| Author | Message | ||
| Tom Dessert (Mci5er)
Registered Member Username: Mci5er Post Number: 71 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.186.96.115 Rating: N/A |
Anyone converted their round 24v dual headlights to the newer rectangular 12v dual headlights ? Did some first time night driving with my MC 5, on our run to Quartzsite and the original lights leave a lot to be desired. I know IBP sells a conversion kit $600 for both sides, but was thinking the light buckets used in the kit look very similar to Kenworth duals and perhaps I could save some money here by doing it myself. Advice appreciated... Tom | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 730 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.27.225 Rating: N/A |
usualy..if your lights are weak looking..you have a bad ground on the headlight...not sure if kenworth are 24 volt | ||
| Tom Dessert (Mci5er)
Registered Member Username: Mci5er Post Number: 72 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.186.96.115 Rating: N/A |
Bob, good point about the ground I'll check that out. I'll also look at the alignment since it felt like I was over running my lights (low beam). They didn't seem to project far enough for comfort. The other thought for converting these lights over to rectangular 12v is availability on the road. Every Flying J or Pilot truck stop I visited on my trip sold standard 12v lighting stuff. I carry an extra 24v sealed beam with me just in case but that single headlight cost me $20+ and I had to order it from NAPA. This would be a summer project and am trying to decide if it's worth the effort. The kit that IBP has looks great and would make a nice face lift on her but the money ... well that's something we all find ourselves pausing to look at when it comes to upgrades. thanks Tom | ||
| captain ron (Captain_ron)
Registered Member Username: Captain_ron Post Number: 666 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 66.174.93.105 Rating: N/A |
I'm planning the same thing but I will get mine from salvage. I screwed up back in oct. there was a complete fiberglass front end laying on the side of the road in Nashville with the square lights. I'ts warmed up now so soon as I start making some money again I'm going balls to the wall on mine. | ||
| JR Lynch (Njt5047)
Registered Member Username: Njt5047 Post Number: 134 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.132.226.200 Rating: N/A |
I converted mine with IBP MC9 front panels. They work fine and look better than OEM round headlights (IMHO). I was pleasantly surprised with the fit of the panels. As you suggested, the headlights are typical of Petes, KW, etc. Also replaced the upper panels with IBP blanks so as to lose the round turn signals. Sorry, but never used the OEM round headlights enough at night to make a comparison. The square halogen headlights are great. Used those plenty...in rain and whatever. Best, JR | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 85 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
Tom If you are not overly concerned about the modern square look, consider installing quarts halogen round 5 1/4 inch like you have now using the 55 watt H4 bulbs made by various people such as BOSCH CIBIE and MARCHAL. The difference will amaze you, and you wont have to do any surgery, except for some wiring. BTW when I was in Quartzite, I spotted your bus from a mile away, stopped by and knocked on the door, but nobody home. Left a card on your door, perhaps you saw it. Joe. | ||
| Muddog16 (Muddog16)
Registered Member Username: Muddog16 Post Number: 329 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 4.225.90.222 Rating: N/A |
I've been looking for head light assembly's too, and the Kenworth look pretty good, my problem there isn't a truck salvage dealer anywhere close to Mayberry. The is a Kenworth dealer and the factory is about 40 miles from here! I'll let every one know what i find out there! Pat | ||
| Tom Dessert (Mci5er)
Registered Member Username: Mci5er Post Number: 73 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.186.96.115 Rating: N/A |
Joe, I'll check those Halogens out and yes I did get your card. My wife and I, had taken the toad on a shopping trip and found your card on the door that evening. The next morning we went around checking with a few of the busnuts in the LTVA trying to figure out which bus was yours. Met some great people and saw some really nice buses but couldn't figure out where you were. Hey, why don't you put up a picture and I'm sure to recognize you next time. Sorry to have missed you. Tom | ||
| captain ron (Captain_ron)
Registered Member Username: Captain_ron Post Number: 667 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 66.174.92.168 Rating: N/A |
Some body want to post a wiring diagram for the conversion. I have 2 24 to 12volt relays. Do I need to change anything in the dimmer switch or just after it? | ||
| Craig (Ceieio)
Registered Member Username: Ceieio Post Number: 282 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 207.101.213.58 Rating: N/A |
Tom - R & M headlight conversions come with something like this: http://www.transpo.de/Catalog/Browse.htm I bought one up in Portland, but I will have to look through the receipts at home to recall where. It was up in NW somewhere.. if you are interested I can probably find it as the bus is currently parked up by the house and not the usual long walk. Craig | ||
| Tom Dessert (Mci5er)
Registered Member Username: Mci5er Post Number: 74 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.186.96.115 Rating: N/A |
Craig, I'm not following your reference to the link. This company seems to sell components like rectifiers, diodes etc that have adjustable set points. So are you saying that as part of your front end upgrade R&M installed some type of voltage regulation components to accommodiate the new style lighting system. Sorry I'm a little slow this evening. Thanks Tom | ||
| Tom Dessert (Mci5er)
Registered Member Username: Mci5er Post Number: 75 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.186.96.115 Rating: N/A |
Ron, Do you have the MCI bulletin 1930 dated 5/21/1980 ? This product improvement bulletin covered changing the 24v headlights on the MCI 9 to a 12v system. It pretty much provides a parts list and shows the electrical changes required to do the change. I was going to use it as a baseline for my headlight conversion. If I went with brighter bulbs than stock ie, H4 CUBIE's like Joe recommended then I'd adjust the wire size accordingly. If you don't have it I can email it to you. Tom | ||
| captain ron (Captain_ron)
Registered Member Username: Captain_ron Post Number: 668 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 66.174.93.102 Rating: N/A |
Tom, Please do. I have "NOTHING" literature wise on my bus. No manuals at all. Thanks Ron | ||
| Tom Dessert (Mci5er)
Registered Member Username: Mci5er Post Number: 76 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.186.96.115 Rating: N/A |
Ron, Email on it's way yell at me if you didn't get it. Tom | ||
| captain ron (Captain_ron)
Registered Member Username: Captain_ron Post Number: 669 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 75.203.106.16 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Tom, I'll need help figuring the whole thing out. I have the fog light option. This looks harder than I thought it would be. Do any of the school buses have the square headlights like you want? There's a salvage yard about 2 miles from me that has several hundred school buses. | ||
| Tom Dessert (Mci5er)
Registered Member Username: Mci5er Post Number: 77 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.186.96.115 Rating: N/A |
Ron, There is a complete instruction bulletin for making this change.... step by step. It's noted on the document I sent you. The bulletin is number 1909 and I know I have it somewhere because I remember reading it. So hopefully I can find it or someone on the board has a copy of it. As for the the school buses, here is one on ebay, that has the dual rectangle lights. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1998-GMC-school-bus-crown-body-wheelchair-accessible_W0QQit emZ230096096147QQihZ013QQcategoryZ6728QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Look for any flat nosed school buses. They're the most likely to have the setup we're talking about. I'll keep looking for the other bulletin and if I find it I'll send it along. The drawings will be much easier to understand, if I can get you hooked up to a copy of the 9 maintenance manual. Tom | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 87 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
Tom We were visiting friends that winter in Parker Az. Flew into Phoenix and only took a week, but should have taken more time. Next year I guess. No bus ready as yet, but have the barn completed except for installation of the overhead door. Like most things it has taken longer than expected , but am looking forward to be working on it in comfort. The halogen lites have kept me out of harms way more than once, and I have used them off and on for the past thirty years. I am sure you will be happy with the results if you go that route. Joe. | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1196 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.195.112.181 Rating: |
Tom - I think you'll be deeply disappointed in the rectangular headlight's output, especially after spending a whole bunch of bucks to make the conversion. It's no different than the standard round US-spec lamps, actually a little worse due to the nature of the reflector. The problem really isn't the lights, it's our lousy US specs for headlamp output. Terrible light pattern, with lots of glare to oncoming traffic. OTOH, if you spend the $$ on some good Cibie European-code headlamps, you'll be a MUCH happier camper. The E-codes have a tremendously better light output - using the SAME H1, H3 or H4 bulb as US-spec quartz-halogens. Why? All has to do with the optics of the lens. E-Codes are much more finely tuned - they have a sharp cut-off to the left (similar to a good fog lamp) with a steep rise and strong focus to the right. They throw a LOT of light down the RH side of the roadway, without the annoying glare to oncoming traffic, when adjusted properly. Adjustment is easy, all you need is to be able to park on a flat surface 25 feet away from a wall. No fancy equipment necessary. Plus - you can get the bulbs in 24V!! Here's a link to the US distributor for Cibie: www.cibieusa.com When I did my defensive driving seminar at Arcadia, I brought along some Cibie's for the folks to see. Those that took the time to examine them after my talk all agreed that you could definitely see the difference in the quality of the lens optics, compared to US lamps. However, they are not US DOT approved for on-highway use. Last reason I heard was because they don't have those three little "pips" that the headlight aiming tools need, which is a pretty lame reason. Originally they weren't approved because they weren't sealed beams, but that argument's long gone out the window. . . I've been using E-codes since the '60's, and have NEVER been stopped because of these lights. Most law enforcement personnel wouldn't recognize the difference initially, anyway. I also live in a state that does not require vehicle inspections, other than for smog, so I've never had to deal with that type of bureaucracy. Note that they are NOT brighter lights - after all, they use the same H1, H3 or H4 bulb you can pick up at any Pep Boys or AutoZone. The difference is in the optics - more focused and better pattern. The light pattern output is so good with these lights that on Low Beam they will illuminate a stop sight approximately 1/4 mile away. On High Beam, that jumps to almost 3/4 of a mile. Try that with your US-spec lights! These aren't cheap, tho. A full set of four for your MCI will set you back about $250 - $275 or so with shipping from CibieUSA. OTOH. . . What price safety??? FWIW & HTH. . .  | ||
| Tom Dessert (Mci5er)
Registered Member Username: Mci5er Post Number: 78 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.186.96.115 Rating: N/A |
RJ, Joe mentioned the Cubie's also and I just got off their site. As a point of clarification doesn't Cubie make rectangular E code bulbs? The reason for asking is, I want my cake and eat it too. Improved looks of the rectangulars with Cibie type performance from the newer style housings. Since I don't have my hands on a Kenworth dual style light bucket, I don't know what size the bulb is for comparision. I had planned to convert my lights from 24 to 12 for what I believe are practical reasons. Availability of parts on the road and modest replacement cost being tops on my list. Standard halogen bulbs meet those requirements for right now. Tom | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1197 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.195.112.181 Rating: N/A |
Tom - Yes, Cibie does make the rectangulars in E-code specs, but IBMHE that the round models still provide the best light output. Ever been on a theatrical stage, or in a TV studio? How many rectangular lights have you seen in that environment, where focused lighting is crucial? It's a physics thing - has to do with reflective angles and all that stuff. Far more reflective "dead spots" with a rectangular shape than in a round one with the centered bulb. Don't know if the rectangulars are such a "modern" look anymore anyway - take a look at the headlights on the new "D", "E", and "J" model MCIs. . . AFAIC, rectangular headlights were a styling gimmick that reduced safety. FWIW & HTH. . . | ||
| Craig (Ceieio)
Registered Member Username: Ceieio Post Number: 283 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 207.101.213.58 Rating: N/A |
Tom - sorry - I did not realize the full url did not carry through... Click the link: http://www.transpo.de/Catalog/Browse.htm On the left side, scroll through the product categories and choose the DC/DC Equipment category. This action will cause another box to appear under the categories box. In the new box, select VARIOUS. This will bring up a product list. Scroll down until you find the part numbers VR24-1220 and VR24-1224. Looking at the device specs, I gather that VR24-1220 translates to "Voltage Reducer" 24 to 12 volts, 20 amps continuous. The VR24-1224 is 24A continuous. My bus has the VR24-1220 and works fine with my 4 rectangular headlights. The 24A might give more insurance. Mine is wired with switched 24v from the headlight switch powering the converter. The converter feeds the low beams, and the high beams via the dimmer switch. Cryptic I am sure, but yes, this was part of the R&M conversion kit at the time; can't say if it is still that way. Craig - MC7 Oregon | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 89 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
Tom "What goes around comes around" RJ makes reference to the "round" style that are being used on the new MCI coaches, It got me thinking they are not the only ones using them. Freightliner uses the old 7 inch now. In fact I made a call to the dealer to confirm and they assured me that on at least one of their models it is a 7 inch universal. So be ahead of the crowd without spending a bunch of money or having to do much work. Another fact I did not know, was the availability of the bulbs in 24 volts. How much simpler can it get. Joe. | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 150 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 71.125.61.116 Rating: N/A |
I can attest to the round headlites being the better of the two types. My mid 80's trucks have the miserable square units while my older truck and the bus have the round ones. Dont even get me started on the stupid lexan covered lens on my wifes car that fade and cloud minute by minute. |
