| Author | Message | ||
| Steve Krane (Steve_krane)
Registered Member Username: Steve_krane Post Number: 6 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 76.176.6.170 Rating: N/A |
Sometimes when I push the start switch on my 4106, the only thing that happens is the volt meter drops a volt or two and sweet silence. 1, or 2, or 5 attempts later, it starts up normally, plenty of juice, plenty of starter torque and all is well. I'm thinking it's going to not work at all at the worst possible time. Any suggestions where to start looking or how to isolate the problem? | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 684 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228 Rating: N/A |
I replaced my start button less than 10.00 at a truck supply | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member Username: Drivingmisslazy Post Number: 1829 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.108.87.29 Rating: N/A |
If the voltage is dropping when you push the start button, then the start button is not at fault. Need to be checking on the starter itself. Something has to be drawing quite a bit of current to cause the battery voltage to drop. Richard | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 688 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228 Rating: N/A |
let us know what it was Steve | ||
| Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member Username: Doninwa Post Number: 10 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 65.61.96.82 Rating: |
Have someone listen at the engine or use the rear start controls and see if the starter solenoid clicks. If it clicks and the starter does not turn first check the cables/connections, grounds too. If anything is getting warm it is a bad connection. If connections are good, then it is time to check voltage at the starter. With the start button pressed check the voltage at the hot connection of the solenoid and the switched/output of the solenoid. If normal and starter not turning suspect starter. If hot is good and output/switched is missing suspect solenoid. If voltage goes low and connections are good suspect starter. These tests can be done with just a test light. An amp probe makes it easier to tell how much current the starter is trying to pull. Makes it easier to tell if the starter is drawing to much current or the connections are bad. If no solenoid click then you have to trouble shoot the wiring. If you pull the starter to replace the solenoid, I would have the starter rebuilt too. It's in such a handy place to work on in our GMs you won't want to have to do it again. Good luck. | ||
| Tim Bookmiller (Bookman)
Registered Member Username: Bookman Post Number: 6 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 64.12.116.130 Rating: N/A |
Do not rule out you have a "starter-generator" relay.if gen points are engaged --starter will NOT engage -run down on how to set it is in the book -if when you turn "key" on - gen light is not on -relay is not working right | ||
| Tim Bookmiller (Bookman)
Registered Member Username: Bookman Post Number: 7 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 64.12.116.130 Rating: N/A |
Do not rule out your coach has a "starter-generator" relay . If gen contacts are made -starter will not engage. When you turn "key" on -gen light should be on --if not relay may be problem.Had similar problem BTDT -book tells how to set or can by a kit to replace relay all together | ||
| Steve Krane (Steve_krane)
Registered Member Username: Steve_krane Post Number: 7 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 76.176.6.170 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the tips. I'll post the result when I have it. It's one of those to do list things and when I have started to troubleshoot, it doesn't do it. Love that... | ||
| Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member Username: Doninwa Post Number: 12 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 65.61.96.82 Rating: N/A |
First rule of troubleshooting something intermittent is that it will NEVER do it when you want it to.  | ||
| Michael Malloy (Busnut06)
Registered Member Username: Busnut06 Post Number: 36 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 63.27.33.130 Rating: N/A |
Don's on the right track, before pulling the starter, Clean every cable connection, ground connection, don't miss the ones going through the bulkhead. Godspeed, Michael | ||
| Steve Krane (Steve_krane)
Registered Member Username: Steve_krane Post Number: 8 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 76.176.6.170 Rating: N/A |
Got a little more info. Happens from either the front start switch or the rear start switch. So, it's not the switch. When the start switch at the rear of the bus is energized and the bus doesn't start, I can hear a click. To check for connections by detecting warmth, do I need to leave power on after the click for some amount of time, or is that possibly going to damage something? Will continue on the path you outlined Don... thanks. | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 701 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228 Rating: N/A |
take the battery cable off the starter & clean with a wire brush ..also at the main disconect ....ATTN: unhook the pos. cable from the battery first..(clean it too,buut leave it disconected while cleaning the bat. cable to the rest of the stuff (Message edited by bob greenwood on February 16, 2007) | ||
| JJ Woden (Jj_woden)
Registered Member Username: Jj_woden Post Number: 18 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 65.19.246.49 Rating: N/A |
Only if it is positive ground. Disconnect the ground cable first and reconnect the ground cable last. Regardless of pos ground or neg ground. No sparks that way. (Ok. Less chance of sparks) JJ | ||
| Steve Krane (Steve_krane)
Registered Member Username: Steve_krane Post Number: 10 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 76.176.6.170 Rating: N/A |
How in the heck do you get to the starter cable connections? Do you have to remove stuff to get access. I looked at it for 5 minutes and didn't see an obvious way. | ||
| Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member Username: Doninwa Post Number: 14 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 65.61.96.82 Rating: N/A |
There is an access panel right above the starter which I hope whoever converted your 4106 planned for. It allows access from inside the coach. It is in the center of the first level of the step-up of the engine hump. So if you have a center bed it is probably under the head of the bed. If you have twin beds it should be between the beds. Fun stuff huh. | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member Username: Pvcces Post Number: 1046 Registered: 5-2001 Posted From: 65.74.69.234 Rating: N/A |
Steve, the 4106 starter is not real bad to remove. If you run the rear of the coach up on some runup blocks about 7 1/2" high, then you can crawl right under the coach and sit up near the engine. You will need the right tools to get the three bolts off, but it is fairly straightforward after that. The top bolt should be a 12 point 9/16" head, and needs a manifold wrench (curved) to get at it. You take it out AFTER loosening it and removing the other two bolts. It's heavy, so don't get yourself a surprise when it comes out of the bell housing. If you take it to anyone to get it rebuilt, make sure that he knows that it is for a left turning engine. Good luck. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| Jim Connelly (Desertbum)
Registered Member Username: Desertbum Post Number: 6 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 207.200.116.13 Rating: N/A |
FWIW My 4106 starter bolts were three 15/16's wrench size. The main battery wires had a 3/4in wrench size two places. I took my starter out the right side of the bus over the auto trans area. I removed two starter nuts while inside the bus at the opening and the lower starter nut was removed from reaching in from the right side. My replacement starter had a defective solenoid and it turned the wrong direction(the starter place said that it was turning in the correct rotation but it wasn't)I had to have them rebuild my old starter and change it again.The owner of the starter/alt shop was sharp but not there when I bought the starter. Not a happy camper that week in Indio, CA | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member Username: Pvcces Post Number: 1050 Registered: 5-2001 Posted From: 65.74.64.246 Rating: N/A |
One more tidbit; our maintenance manual shows the wrong rotation. I checked it and checked it again, and decided that it was just wrong. We found it to be counterclockwise, viewed from the drive end. For what it's worth. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| Steve N. (N4rsn)
Registered Member Username: N4rsn Post Number: 98 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 208.252.179.27 Rating: N/A |
Before you remove the starter, check the ground conection on the left center of the bulkhead. Remove the bolt, and clean the connections. 95% of the time, that is the problem. Just my 2 cents Steve | ||
| Steve Krane (Steve_krane)
Registered Member Username: Steve_krane Post Number: 17 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 76.176.33.74 Rating: N/A |
WHAT IT WAS: I had Bob at HB Industries San Diego look at this. Voltages were good at starter. Solenoid is bad. The starter is being rebuilt today for about $250 + 1 hr labor out (from under the bus as Tom suggested) and 1 hr in. |
