| Author | Message | ||
| mark (Coolbus)
Registered Member Username: Coolbus Post Number: 45 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 71.54.203.149 Rating: N/A |
I am curious about the 5 speed transmissions in some of the older busses (I found an older Prevost for sale) How is the gear ratio? I had sorta ruled out a 4 speed bus, as I want to be able to do things / go places that would be unpractial with a 4sp ( I don't like the TALL gear in reverse; and I live in a hilly part of the country) Do the 5sp trannys also use 2nd gear for reverse? Are there any similarities or differences? pro's? con's? I am not trying to compare a 5sp to an automatic; just to a 4sp! thanks! Mark | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Registered Member Username: Chucks Post Number: 1108 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.2.91.128 Rating: N/A |
I have the Fuller 5-spd, and while reverse is taller than first, I don't think the ratio is nearly as high as second gear, but I'm not the expert. I wish reverse was like first, and don't understand why, but it's not too heinous. Mine's geared at 4.11, so that helps around the CG, but is unfortunate for the highway. I can do a DTS in my sleep with that ratio. Actually, I *always* do a DTS. | ||
| JC Alacoque (Jc_alacoque)
Registered Member Username: Jc_alacoque Post Number: 31 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 154.11.98.45 Rating: N/A |
Mark, don't rule out 4 speed busses. A lot of good busses had 4 speed boxes: MC5s and 7s. I used to drive them in the seventies. They had 8V71s and they are a good combination. We used to drive them all over the Rockies and Western Canada. In tight spots and steep hills too. Once you get used to shifting the straight cut, you'll be fine. Sure it slowed down up the hills, but what didn't? Once in a while reverse would not engage. It was usually the solenoid. Now I have a 57 MCI Courier 96 with a 5 speed Spicer (syncro). 1st and reverse are geared fairly low, which is nice. It is stiff getting from 1st to 2nd. I still shift it like a straight cut (double clutch) because it makes it easier. Given a choice, I would prefer the 4 speed. The 102D3 I drive for the hockey team has a 7 speed Fuller mated to a Series 60 DD. Now that is so nice. But getting one of those for a conversion would cost a lot of $$ The above is my personal, subjective opinion. Other guys will tell you different. Whatever you get, you get used to and enjoy it. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 558 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.117.21 Rating: N/A |
I beleive a lot of Prevost's and Eagles used Fuller transmissions and or easier to install a different model with more speeds with different ratios to suit your use. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 150 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.81.59 Rating: N/A |
Mark, As JC says, you will get different opinions. Also, note his comment on the seven speed. First off, the 4 speeds don't use second GEAR for reverse, only the shift linkage position. Secondly all of the buses made with four speeds were meant to be driven by a "professional-paid" driver, in over-the-road service. So, they didn't spend a nickel extra making the bus driver friendly, or able to climb a hill better due to more gears, with less ratio difference between them. Evidently, they didn't care about clutch life, and the drivers didn't have to maneuver them in campgrounds. There was a post on here a while back which read something like "This was the trans that took Trailways everywhere for 20 years!" Well, that sure is true, BUT IT DOESN'T MAKE IT ANY GOOD! A four speed transmission coupled to a 2100 RPM engine is a joke. I am qualified to speak, I have one in my bus, and I am in the process of spending at least $6000 to change it out. (An engine change is required due to the length of an automatic.) What is the solution? IMNSHO, a Spicer 1063C. Six forward speeds, top 5 synchro, a nice low low, and reverse uses low! These trannnys are sold in a 1062 series also, and I don't know the difference between them. The following letter, A B or C indicates the gear ratios. The 10 indicates they are rated for 1000 ft/lbs of torque. Someone here had a 1062 for sale, look in the fleas. These 1062/3 are good, and available cheap. They are the same length as an 8844, only wider due to twin countershafts. The only down side to them, (or any other trans) is the necessity to convert to a single rod shift, and I'm pretty sure, a flywheel change. George | ||
| larry currier (Larryc)
Registered Member Username: Larryc Post Number: 102 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 64.12.116.203 Rating: N/A |
Wow George. Allison built so many 4 speeds. Even 3 speeds and 2 speeds.....All just jokes! Or do you like them because you don't have to be smart to drive one? The 4 speed manual takes some time to master. How many speeds is your new automatic? | ||
| Mark Renner (Boomer)
Registered Member Username: Boomer Post Number: 70 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 12.180.53.193 Rating: N/A |
The difference between a 1062B and a 1064B is that the 1064 is aluminum case. Everything else, including ratios is identical. Great transmissions. A dream to drive. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 153 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.80.150 Rating: N/A |
Larry, The new automatic is a 740, it would have been a 754, but there isn't enough room. The changeout also involves an 8V92 in place of the 12V71, to make just enough room for a 740. There isn't enough wallet for a B500 either. I feel you have missed the point, as I was talking about four speed STICKS. The second part of my point was that there were good, durable, six-speed synchronized transmissions available at the time, which would have made a tremendous improvement in the driveability of the bus. Said transmissions can be installed in place of an 8844, as they are the same length. A 1063 will fit in an MC6 with a V12, Sparkman's bus in Grant's Pass Oregon, I have seen it! I have put over 30,000 miles on this bus since I bought it, it has been over the Siskyous, the Cascades, the Grapevine, several roundtrips between Sacramento and Lake Powell, all with ice chests, sleeping bags, and a porta potti before the conversion started. (The OTR air works.) It was also my moving van from Santa Ynez to Auburn. A Shopsmith fits in the back bay, as does a household refrigerator on one side, with the shelf out. This bus has the power, final gear ratio, and tire size to go at least 90 mph. You can hear the power steering pump thru the servo, and the whine at top governed speed, 53 in 3rd, is lower than the pitch at 85 in 4th, and that's as fast as I want to go on 30 year old tires! The problem is that this bus will go 18 mph in FIRST, and starting 33,000 lbs with that ratio and that much torque, requires a careful power application and clutch slippage, or something breaks. "Dead throttle starts" are absolutely out of the question. Wait until you are in Lake Cachuma with your friend and 30 members of his church group in his VS2 fishbowl, which was backed in to a downhill space. Two days later, 29 of us had to get out and push, to get it started up the hill. VS2s are fine in city transit service, but not in steep mountains. Some bus owners like driving an 8844, BECAUSE THEY CAN, (If you get my drift.) Please look at the post a day and a half after yours, I feel it says it all. The beauty of owning a bus is that we can all do what we want with it. I happen to want a bus that my wife can drive, (when I get one!) George | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 112 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
George Thirty year old tires ? please elaborate. Joe. | ||
| David (Davidinwilmnc)
Registered Member Username: Davidinwilmnc Post Number: 167 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 152.20.216.103 Rating: N/A |
Out of curiosity, what 5-speed (manual) did MCI use in the manual -9's? Were they also non-synchronized? I've seen a few that have a standard 5-speed shift pattern without the reverse solenoid. I'm sure there wouldn't be a whole lot of benefit to replacing the 4-speed in my MC-8 with one of those, but those 6-speeds sound nice. I imagine there would be a lot of work involved to get the linkage worked out. David | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1237 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.161.137 Rating: N/A |
David - The five speed MCI installed in some of their coaches is a Fuller, but I can't remember the model number. The four-speed is a Spicer 8844. FWIW & HTH. . .  | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 157 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.81.59 Rating: N/A |
Joe, The 100 MC6s were all made with 13.5 X 24.5 bias ply tires, and a somewhat unique lug pattern on the drive and steering axles. The tags are standard 12.5 X 22.5 tires and wheels. The spare is for the drive and steers, there are seperate manual valves located above each tag to unload them in case of a flat or loss of traction in snow. These is also a hook on the frame so that the tag can be jacked up with a little bottle jack, and chained up to get to a tire store? To answer your question, I may have exaggerated a few years, but not many. AfaIk, these tires were made only by Goodyear and Firestone, and haven't been made for at least 25 years. Much rumor surrounded Greyhound having some in stock 10 or 15 years ago, but it was unfounded. These wheels and tires have been replaced with everything from 1100 22s to 385R 22.5s, that I know of. The bolt pattern looks like an old Mack with Budd wheels... I am lucky, I have a spare, and have never had to use it. Concurrent with the repower comes 385R22.5s, as I don't want a tread seperation destroying a bunch of irreplaceable sheet metal. George | ||
| Mark Renner (Boomer)
Registered Member Username: Boomer Post Number: 71 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 12.180.53.193 Rating: N/A |
RJLong MCI had available as an option on MC-9's two different models of the Fuller 5 speed; the T-11605D and model T-11605F. The T-11605F was a spec option commonly used with the 3:33 or 3:85 axle ratios. 1st thru 4th had lower ratios than the 11605D. Both are of course twin countershaft. Just a little trivia for old bus lovers out there. |