| Author | Message | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 30 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 208.181.100.8 Rating: N/A |
coulsd anyone e-mail me the drawing for a leveling system. i have the kit with 4 gauges and air valves but no drawing as the fellow that i got it from did now know where he had put it years ago. thanks for any help , mel 4104 | ||
| Bob Ayers (Califbob)
Registered Member Username: Califbob Post Number: 35 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 4.243.110.53 Rating: N/A |
Mel You say "I have a kit with 4 gauges".You only need three!!!Do not set up your front end to level right to left. You just want the front to level up and down. You can twist the whole bus.Lets say you drop the left rear and raised the right front serious damage can happen.Hooking up the system is a slam dunk. I don't have the program to send pictures. | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 560 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.1.180.218 Rating: N/A |
Are the valves manual or electric?. Does this system replace the OEM levling valves or leave them for "on road" use? The system we had on our 4106 back in the mid 80's was purchased from a gentleman in Indiana named Red Rideout. It had manual valves and gauges and also had a "Shuttle valve" to switch between the OEM leveling valves and the manual valves. Our kit included 4 vavles and 4 gauges. we never had any problems, BUT we rarely parked very much out of level. We also have a 4 corner leveling system on our current bus, an MC-8. As mentioned, we rarely park very far out of level. I do agree that the 3 point is probably less likely to cause any problems. Jack (Message edited by JackConrad on May 01, 2007) | ||
| RJmule (Rjmule)
Registered Member Username: Rjmule Post Number: 67 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 75.51.71.238 Rating: N/A |
Hello All, Not to take away from original post but was wondering how long air bags should stay inflated once coach is turned off. Thanks, RJmule | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 562 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.1.180.218 Rating: N/A |
This will vary. If the rest of your system leaks down, the air bags will lose pressure quicker. anytime the coach moves (from people entering & exiting, wind rocking the coach, etc), the leveling valve may open to allow more air, if there is no pressure in the rest of the system, air will leave the airbags. With our leveling valves shut off, our stays up for weeks. Prior to adding the valves to shut-off the OEM leveling valves, it would leak down in a day or 2 if we were in & out of ther bus a lot. Many times the leveling valves will leak also, and need repalced. Jack | ||
| RJmule (Rjmule)
Registered Member Username: Rjmule Post Number: 68 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 75.51.71.238 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Jack, Apparently my MCI-9 is leaking way too fast. Normally within 12 Hrs. | ||
| Ricky D. West (Gg04)
Registered Member Username: Gg04 Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 74.241.193.127 Rating: N/A |
Couldn't live without 4 point...where we are at at the moment rf 25 lf 5 rr 62 lr 42...dead level...would not work with 3 point.... | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 563 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.1.180.218 Rating: N/A |
"Thanks Jack, Apparently my MCI-9 is leaking way too fast. Normally within 12 Hrs." If you have a shop air compressor, air up the bus, block up the bus, get a spray bottle and start spraying air bags, fittings, valves, and airlines. Probably a lot of little leaks rather than 1 big leak. Not sure if you MC-9 has air beams or rolling lobe bair bags. If you have air beams, the leaks could be from rusted through air beams. If that is the case, you can install block0off plates or rolling lobe air bags. If you have rolling lobe air bags, the air beams are eliminated as a possible source of your air leak. Jack | ||
| Chuck Lott (Chuckmc8)
Registered Member Username: Chuckmc8 Post Number: 225 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 68.219.165.202 Rating: N/A |
Mule, On most retired coaches that are being converted for RV use, the air leveling valves should be changed as a maintenance item. Most havent had the valves changed in a long time since the coach leaking down over a 12 hour period isnt a big deal if youre hauling passengers. IIRC, the right rear and fron valve is the same 12C-6-1 and the other rear is 12C-6-2. My Mohawk catalogue is a few years old, but they were right at $45 each from Mohawk 1-800-323-7652. Ask them which you need two of. One bummer, tho, my MC8 used to leak out the front leveling valve and the front settle down about the same rate as yours, making an easy step inside. After replacing the valve, it is alwas the same big step to get inside. I guess I need the manual leveling setup also- HTH Chuck | ||
| JR Lynch (Njt5047)
Registered Member Username: Njt5047 Post Number: 154 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.132.226.200 Rating: N/A |
FWIW, a couple of points...a 3 point leveling system will work the same as a 4 point. The only difference is that the rear leveling valves are setting lateral height to the drive axle. With 4 point, twisting the bus body is the only way to change that situation. MCIs have 3 point leveling from the factory. Regarding air bags staying up...my old airbags would leak down within 12 hours, and most "vintage" coaches will do the same. I isolated the air bags from the rest of the air system when parked, and they still leaked down in 24 hours. Changed the steering axle and drive axle airbags out and the bus will stay where it's set for months. If the airbeams are tight (96A3 doesn't have air beams), new airbags and isolating them will solve a host of problems. Bus will air up from zero quite a bit quicker too. Bus airbags have limited leveling capacity. Still, the ability to level with airbags is handy. When leveling, I never let all of the air out of the front airbags, so as to keep the body off the stops. Keeps from twisting the bus. And it will twist. I will let it all out if parked on level ground. I would suggest, as has been mentioned, keeping the capacity to use the OEM leveling valves when traveling. I use the rear, but the front is manually controlled. Don't even have a front leveling valve. The tags can be ignored when leveling. They are regulated to stay at 35lbs, and they will compensate, or deflate as the bus air leaks off. Regarding a schematic of the install of manual leveling systems..have you tried googling "bus leveling system"? I've seen diagrams of manual systems on websites. Best, JR | ||
| Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member Username: Doninwa Post Number: 27 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 65.61.96.82 Rating: N/A |
So if the bus leaks down to the stops (many do) and is not on perfectly level ground (almost never) it twists the body? If I jack up any corner of the bus am I twisting the body if the bags are deflated? When you are rocking and rolling going down some of those less than perfect roads can the front airbags equalize though the air lines as fast as the bus rocks. Isn't it twisting force on the body that pushes the air from one front bag to another? Just how much does it take to damage a coach by twisting. MCI, GM, Eagle, Prevost? What are the signs of damage from twisting? Are some brands more or less prone to twist damage? Don 4107 (Hopelessly twisted!)  | ||
| James Stacy (Jimstacy)
Registered Member Username: Jimstacy Post Number: 43 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.41.0.176 Rating: N/A |
You can twist an Eagle by grossly maladjusting the torsion bars and leaving for a long time but I doubt it is possible to do with air bag suspension. Does anyone believe the bus is always on a perfectly level site? The original system drives the side to side level with the rear bags. Talk about twisting! The most trouble free system is 4 valves and guages and no leveling valves. An RV doesn't have 30 people getting on and off at every stop. After the leaks are gone you will rarely need to touch the valves. Once you have set each bag for "book ride height" you have a guage reference to return to after the rare occasion of manually leveling. . Kids bubble soap in a spray bottle seems to work the best for leak detection. My old 4104 easily makes 6 months without a change in level. It was that way with the convoluted OEM bags and plates to isolate the air beam and it is trouble free with the new rolling lobe bags. IMHO good air bag control requires searching out the small leaks and getting rid of the troublesome leveling valves. The whole original leveling system was designed for changing loads and engine running at all times neither of which you have in an RV application. Struggling to keep the leveling valves with a manual leveling system is overkill. If the suspension doesn't leak, the leveling valves aren't needed. Getting rid of the leveling valves is the first major step to eliminating leaks. They will leak sooner or later since they were designed to work with the engine running and not to hold air indefinately. Small leaks are not a problem with a constant source of air. They are a pain with a parked vehicle. Keep it simple. Don't make this a big deal. Jim Stacy | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 138 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.240.213.160 Rating: N/A |
Whew..........am I ever glad I drive a Crown. Full chassis (Beams) front to back....albeit, same "problems" with air bags. As I recall, the last valve I purchased for the tanks was in the $5-7 area. FWIW RCB '64 Crown Supercoach (HWC) | ||
| JR Lynch (Njt5047)
Registered Member Username: Njt5047 Post Number: 156 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.132.226.200 Rating: N/A |
Can't speak to Prevost or Eagle, but it's doubtful that an MCI body would twist much while "rocking" down the road. The motion is really slow. The air can transfer between the front airbags, faster than the rear leveling valves can compensate. So the side to side rocking motion is more a result of air compressing in the air suspension than twisting of the bus body. Twist an MCI and the windshields move in the frame. Park an old platform MCI (8,9,96 and 102A3) and let the air out and look at the windshield mask. It'll be misaligned. I've seen the some MCIs with daylight between the mask and gsket when parked on the stops with one corner down or up. Maybe no permanent damage, but makes keeping the windshields leak-free a little difficult. Keeping the leveling valves functional in the system isn't all that complicated. I'll agree that using the manual "4" gauge system will be more complicated using the leveling valves. However, an electro/solenoid system such as Pete "RTS" builds will work with the factory leveling valves...also avoids hundreds of feet of DOT tubing running to the drive axle and steering air bags. Regarding jacking a bus...I wouldn't jack one corner of a coach on the stops...may not really hurt anything, but there ain't hardly room to get a jack under a flat MCI...not sure about the others. Well, I suppose an Eagle won't settle too much sans air...? Aftermarket manual air leveling systems should have a regulated air supply. This will protect against gross overinflation of the air bags. Could use one of the regulators that protect the existing OEM leveling system if you don't wish to keep the factory leveling function. JR | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 537 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.117.21 Rating: N/A |
Mel, does your system use 4 gauges, a selector valve for highway or leveling and 4 push-pull valves, and four bendix check valves ( one of which is mounted by each leveling valve or air bag? | ||
| Jerry Campbell (Jerrync)
Registered Member Username: Jerrync Post Number: 71 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.132.150.103 Rating: N/A |
If you are looking for one of these sys. I have one that would like to sale | ||
| Ron Walker (Prevost82)
Registered Member Username: Prevost82 Post Number: 289 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.181.210.47 Rating: N/A |
I have a 3 point system in my Prevost. I have ceramic tile in the bathrm and have driven some crappy roads in mex, usa and canada. Never had any problem with twisting going down the road all the tile are as new. I would say with a 3 point system the bus frame is rigid enough that is doesn't twist that much going down the road. | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 33 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 208.181.100.59 Rating: N/A |
John it has 4 gauges joined to 4 push pull valves, by the look of them they are ment to be joined together with a 4 out let air manifold other than that i will have to scratch the old head for a while to figure it out, and thanks for the help.mel | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 34 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 208.181.100.15 Rating: N/A |
John it has 4 gauges joined to 4 push pull valves, by the look of them they are ment to be joined together with a 4 out let air manifold other than that i will have to scratch the old head for a while to figure it out, and thanks for the help.mel | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 546 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.117.21 Rating: N/A |
sounds like the one HB industries sell. check them for a diagram. | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 37 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 208.181.100.27 Rating: N/A |
John , could you tell who they are and how to locate such as phone #,town, state, thatnks for the help. mel 4104 | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 550 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.117.21 Rating: N/A |
type in HB Industries on your search bar. Everything is on their site. |