| Author |
Message |
Laryn Christley (Barn_owl)
Registered Member
Username: Barn_owl
Post Number: 22
Registered: 10-2006
Posted From: 72.66.181.219
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 7:06 pm: | |
We are leaving on vacation in a week and I took the bus on a one night shake-down and everything went great. I got home and was working on some odds and ends, restarted the bus, and now the generator light will not go out. I am at a loss to where even to start. Does anyone have an idea how to troubleshoot this? My anxiety level has just hit an all-time high.
Thanks in advance. |
Laryn Christley (Barn_owl)
Registered Member
Username: Barn_owl
Post Number: 23
Registered: 10-2006
Posted From: 72.66.181.219
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 7:40 pm: | |
I am reading the maintenance manual. I am hoping for further light and knowledge from my bus-nut friends. |
Gary Pasternak (Cessna5354)
Registered Member
Username: Cessna5354
Post Number: 24
Registered: 2-2007
Posted From: 152.163.100.13
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 8:00 pm: | |
I am not going to be much help here, but I feel for you. However, is the belt slipping?? Have you measured the voltage output of the generator? That would be the two places that I would look first, intuitively. Stuff happens and for a reason. Also what was the last thing you may have serviced in proximity of the generator. My big clumbsy (sp) hands, self can disconnect wires etc...
Hope you correct your problem.
GP |
john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member
Username: Chessie4905
Post Number: 562
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 71.58.117.21
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 8:40 pm: | |
You spoke of some odds and ends? were they bus related? since they were the last thing you did if it was bus related, I'd check there. Does the 06 have a circuit breaker near the voltage regulator? Loose wires at alt or reg?, maybe gently tap on regulator, maybe trying a large electric load to see if it then kicks in. Did you try driving up the road and back, or just let it set and idle? |
Dan West (Utahclaimjumper)
Registered Member
Username: Utahclaimjumper
Post Number: 42
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 208.66.39.51
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 9:28 pm: | |
Your 06 has a gear driven alternator, so no belts. Look at the end of the alt. where the wires are, pay attention to the field wire (its the smallest dia.) then go to the regulator, three wires there to be checked. if this all checks then start the engine and turn on all lights and loads, see what happens. If the light goes out then no problem, Many times if you drive in daylight all the time the system over charges and you should turn down the regulator. I had to adjust mine down to 13.6 with a meter to prevent the same thing.>>>Dan |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member
Username: Pvcces
Post Number: 1089
Registered: 5-2001
Posted From: 65.74.65.197
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 10:04 pm: | |
Laryn, do you know if you have the sensing relay? We do and it's been troublesome enough that I have had to clean the contacts a number of times.
The sensing relay should be mounted near the voltage regulator; it's what turns on the regulator. Until it does that, you won't get any output from the alternator.
I have noticed that when the sensing relay needs the contacts dressed that the generator light flashes on and off until the coach has been driven awhile.
When the contacts are dressed, the generator starts right up after revving up the engine.
Good luck with your generator.
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher
Ketchikan, Alaska |
Leslie Robinson (Lesrmc9)
Registered Member
Username: Lesrmc9
Post Number: 62
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 205.250.196.31
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 10:14 pm: | |
start your engine again, if gen light comes on, turn on your head lights AND maybe the defroster fan, if light goes out nothing to worry about.
This same thing happened to me when i purchased my coach, from Indiana to BC Canada, one day light came on as we were to start that days journey, did not have time to stop and investigate, hit some bad weather turned on head lights and YAHOO gen light went off!!!! I later found out this is common if your batterys are full the reg doesn't turn the gen on therefor NO GEN :-) |
Leslie Robinson (Lesrmc9)
Registered Member
Username: Lesrmc9
Post Number: 63
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 205.250.196.31
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 10:21 pm: | |
Tom was posting as I was writing; try mine first should that not work then try Tom's method |
Laryn Christley (Barn_owl)
Registered Member
Username: Barn_owl
Post Number: 24
Registered: 10-2006
Posted From: 72.66.181.219
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 20, 2007 - 1:00 am: | |
I want to thank everyone who is trying to help me with this problem. I know it is very hard to do much with no more information than I gave, not to mention the fact that you don’t have the bus in front of you.
So here is an update:
I found a relay that is not in the drawings. It is connected to the regulator and I don’t know what it is for or why it was added. If anyone has any ideas have at it. It becomes active when the starter button is pressed and then it releases (I think). It is hard to push starter buttons and try to figure out what is happening on the other side of the bus. I posted the photo of this mystery relay on the MAK board because I Don’t know how to do it here.
The starter/generator relay seems to be functional. The book says to check the generator field input for voltage and if none is found, start looking at the generator for the problem. That input voltage was not there.
Sometimes during this the starter switch would have to be pressed several times (nothing happening) before it would take and start (not sure if it is related to the gen problem because it would start and not generate). I went through and cleaned all connection points a month ago in preparation for summer travels and haven’t seen or had a problem. (From battery to starter, solenoid, etc.)
Batteries are full charge.
Now to make matters more difficult all of a sudden the problem vanished. Everything is working fine now. How am I going to find that kind of gremlin I don’t know. I will have to wait for it to happen again, but it would be my luck it will happen right in the middle of my vacation. Then it will not magically disappear and let me go home. To make matters worse, I will not have access to a computer to ask for help troubleshooting this problem.
Wow, you guys have some great ideas, I feel that the book doesn’t give me what I need at my skill level. I would have never thought of those possibilities. It will defiantly give me a new approach when it happens again.
Again thank you all for taking the time to respond. I have a feeling I will be dealing with it again soon enough. |
Laryn Christley (Barn_owl)
Registered Member
Username: Barn_owl
Post Number: 25
Registered: 10-2006
Posted From: 72.66.181.219
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 20, 2007 - 1:18 am: | |
Except for some minor modifications I did a cut and paste job on my most recent response. Tom, you mentioned a sensing relay, and it sounds like the mystery relay I was talking about. I wish I knew how to post a photo here so that you could see if that is what I have. I you can go here and look at it:
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=4226.0
So it starting to sound like this might be a familiar problem to 4106 owners, I did all daytime driving an am wondering if I was overcharged.
Thanks so very much, I could not do this hobby without you all.
Would any of you GM owners be willing to let me have a phone number that I could use in an emergency troubleshooting situation? I would only use it if absolutely desperate; I promise not to abuse that privilege if you choose to give it to me.
I will post an update if there are any changes.
Laryn Christley |
John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member
Username: John_mc9
Post Number: 330
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 68.205.158.177
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 20, 2007 - 1:19 am: | |
I would remove all ground straps (chassis, engine, battery) and
clean the hell out of the surfaces, then remount the straps (cables).
It sounds like you may have an intermittent ground connection.
(The engine to chassis ground is important!) |
Laryn Christley (Barn_owl)
Registered Member
Username: Barn_owl
Post Number: 26
Registered: 10-2006
Posted From: 72.66.181.219
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 20, 2007 - 1:32 am: | |
I cleaned all connections but the engine ground. That’s on the check list now.
Thanks |
Justin Griffith (Justin25taylor)
Registered Member
Username: Justin25taylor
Post Number: 16
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 166.214.187.216
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 20, 2007 - 4:08 am: | |
512-695-5849. I will do my best to help if you have trouble on the road.
Good Luck.
Best,
Justin |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member
Username: Drivingmisslazy
Post Number: 1904
Registered: 1-2001
Posted From: 75.108.83.110
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 20, 2007 - 8:17 am: | |
Eemergency help Assist list here:
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=2840.0
Richard |
Laryn Christley (Barn_owl)
Registered Member
Username: Barn_owl
Post Number: 27
Registered: 10-2006
Posted From: 72.66.181.219
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 7:22 am: | |
I want to thank those who have been so generous in giving me their phone numbers. I hope I will not have to use any of them, but they will be nice to have if stuck on the side of the road. I have defiantly regained my composure and am excited again to hit the road. As good as the book is, I am finding out it doesn’t cover every possible scenario. I couldn’t do this hobby without all of your help.
Thanks Again,
Laryn Christley |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member
Username: Drivingmisslazy
Post Number: 1905
Registered: 1-2001
Posted From: 75.108.83.110
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 9:59 am: | |
For those of you who provided you number to Laryn, please add it to the Emergency Help Link I posted if you do not mind it being posted on the board.
Richard |
Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member
Username: Gusc
Post Number: 360
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 71.112.176.74
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 12:02 am: | |
Laryn,
This may be related and may not. My 4104 has a belt driven 160 amp truck alternator replacing the original direct drive gen.
Often, mostly always, the voltmeter will not show a charge until I have driven 10-30 miles. The first time this happened well into our first trip I had heart failure but now it doesn't bother me because I expect it. Sometimes starting the house gen will kick it on sooner and sometimes turning on the original bus blower motor will kick it on, but mostly I just have to wait for those first few miles.
Once it stalled on me in traffic and I had to get out and hook up the house batteries to get it restarted. Soon after that it started generating again and had the batteries fully charged in no time.
My only guess for the reason for this weird behavior is that the bus DC load is so low that the batteries are too charged to kick in the regulator. 160 amp is far too big in my opinion and I am thinking of installing a 60-80 amp alternator. |
George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member
Username: George_mc6
Post Number: 154
Registered: 8-2006
Posted From: 207.231.81.59
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 12:41 am: | |
Gus,
The problem is definitely not the size of the alternator. Something is either loose or dirty in the voltage regulator/not gen relay. It is tough to diagnose one like this from afar, because it is not stock, but think back for a minute. "Once it stalled on me in traffic, and I had to get out and hook up the house batteries..." Obviously your starting batteries were VERY low at that point, and your alt was not charging. If yours is NOT a "one wire alternator," the regulator + battery terminal MUST be powered by the master switch, (and be dead when the master is off.) Check for a loose wire anywhere between front and back. Check the ground wire from the reg to the frame.
Normal eng running operation should show 14 Volts on the + reg term to ground, and a couple of volts on the field terminal, at both the alt and reg. If you have essentially nothing on the reg batt term, your problem is somewhere from there forward. If you have 12 on the reg batt term, and no charge, look at the field terms. 12V at the reg field term, and nothing at the alt field term= loose wire inbetween. 12V at the alt field term= the regulator screaming for output and not getting it=worn brushes in the alt? I won't ask how long since they've been checked.
Try all of this, and report back, please.
George |
Jim Wilke (Pd41044039)
Registered Member
Username: Pd41044039
Post Number: 143
Registered: 2-2001
Posted From: 69.77.144.142
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 7:23 am: | |
The big gear driven alternator does not have any brushes. It is brushless like a large AC generator. (I believe this is a "50DN" alternator.) |