| Author | Message | ||
| Daniel Ringleka (Armytrkdrvr)
Registered Member Username: Armytrkdrvr Post Number: 1 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 195.34.87.157 Rating: N/A |
Hello all, My family and I are going to be moving to Germany in about one year. I have always thought that one of those double-decker buses would make a fantastic conversion. We will likely only be in Europe for 3-6 years before moving back stateside. My question is does anyone know where I would even begin to start looking for rules and regulations pertaining to the prospect of shipping one of these over to the States, and what types of modifications ie: glass, exhaust, etc. that would have to be performed beforehand? Any and all suggestions are greatly appreciated. SGT Dan Ringleka | ||
| larry currier (Larryc)
Registered Member Username: Larryc Post Number: 121 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 64.12.116.203 Rating: N/A |
Sarg, sounds cool to me. Probably ship it home just like your car. Fill out the paper work and see what happens! I would not ship into Cal for the obvious reasons. If the conversion is started you probably don't need any physical changes. List it as a personal vehicle. It has to be under 14 feet high, less than 8'6" wide, and under 45 feet overall. It should not be alot different than buying and returning home with an motorhome from Canada. Keep them trucks rollin Brother, everyone at my place supports you all 100 percent. | ||
| Ed Jewett (Kristinsgrandpa)
Registered Member Username: Kristinsgrandpa Post Number: 320 Registered: 2-2003 Posted From: 64.24.209.24 Rating: N/A |
Daniel, vehicle height, width, and length regulations vary state to state. For a complete (?) listing try this link: http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm It would be a shame to unload it and not be able to remove it from the docks for height restrictions. Ed | ||
| clark lane (Bus05eagle)
Registered Member Username: Bus05eagle Post Number: 15 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 74.33.37.119 Rating: N/A |
Vegas has alot of double deckers now wait a while and you won't have import | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 138 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 69.143.43.3 Rating: N/A |
Larry Currier wrote "Sarg, sounds cool to me. Probably ship it home just like your car. Fill out the paper work and see what happens! I would not ship into Cal for the obvious reasons. If the conversion is started you probably don't need any physical changes. List it as a personal vehicle. It has to be under 14 feet high, less than 8'6" wide, and under 45 feet overall. It should not be alot different than buying and returning home with an motorhome from Canada. " I don't think that I could have written as much bad advice if I'd tried. When was the last time you imported one, Larry? It must have been in the last 2 years because much must have changed since I imported mine. SGT, don't follow one word of this advice. And bless you and all your brothers ... | ||
| Phil Dumpster (Phil_dumpster)
Registered Member Username: Phil_dumpster Post Number: 19 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 71.112.107.234 Rating: N/A |
Want one that's already here? There's one in the storage yard where I keep my bus which hasn't moved in at least 6 years, slowly rotting back into the ground from where it came, albeit from the other side of the planet. Along with height problems if it is over 13'6" tall, is the lack of underfloor room and the low ceiling heights on both levels. Driving one in a crosswind ought to be a real brown trousers experience, especially on a bridge. | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 121 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 75.89.20.233 Rating: N/A |
A little OT but I have a vague recollection of a TV scene of British DD traing on a skid pad. Watching those busses do doughnuts and side slips left a lasting imprint. I think it was on "You Asked For It" or one of those early TV shows. Len | ||
| Roderick W. Chandler (Rod)
Registered Member Username: Rod Post Number: 30 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.30.188.128 Rating: N/A |
Sarg, Unless ther has been a hugh change in regulations shipping that back will be out of your pocket. Army won't ship RV's. Because of Pollution laws I have sen people have difficulty getting a German made Mercedes back, He had problems with emmisions headlights glass etc, that did not meet import standards. There are double deckers in the states if you look hard. Saw one up around Dallas once. Just some thioughts from an Old soldier. | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 139 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 69.143.43.3 Rating: |
__. OK, here's the real story -- __. As a returning serviceman, you can bring back any vehicle that's; 1) Made to US standards, 2) "converted" to US standards, 3) Over 25 years old for DOT and 21 years old for EPA. __. OK, you won't find a double-decker bus made to US standards, so that's out. The "conversion" thing isn't really useful - you have to find a "registered converter" and they want thousands of $$$$'s to just look at your bus; oh, yeah, you can pour many more thousands of $$$$'s into the vehicle changing lights, tires, glass, brake systems, etc. and if DOT or EPA says "we don't like the way this looks", it's just too bad - you don't get your money back, Customs will demand you crush the vehicle. So, that's not practical. __. What DOES work is a vehicle that's more than 25 years old. They're pretty hard to find - most bus companies in UK/Eire/Europe throw buses away at about 12 years. Any bus that's been in company use for 12 years and then in "local" use for another 12 is probably used up. But they're out there. __. Once the vehicle is on the dock, fill out the paperwork (the forms are "DOT-7" and EPA 3520-1; you have to fill them out so that they're acceptable to DOT and EPA and give them to Customs). Then you have to pay Customs duties - make sure that Customs rates the vehicle as "manufactured for the transport of persons" ("manufactured for the transport of goods" has a much higher duty rate). __. About 35 US states have a height limit of 13'6". The other 15 or so have a height limit of 14' or higher. So, anything that's 13'6" or less is legal in all states. (Canada is a little wierd in that they use metric heights and some are in conformity with feet/inch height restrictions and some aren't; also Alberta has a published max of 3.85 m - this is a good bit below 13'6". Now maybe every standard N American tractor-trailer stops at the Alberta border and they unload its cargo into 12'8" trucks there, but I doubt it.) __. The standard height for British buses is 14'4" so they're not legal to drive in the US without special permits for each trip, approval on the route from the State DOT/DMV, flag cars with flashing lights, etc. So, this is not good. But there are some British bus routes that go under bridges (usually railroad bridges) that aren't 14'6". So, there are a few British buses made every year that are what are called "low-bridge" models. Most of these are 13'4" or 13'6" so these ARE acceptable to bringing back to the US. __. When I worked at the Dundalk, MD port a few years ago, there was an office there called "Military Vehicle Transportation Commmand" or something like that. They dealt with the cars of service people. Contact them for the "real answer" on what they will allow and what they'll do for you. __. For my bus, I went to the Baltimore office of Wallenius/Wilhelmsen, the largest vehicle shipper in the Atlantic, and was given a quote of $19,ooo for shipping my bus. I got on the internet and found a shipping agent in Southampton, England who shipped it with "Hoegh-Uland" (the company that ships Mercedes cars so they're not a slouch) for about 3400 Pounds (that was about $6500 in 2004, more like $7500 now). I had a choice of having the vehicle delivered to JAX, FL, Charleston SC, Baltimore, or Newark NJ -- I chose Baltimore because I was familiar with the port there and also the Customs office. __. Most British buses are 30 feet long, a few are 33 - 34. The streets are small over there and the government standard keeps them short for manuverability. So, this is not a real problem with US requirements. Also, the overall width of British buses is less than 96". __. I don't know about German/Euro paperwork but if you have a "Bill of Sale" and the British "MOT-7" (the equivalent of a title), most states will register the vehicle no problem. I had to have a State Trooper come out and inspect my vehicle, then write up an inspection approval form for me to take to DMV before they'd give me a title (all he was really interested in was confirming the VIN). It was no problem (and the clerk charged me "dollars for pounds" on the value for the sales tax). __. So, in summary, you have: 1) Federal requirements (DOT and EPA; waived if the vehicle is 25 years or older), 2) US Customs (basically paperwork, if DOT and EPA approves the vehicle), 3) Military shipping regulations, 4) The cost of shipping if you pay for it yourself, 5) State height, length and width regs (no problem if you pick the right bus), 6) State registration (also no problem if you do your homework -- but I'm told that some states won't approve UK/Eire/Euro lights/glass/etc. even if DOT waives it, so check on this in advance). NOTE -- If you try to do this, and it screws up on any point, you may be required to re-export the bus or have it crushed at your expense. Do NOT go into this lightly or without sufficient preparation. But it can be done, legally. Drop me an email if you want more info. | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 363 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.105.77 Rating: N/A |
And yet........ It's so easy to get a mail-order bride! Go figure... | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 141 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 69.143.43.3 Rating: N/A |
__. Yeah, but a mail-order bride won't have a leg blow out and swerve across the center divider into a school bus full of little girls ... or the thinking goes something like that. | ||
| larry currier (Larryc)
Registered Member Username: Larryc Post Number: 122 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 64.12.116.203 Rating: N/A |
Well, I guess you could always call MAK when you get home. He's been known to even give them away sometimes! My kids get good results having their vehicles always show up at their next duty station. I was wrong to assume there was help available for you if you "filled out the paperwork to see what happens". Please accept my humble apoligy. | ||
| James Stacy (Jimstacy)
Registered Member Username: Jimstacy Post Number: 52 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.41.21.83 Rating: N/A |
Neoplan made a double decker in the US that is already legal and here. It also is designed for left hand steering, current strong drive train, parts availability, and headroom. A little work should find one for sale when you are ready. | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 554 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 67.142.130.25 Rating: N/A |
Careful on that "parts availability" -- Neoplan USA is out of business, and the parts operation in PA is barely afloat. Parts are horrendously expensive and availability is marginal. Many parts (e.g. window glass) have to come from Germany and are often on 4-8 week back order. Also, many of the Neoplan double-deckers in this country were actually made in Germany, with hard-to-find European running gear (e.g. 385mm wheel hubs). They were built, though, for export to the US so they have DOT-spec glass, lights, brake line, etc. Lastly, the drivetrain is less than "current" -- the last double deckers were built with two-strokes and first-generation electronic controls. FWIW. -Sean '85 Neoplan Spaceliner http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| Kevin Black (Kblackav8or)
Registered Member Username: Kblackav8or Post Number: 56 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 24.152.174.198 Rating: N/A |
What about buying one and hanging the body on a chassis that is already legal? I would think a Crown bus chassis would work. There are also ways of building a "constructed" vehicle. If you can show bills of sale and titles from a couple and track your work, you could modify to suit. |
