
(I still like the handheld remote start idea, tho) |
Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member
Username: Bill_gerrie
Post Number: 81
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 209.50.74.93
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 11:03 am: | |
Tim
Thanks. It is the design from the orginal transit company but with Brewers Retail colours. When people see it from a distance they know it is us. Bill
Rob
You can use 3 switches like John says and it will be very cheap to do. Just hold in the one for glow plugs for 30 seconds or so and then hit the one to start. Just run wires from each switch on the gen set to your remote location and you are in business. If they are momentary switches you can have as many locations as you want. Bill |
Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member
Username: Sean
Post Number: 544
Registered: 1-2003
Posted From: 67.45.244.133
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 12:28 am: | |
You don't say what year and model you have, but most Kohler generators made in the last several years utilize what is called a "two wire start" system. What this means is that the glow plug activation, crank time, and retry-backoff timers and counts are all pre-programmed into the unit (and usually settable through the front panel), and the unit then starts (and runs) with a simple SPST switch. When the switch is closed, the unit starts automatically, and remains running until the switch is opened again.
Please note that this method is distinctly different from (and incompatible with) so-called "three wire start" generators, such as the ones Dick Wright sells. This later type may actually be more common in the coach market. This is a non-automated type of start-stop system, where, as noted by other posters above, a voltage is applied to one wire to heat the glow plugs, and to a different wire to crank the engine. Stopping the generator on this system involves applying a voltage momentarily to a wire, which is often the same wire as the "glow" wire, but may be yet another wire altogether.
With the two-wire setup common on Kohlers, you can simply run the two wires from the remote start terminals out to a remote SPST switch someplace. If you want to be able to start and stop the unit from multiple locations, however, you may have some work to do.
You can, of course, simply run several SPST switches in parallel. The drawback to this is that you then must stop the unit from whichever switch was used to start the unit.
One solution to this is to use "three-way" switches (and "N-way," if more than two switches are needed), wired the same way as for a conventional multi-switch lighting application. A more elegant solution is to use momentary switches to close and open a latching or self-holding relay to do the work.
Latching relays are commonly available from sources such as Allied and Newark, and maybe even Grainger. Also, the Intellitec Battery Disconnect solenoid is a type of latching relay that is overkill for what you need, but commonly discounted at RV surplus stores.
HTH,
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.US |
Rob King (Skykingrob)
Registered Member
Username: Skykingrob
Post Number: 7
Registered: 10-2006
Posted From: 69.29.87.188
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 10:08 pm: | |
Thanks all. The model number is 12.5CC076-RV. Best info I have is about a 1990 model. I was able to finally talk to Dick Wright, he said he thought he had wiring diagram to make a harness from. I have been trying 4 months to get info for Kohler so at least I am making some progress now. Sean, I found this item on Ron the Busnut's site. Would this work to do what I want? http://www.ronthebusnut.com/detailDisp_950010.html
Rob
91 LeMirageXL
Missouri |
Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member
Username: Sean
Post Number: 547
Registered: 1-2003
Posted From: 67.45.244.133
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 6:02 pm: | |
Rob,
I was unsuccessful in getting any diagrams or information on that model, which is no longer current. If I had it in front of me, I could tell you for sure what you need.
If it is a "two-wire start" as I suspect, then, yes, the item you posted could be used to implement a remote-start from a number of locations. Looks like you could also control four other things with it as well, but, I have to say, it's very pricey. The parts to do what you want with a latching relay should come to less than $20.
-Sean |
Rob King (Skykingrob)
Registered Member
Username: Skykingrob
Post Number: 8
Registered: 10-2006
Posted From: 66.112.72.236
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 9:44 pm: | |
Hi Guys
Additional information. There are two switches mounted on the "start box" on the generator. Both are momentary on-off-momentary on switches. One is labeled stop below the switch neutral position and start above the neutral position. The other is labeled prime below the neutral position and glowplug above the neutral position. There are a total of four relays inside the box. I have not been able to get power hooked up to the unit so I am not able to check the voltages. It looks to me though that I should be able to make duplicate remote panels and just jumper them from this panel. I have a picture of the inside of the box but don't know how to post it.
Sean, I am not familiar with a "two-wire start". I have been reading alot about latching relays.
Thanks for the help so far. Any more ideas?
Rob
91 LeMirageXL
Missouri |
Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member
Username: Bill_gerrie
Post Number: 84
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 209.50.73.43
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 10:46 pm: | |
Rob
You say they are both (ON)-OFF-(ON) switches. It is a simple job to just run a wire from each terminal on each switch to as many locations as you want to the same terminal on the new switches. You are just going to parallel the existing switches with as many new ones as you want. I would suggest you use different colour wires to be able to tell which one is going where. The remote wires will only be 12 volts so just use stranded automotive wire. Hope you can understand this. Bill |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member
Username: Drivingmisslazy
Post Number: 1855
Registered: 1-2001
Posted From: 75.108.72.204
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 11:09 pm: | |
Bill, I believe he is saying the switches are on-off-momentary on. That means that they stay locked to the on position in one direction and are spring loaded from from the other on position to off. Therefore they can not just be wired in parallel.
Richard |
Rob King (Skykingrob)
Registered Member
Username: Skykingrob
Post Number: 9
Registered: 10-2006
Posted From: 69.29.103.209
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 10:30 pm: | |
Hi All
No the switches are both momentary on-off-momentary on switches. Switch 1 is in the neutral position. If you move switch 1 down, the label says off and is a momentary switch that returns to neutral when released. If you move switch 1 up, the label says on and is a momentary switch that returns to neutral when released. Switch 2 is in the neutral position when untouched. If you move switch 2 down, the label says prime and is a momentary switch that returns to neutral when released. If you move switch 2 up, the label says preheat and is a momentary switch that returns to neutral when released. Bill, I agree that it should be a simple matter of running parallel wires to remote locations. But the problem is, that I may want to start the generator from the drivers seat location and stop it from the bedroom. If I run them in parallel, then my understanding is, I won't be able to do that. If I am wrong, please let me know.
Rob
91 LeMirageXL
Msiiouri |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member
Username: Drivingmisslazy
Post Number: 1861
Registered: 1-2001
Posted From: 75.108.72.204
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 2:08 pm: | |
Bob, based on your last post then you should be able to wire as many switches in parallel as you desire with full control from any location.
For the small amount of cost and labor I think I would build up a test rig with 4-6 ft leads and test it all before making the permanent connections.
Richard |
Rob King (Skykingrob)
Registered Member
Username: Skykingrob
Post Number: 10
Registered: 10-2006
Posted From: 72.161.29.39
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 8:43 pm: | |
Hi All
Thanks to all for the suggestions. I appreciate it. I was planning to do a test run this weekend but Richard beat me to the suggestion.
Rob
91 LeMirage XL
Missouri |
Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member
Username: Bill_gerrie
Post Number: 85
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 209.50.74.190
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 11:43 pm: | |
Rob
A test run of a few switches is a good idea before you get the wires installed to give you piece of mind that it works. I can't see where you will have any problem starting or stoping from any location in any order. Bill |