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Message |
Syl Szucsko (Syl)
Registered Member
Username: Syl
Post Number: 7
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 68.241.199.138
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 8:25 am: | |
what would make a neutral bus bar connection in the breaker panel burn up ? After testing, seems like its when I use the gen set and I have spikes of high voltage . I bought this from Wrico 10 yrs ago 10.5KW with 4 cyl Kubota |
Syl Szucsko (Syl)
Registered Member
Username: Syl
Post Number: 8
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 68.241.199.138
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 8:33 am: | |
I am in Atlantic City and heading to FLand then to AZ, is there any electrical whiz I can stop and get help. I had to change the panel and I think I have a short in my magnetic trans fer switch wich I have bypassed but still have a problem |
Nick Badame Refrigeration Co. (Dnick85)
Registered Member
Username: Dnick85
Post Number: 159
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 75.199.78.39
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 9:03 am: | |
Hi Syl Szucsko,
My shop is 20 mi south of Atlantic City. We are pretty good with gen/transfer switch wireing.
If you need to, give a call 609-827-7331 cell
Nick- |
Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
Registered Member
Username: Jerry_liebler
Post Number: 267
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 67.140.167.82
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 9:04 am: | |
Syl,
If you mean a connection of neutral wires, on a bus bar, in the pannel. It's usually a loose connection that heats up when there is a load on the associated circuit. Please give us a more complete description of the symptoms.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120 |
Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member
Username: Sean
Post Number: 624
Registered: 1-2003
Posted From: 66.82.9.57
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 12:34 pm: | |
Syl,
I'm with Jerry on this -- probably ohmic heating due to a loose connection. If the whole bus bar has heated up and burned everything around it, then likely the loose connection is the main lug.
This blog post: http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com/2006/10/before-and-after.html
shows the before-and-after of a similar problem we had aboard Odyssey, where, over time, the main lug on one of the hot wires worked loose, and ohmic heating burned the insulation to a crisp. (Click on the photos to enlarge them -- it's hard to see otherwise.)
These (usually) aluminum lugs with set screws will come loose over time, even in a stationary application like a house, just from the differential expansion and contraction as the connections heat up and cool down. Add in the vibration of the coach environment, and it can be a recipe for disaster.
I recommend to everyone to check all their main lugs for tightness periodically. We look at ours every time we open a panel for any other reason.
We seldom need to open our genny main panel, where this occurred, and the first indication of a problem was when the main breaker started tripping for seemingly no reason. Again, any time you have unexplained breaker tripping is a good time to open up the panels and have a look.
FWIW.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com |
Nick Badame Refrigeration Co. (Dnick85)
Registered Member
Username: Dnick85
Post Number: 160
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 68.45.178.44
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 1:43 pm: | |
Hi Guy's
I spoke with Syl, and we seem to think that you are correct with either the loose connections or a bad transfer switch. He may just come to my shop tomorrow and we will fill you in on what we find.
Nick- |
Robert Cox (Bob05)
Registered Member
Username: Bob05
Post Number: 12
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 75.0.8.254
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 10:33 pm: | |
Let's get one thing answered Syl is telling me that on a 120volt genset at times he is reading 170 volts. under normal operation it's 119 volts.
it's a 120volt gen set not120/240. |
Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member
Username: Sean
Post Number: 625
Registered: 1-2003
Posted From: 67.142.130.41
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 12:09 am: | |
Bob,
If it's a transformer-regulated generator, it can read high when there is no load on it at all. Plugging in even a 40-watt light bulb will usually bring the reading down to nominal.
-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com |
James Stacy (Jimstacy)
Registered Member
Username: Jimstacy
Post Number: 80
Registered: 1-2001
Posted From: 75.41.14.95
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 11:53 am: | |
If the neutral is floating with two 120v legs. it is possible to get a high reading on one leg (would probably show low on the other leg at the same time). |
Nick Badame Refrigeration Co. (Dnick85)
Registered Member
Username: Dnick85
Post Number: 161
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 68.45.178.44
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 4:09 pm: | |
Hi Guy's,
Syl and I have the gen set isolated with a 17 amp load and we are reading a steady 120volts out of the gen set. ?? We inspected all connections at the gen, transfer switch, and the main panel, all is tight and no burn marks.
Any other reason why the gen would spike to 170 volts?? This spike only happens when the coach is running on gen power. When Syl expierenced this spike, he heard the gen drag down and a 40 watt light bulb went very bright....
Thanks
Nick/Syl |
Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member
Username: Lsilva
Post Number: 130
Registered: 12-2000
Posted From: 67.141.146.96
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 6:05 pm: | |
Nick, the only thing I can think of is a loose connection from or a bad regulator. How long does the spike last, just a quick flash or several seconds?
Len |
Nick Badame Refrigeration Co. (Dnick85)
Registered Member
Username: Dnick85
Post Number: 162
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 75.199.70.18
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 8:42 pm: | |
Hi Len,
Thanks, The regulator is also my thought. The spike lasts several seconds, then back to normal.
I'm thinking that heat build up may have an effect on the solid state regulator and we will attempt to replace it tomorrow.
Nick- |
George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member
Username: George_mc6
Post Number: 234
Registered: 8-2006
Posted From: 207.231.81.129
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 12:22 am: | |
Here's my nickel,
There may be two problems here. One may be a high resistance in the neutral buss, as suggested before. Not seeing how it is wired, I would only be guessing. A point to ponder, is the neutral wiring. I have read the entire post, and agree with Jim's comment about 120/240 voltage readings on a shared neutral. Apparently that is not the way this bus is wired. Now, the neutral is only designed to carry un-balanced current in a "120/240" configuration, as this bus is apparently wired, the neutral carries the same current as the hot wire. (I hope it is the same size, and not on a small lug with a small screw?)
A thought on the wacky voltage would also be to check the exciter winding for an intermittent short to ground. You are in good hands with Nick, because when the air conditioning fails, people don't call electricians!
George |
Nick Badame Refrigeration Co. (Dnick85)
Registered Member
Username: Dnick85
Post Number: 164
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 75.199.70.18
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 6:43 am: | |
Hi George,
Good point, I'm going to check the size of the nutral buss bar this morning. I'll let you know what we find.
Nick- |
Nick Badame Refrigeration Co. (Dnick85)
Registered Member
Username: Dnick85
Post Number: 165
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 75.197.152.194
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 12:00 am: | |
Hi Guy's,
All the connections in the panel and all other places are good and proper size. We got the generator to go haywire again by running both A/C's and cycleing one into locked rotar. Well the gen started smoking with a foul plastic smell and it shook violently then stalled. We called Dick at wirco and discussed the problem. We then concluded that the gen head's windings were shot. Amazing, the 50 amp breaker on the gen didn't trip yet, the gen stalled out first.
Anyway, Dick shipped a new head out and we hope to install it over the weekend for Syl to get back on his way.
Nick- |
Ed Roelle (Ed_roelle)
Registered Member
Username: Ed_roelle
Post Number: 28
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 68.85.142.109
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 11:20 am: | |
I have heard of this happening. The suggestion was to change a bearing in the generator head as maintenace.
When you pull the head, see if there is any "wiggle", in the shaft. How many hours on the generator?
Ed |
Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member
Username: Doninwa
Post Number: 67
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 65.61.96.82
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 11:28 am: | |
Nick,
Sounds like a new breaker might be a good idea too.
Don 4107 |
RJmule (Rjmule)
Registered Member
Username: Rjmule
Post Number: 115
Registered: 2-2007
Posted From: 75.51.78.4
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 1:07 pm: | |
Nick or Syl, could you give me an idea what wrico charged for the gen head, I am in need of one and have been hesitant to call them. any info would be appreciated. Rj mule |
Syl Szucsko (Syl)
Registered Member
Username: Syl
Post Number: 10
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 70.14.222.162
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 9:46 pm: | |
Ed the gen set has 1033 hrs 10 yrs old. On this genhead I had Dick Wright install breaker at the head instead of 50 amp breaker box. RJ send me your E-mail and include your phone # and I will call U . syl@szucsko.com |
Syl Szucsko (Syl)
Registered Member
Username: Syl
Post Number: 11
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 68.241.53.88
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 8:00 am: | |
Opps I am using the wifes pc so e-mail me at shirley@szucsko.com |