| Author | Message | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 265 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.107.110 Rating: N/A |
To make a long story short (a magnitude of health problems), I've decided to sell (or swap) my MC9 unfinished dream, and buy an already converted (or semi-converted) 4104 (or '06). I realize that to most here, the "hobby" is converting... But to me, the "hobby" was to simply have a reliable RV to travel in.. Yeah, I enjoyed the conversion process, but time is working against me... sooooo..... I know the inherent problems with the Eagle, and the MCIs (and other makes/models), but not about the older '04 and '06s.. I've driven both the '04 and '06s on charters, but never got into the mechanical aspects... (Drivers usually don't double as mechanics).... So.... if anyone can let me know about some of the bad things regarding the 4104 in particular; things like mechanical or structural problems, parts availability, or other nuances that might be things to consider prior to purchase, I'd appreciate it. Mucho' thankso' in advance.. | ||
| Douglas Wotring (Tekebird)
Registered Member Username: Tekebird Post Number: 140 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 71.230.19.74 Rating: N/A |
04: Parts made of unobtanioum or practically unobtanium. 1 Rear windows 2 split frame driver and door glass 3 front marker lenses ( particularly the curb side) check ebay, very nice 04 on there now | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1217 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.195.112.181 Rating: N/A |
John - Here's a couple of good threads from the archives for you to ponder: http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/233/2988.html or http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/233/9932.html FWIW & HTH. . .  | ||
| Nick Badame Refrigeration Co. (Dnick85)
Registered Member Username: Dnick85 Post Number: 93 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 68.45.178.44 Rating: N/A |
John, 4104's.. They look like they are going fast even when they are parked... Simply,the greatest looking bus of all times.. Good Luck John Nick- | ||
| norcal kyle (Kylexisxrad)
Registered Member Username: Kylexisxrad Post Number: 132 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 216.220.208.124 Rating: N/A |
I actually saw that '04 on the eplace yesterday. was it the one in bakersfield? that was one SHARP looking bus. it practically looked new. | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 5 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 67.76.81.123 Rating: N/A |
john, I have a completed 04 here in ocala and it is for sale due to health reasons. may some trading will be in order marvin | ||
| Bob greenwood (Bob_greenwood)
Registered Member Username: Bob_greenwood Post Number: 786 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.136.49.228 Rating: N/A |
The 04 is a nice 35 foot bus....all the GM engines turn the wrong way....a truck 671 WILL NOT WORK....no matter who tells you....they will be runnning when this fat boy is listening to Elvis sing... | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 490 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.117.21 Rating: N/A |
6-71's aren't that hard to reverse rotation, but you need to almost completely disassemble one. | ||
| Bob Symonds (Bob_symonds)
Registered Member Username: Bob_symonds Post Number: 11 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 146.235.66.52 Rating: N/A |
John, I also started an MCI conversion and then due to health issues ended up buying a recently converted 4104. (I still have the MCI and work on it once in a while) I seached the forums before I bought mine and found one of the possible problem areas could be corroded bulkheads. Annoyances with that model are the manual steering and the standard 4 speed transmission. The strong points are a bus that many consider to be the best bus ever built. The systems are simple and straight forward to work on although finding an old timer DD mechanic sometimes is difficult. Mine was clean and uses no oil. On the road I never miss the power steering or the automatic transmission. In the campground I cuss a little but the bus runs like a champ, gets 8 mpg at 68 mph, and is comfortable a hell. Recently I have developed chronic back problems which can put me down for an extended spell. My wife won't drive this bus so I will have to part with it. (or her) I guess it will be the bus. At any rate - good luck in your search. If you are on the east coast and want to take a look at mine contact me via email. Bob | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 158 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 71.125.61.116 Rating: N/A |
Hey John, sorry about the health issues hope they improve. The GM we have has been pretty good the last 10 years. Some of the bearings in the front are pricey and take a day or two to ship.The rear ends are getting hard to find. Not sure about the windshields. It will seem kinda small after your 9 but that can be a good thing. One good thing is that these were built to be rebuilt. We get parts from Deans coach in Durham. Good luck and keep your sense of humour going. Dave and Dori | ||
| Tim Hoskinson (Tdh37514151)
Registered Member Username: Tdh37514151 Post Number: 215 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 4.253.120.160 Rating: N/A |
Hi John I would like to offer a little good and bad on the 4104. first the good. They are easy to drive and if not equiped with power steering it can be added reasonably. In my own opinon they do look good of course I like the older buses. They do have a simple drive line and parts don't really seem to be a big problem to find. Also contrary to what many believe if for some reason you would need to use a truck donor engine as long as it is an A style engine it takes very little to reverse the rotation. I don't really know why that came up but there seems to be a lot of confusion on that matter. the 4104 has good under bay room for a smaller bus and as it is a bit lighter than some of the latter models it gets fairly good fule milage. On the bad side the four speed trans. leaves you a little short on gear ranges while pulling hills. The four speed is also geared a bit high in low gear for maneuvering into tight spots. The clutch can get to your leg when setting in stoped traffic for an extened amount of time. That can be overcome with the use of a air assist clutch attachment. The air beams in the suspension system can develop leaks and from what I am told the early 4104 had aluminum air beams that were known for this problem. The floor of the 4104 is made from coated plywood and if the bus has had long term leakage either from above or from around the wheel tubs where they meet the wood floor the wood will rot so pay attention to soft spots in the floor especially around the wheel tubs. Also look at the brace on the inside of the wheel well that gose down the back side of the step well. They offtend break there. Be sure to look at the bulkhead just ahead of the engine to look for cracking. Well hope this helps and best of luck John I hate to here that you have to give up on your MCI project but hope you can keep on busin anyway... Tim (Message edited by tdh37514151 on March 26, 2007) | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 266 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.108.89 Rating: N/A |
Thanks guys!! I should have dug through the archives first, RJ... Thanks for the links... Although the '06 seems like it'd be a better choice, there seems to be less of them available in a price range I'd like... oh well.. Another question..... I'm looking at a 4104 locally that has all split ring 20" wheels.. I'm told they can be replaced with conventional 22.5 rims and the appropriate size tire... Is that correct? | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 322 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.11 Rating: N/A |
John, I, too, bought mine converted. I'm too old to take years to convert one, I want to drive and enjoy it while I can. I agree with most said in the string, but not all. There should be a big supply of 671s around because so many people seem to think they need to be replaced with an 8V71 and AT. 671s are stone simple and easy to maintain. A good one will last a lifetime on a conversion. Don't know why this subject was even brought up?? It is the last all aluminum GM bus, minimum rust problems, light weight and very maneuverable. Be sure to get one with power assist or full power steering for close quarters maneuvering. All the remarks about the four speed low are true, you just have to work around it. I have 22.5 tires/wheels, they are interchangeable. The manual clutch is not bad if it is adjusted properly and the linkage is in good condition. I spent a lot of time on this and was rewarded with a nice clutch-air assist would be nice but not necessary. Just think of all those little guys who drove them in the '50s. There is a nice looking one for sale in Bus Conversions Magazine in Ark at a reasonable price. This bus is economical to own and FUN!! | ||
| Nick Badame Refrigeration Co. (Dnick85)
Registered Member Username: Dnick85 Post Number: 94 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 68.45.178.44 Rating: N/A |
Hay John, Gus is correct. Actually there is 1 4104 and 3 4106's listed in Bus Conversions Mag. Link http://busconversions.com/classifieds.htm [I@N, Please delete this if it intrudes on your site] Nick- | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 267 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.108.89 Rating: N/A |
Gus - I didn't find the '04 or '06 clutch to be any different than the ones in the fishbowls, Eagles or MCIs that I ever drove. They're all tough on the lower back when you're 5'4"... The '04s that I drove never were a problem in tight spots, and NYC charters were the norm... Ya' just have to nudge the clutch and keep the tire moving a bit, to make it seem like power steering... That aside.... Do the 22.5s change the indicated speed all that much, or did your bus have them on when purchased? | ||
| Mike Eades (Mike4905)
Registered Member Username: Mike4905 Post Number: 147 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 68.207.200.143 Rating: N/A |
John Send me an email address and I will send you some pictures to look at. My email is meades-sr@tampabay.rr.com | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1219 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.195.112.181 Rating: N/A |
John - I've covered this topic several times before, but will repeat it again: Regardless of whether you use 22.5 or 24.5 wheels to replace the split 20s, the magic number you should be more concerned with is 495 tire revs per mile. This is the number that the powertrain engineers designed the 4104 around. (Actually, it goes back to the Yellow Coach 719s, the first of the V-Drive highway coaches, but I digress.) If you can find a tire/wheel combo that equals 495, then you'll get OEM performance out of the coach (be it an '04 or an '06, both are the same). If you find a combo that turns MORE revs/mile than 495, your fuel mileage will suffer slightly, your top speed will suffer slightly, but your hill-climbing and initial start-up will improve slightly. If you find a combo that turns LESS revs/mile, you'll have the opposite. Your choice, just keep 495 in mind when you go shopping. Oh, and I suggest, for safety reasons, you also replace the wheel studs and nuts at the same time, and have them torqued to the proper specs with a torque wrench, not with a burp gun. FWIW & HTH. . . | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 331 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.32 Rating: N/A |
John, I installed the tires after I got the bus but couldn't tell any difference except for the much better ride because I changed only the fronts. The 22.5 is almost exactly the same outside diameter as the original 20 inch tires and is a direct replacement. The 22.5 number is to show that it is a tubeless tire. Maybe the reason the clutch doesn't bother me is because I only use if when starting out, never while under way. An old habit from driving an 18 wheeler. If you drive a bus every day all day that would make a big difference. I spent many hours rebuilding all the clutch and shift linkage, mostly the bellcrank and rod ends/pins, they were all badly worn and the clutch rod ends were almost worn through! They probably had never been replaced and that causes many inches of slop in the linkage. This makes it impossible to properly adjust the clutch. My 4104 has hyd boost steering which makes it very nice in close quarters at low speed. It has no effect on the highway when the wheel is turned very little. | ||
| David B. Sweet (Sweets4104)
Registered Member Username: Sweets4104 Post Number: 2 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 64.136.27.226 Rating: N/A |
The clutch situation is easy remedy, proper set up and adjustment by DA Book. We added a mouse trap, built by a good friend, it helps a lot for a short guy with an arthritic hip and knee. Our '04 rides great and is very easy to drive, stight spaces are a bit of a problem though but, with a little practice ti gets easier. | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 270 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.108.47 Rating: N/A |
RJ - Re: "the magic number you should be more concerned with is 495 tire revs per mile. " Good grief. Pie are round! My head's killin' me now..... There's got to be a cheat-sheet for those magic numbers, ehh? Thanks for the thoughts on the studs/nuts! Gus - What size tires are you using on those 22.5 rims? | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 499 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.117.21 Rating: N/A |
Sheppard power steering, turbo on engine, air dryer, 1200 R22.5 Michelins, air assist clutch Less than 1 inch play in steering. How sweet it is! ( on mine, at least) | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1222 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.195.112.181 Rating: N/A |
John - All of your tire manufacturers have the revs/mile data available, either on the website or in a book at the dealer. It was just posted on another thread that someone found a range of revs/mile for the same size tire, depending on the model. Just shop with the magic number 495 in mind, and you'll do OK, regardless of whether you use 11R22.5, 12R22.5, 318/80R22.5, 11R24.5, etc. The 4104/6 is light enough than any of the above sizes are satisfactory. David - Mr. Carroll got that mousetrap working for you, eh? How/where did he mount it? Got any pics? Would like to see his handiwork, especially since I loaned him a spare from an '06 as a model. . . FWIW & HTH. . . | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 336 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.40 Rating: N/A |
John I'm using Toyo 1100R22.5, a regular truck steer tire and I really like them. Good price and readily available almost anywhere truck tires are sold. |