| Author | Message | ||
| Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member Username: Doninwa Post Number: 64 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 65.61.96.82 Rating: N/A |
I see a lot of people using the SW series and understand that if you are 24 volt it is the goto inverter. I am going to stay 12 volt since the 4107 is 12 volt and I want to use that big alternator. Comparing them I find: The SW appears to be designed for off grid household use adapted for motor coach, the RS appears to be designed for coaches from the ground up. Not trying to slam SW users, just appears the way they evolved. The SW is guaranteed for 2 years, the RS for 3. The SW is 2500 watt, the RS 3000 watt. Five second starting load rating for the SW is 4000 watts, the RS is 7500 watts. They both have 3 stage temp compensated 150 amp chargers. They both have power sharing. The SW may use less standby power. The specs are unclear on this. The RS has 2 leg 50 amp transfer switch and handles neutral bonding. Does not have genset input so requires a external transfer switch. I see no way to use an SW without a transfer switch either or at least a bonding relay. The SW has separate genset in switching and auto start. I understand it is fully programmable. Not sure I want the genset operating unless I choose to at the time, I'm a hands on type of guy.  Maybe if the CRS gets worse I will need it! It appears to me the RS would make AC panel wiring easier with 2 leg switching for a true 50 amp service. No need for sub-panel. I plan no 240 volt appliances but the capability would be there when hooked to 50 amp with no wiring gymnastics except flipping a breaker. A 240VAC genset would give full capability. The only time you would be without 240VAC would be when hooked to 15 or 30 amp service or operating off the inverter. The RS is rated to work from -4 to 122 degrees F and the SW only 32 degrees to 77 degrees F! Don't know how often the bays are below 77 degrees. The RS is considerably less $$$$$$. What other things should I consider for choosing an inverter? | ||
| James Smith (Tomcat)
Registered Member Username: Tomcat Post Number: 50 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 207.200.116.13 Rating: N/A |
I have an RS3000 with auto genny start and control panel. It has operated flawlessly for the 19 months I have used it, with the exception of one time...in minus 25* degree temps. It would shut down with an alarm saying it was too cold, I would clear the fault, and it would restart. It did this twice before it warmed up enough to quit doing that. Other than that, it has operated as advertised and I feel it was money well spent. Jay 87 SaftLiner | ||
| Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
Registered Member Username: Jerry_liebler Post Number: 263 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 67.140.167.82 Rating: N/A |
Don, I welcome a fellow 4107 owner to the challenges of a 12 volt bus. What you've said is all fine BUT the SW allows you to program the shore cord size and have the inverter supply battery power to 'suplement' the limited shore cord. This feature (NOT IN THE RS) allows me to start my air conditioner(s) with a 15 amp long extension cord to shore. If the load is too big for the shore cord for long enough to deplete the house battery the generator will automatically be started to recharge the house battery. I have no sub panel, all but one of my circuits are on the inverter side, the other side only has the electric water heater which I'll never run on battery. This all works out with a 7500 watt generator (wired for 120 only) and efficient air conditioners and refrigerator. I have a gas cooktop, my only gas appliance. I'm also able to run my, recently installed, front ductless split heat pump (18,000 BTU/h)through the inverter while driving, it draws 13 amps. I've driven the bus on a 95 degree day and stayed cool with a temperature of 70 inside with just the front AC. It's true I had to 'invent' an automatic transfer switch and neutral bonding solution. My electrical 'infrastructure' (generator,inverter,house battery bank, and transfer switch) has been in and working flawlessly for a bit over 3 years. Regards Jerry 4107 1120 | ||
| Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
Registered Member Username: Jerry_liebler Post Number: 264 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 67.140.167.82 Rating: N/A |
Don, BTW if I was starting out I'd convert the bus alternator to 24 volts, all that needs to be changed is the 'field' and regulator. I'd use a 24 volt house bank and an SW4024. I'd convert the bus batteries to 24 volt but run the 'standard' bus electrical system off of the 12 volt tap with an equaliser. Eventually I'd convert to a 24 volt starter too. Regards Jerry 4107 1120 | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 618 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 67.142.130.24 Rating: N/A |
Don, The RS3000 is a fine inverter, and found in many high end coaches today. However, there are a couple of issues: (1) Do not buy this inverter without also buying the full-feature remote panel. One of the rigs on my Mexico caravan had this inverter, and it had major problems. When I went to help the guy fix it, there was literally nothing we could do, because the settings had been stored by the coach builder, and we did not have the remote panel to change any of the settings. (It was an Alpine, and they had wired it instead to a Silverleaf VMS control, which could not set all the variables.) (2) The RS3000 does *not* have supplemental load support, as the SW2512 does. What Xantrex calls "load sharing" on this model simply means that it will reduce the draw of the charging circuit to make current available for loads. It can *not* power a load bigger than your AC input, the way an SW-series model can. So, for example, if you have a 30-amp shore service, and you turn on one air conditioner drawing, say, 15 amps, the charger will reduce its current draw to 15 amps, to keep within the 30-amp service. Now if you turn on a second air conditioner, also drawing 15 amps (and never mind, for a moment, that it will take more current than that to start it), the charger will turn off entirely, and all 30 input amps will be going to the load. Now you turn on a night-light drawing 1 amp, and your shore circuit breaker will trip. Actually, this is a bad example, because your shore circuit breaker would have tripped the minute you tried to start that second air conditioner, because it takes more like 20 amps to start it up. By contrast, a SW2512 will also reduce its charge draw as you add loads, but with the added advantage that it will actually supplement the current available from shore if needed. So when you start that second A/C, the extra 5 amps (or whatever) will be drawn from the batteries. Only a synchronizing (grid-tie) type inverter such as the SW series can pull off this little trick -- the RS series does not have this capability. FWIW, we use the load-support feature of our SW all the time, routinely running an air conditioner while on only a 20-amp circuit, or two air conditioners on 30 amps. We simply could not do this without the load support feature, and I, personally, would not be without it. YMMV. HTH, -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 619 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 67.142.130.24 Rating: N/A |
Jerry, We've got to stop meeting like this. Apologies, everyone, Jerry and I were apparently typing the same thing at the same time. -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
Registered Member Username: Jerry_liebler Post Number: 265 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 67.140.167.82 Rating: N/A |
Don, Another thing about the SW2512 that is misleading in the specs you found. On page 119 of the user's manual it says that within a temperature range of 32f to 104f "all tolerances will be met" and permissible operating temperature -40 f to +140 f "some specifications may be out of tolerance". From the manual I know that it would shut down and show an error code if it got too hot, I've never seen it and I've driven many hours in 100 degree+ conditions with it delivering about 1500 watts. Sean, Thanks for powerfully supporting what I said. Regards Jerry 4107 1120 | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 620 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 67.142.130.24 Rating: N/A |
Jerry, You're welcome, and: "... it would shut down and show an error code if it got too hot, I've never seen it ..." Actually, we had this problem. Due to space constraints, our SW4024 is located in a very tight compartment, along with the eight AGM batteries. This happens to be over the front wheel wells, behind the driver compartment. The SW4024 generates an enormous amount of heat when it is charging or when it is powering heavy loads (like two air conditioners while driving), and there was no place for this heat to go. So we had the SW shut down on over-temp a few times, and it even tripped the little thermal/magnetic pushbutton breaker on the side (which is for the charging circuit). I went down to Fry's (discount electronic store) and bought a little 12-volt computer fan, hooked that up to my 12-volt house supply in series with a cheap household thermostat set at 90 or so, and mounted it so as to flush the compartment with fresh air whenever the compartment temperature exceeds the thermostat set point. Since then, no further problems. FWIW. -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member Username: Doninwa Post Number: 66 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 65.61.96.82 Rating: N/A |
Thanks All, I didn't catch the the difference between power sharing and power supplementing. I agree that would be a big advantage. Maybe if I drag my feet long enough Xantrex will add the dual leg capability to the SW line. That sure does simplify the panel layout and simplify using 240VAC stuff. I think I am going to go forward installing my shore power cord, disconnect/beaker and temporarily wire past where the transfer switch and inverter will be. That way I can install my main panel. Maybe when I get to the point that I need the inverter there will be more choices and or features. Jerry, I am thinking I want to use the existing bus alternator to charge the house bank directly since they would be doing most of the work. That way running AC down the road from the inverter will draw directly from the batteries connected to the big alternator instead of drawing the current through an isolator or solenoid. Just trying to use the KISS method as much as I can. I will then put in a separate alternator to charge the start batteries for redundancy with a manual switch or solenoid to tie the banks together for jump start or if one of the alternators fails. Kinda hate to lose the beltless look though. You are more adventurous that I if you make the change to 24 volt. At least at 12 volts I can eliminate one gadget, the equalizer. I am going to have to consider that 120-240 transformer of yours for the AC. Gives a lot more choices. Thanks again, if I added up all the time/money/grief I've saved by bouncing stuff off the good people of the boards I could buy a Marathon! Well, maybe a used Marathon. | ||
| Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
Registered Member Username: Jerry_liebler Post Number: 266 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 67.140.167.82 Rating: N/A |
Don, I'll sugest 'equipment' locations that I've used that I'm quite happy with. First I gave up on the coach AC and pulled all of it out. The former AC bay houses my generator, house battery, transfer switch & main ac breaker, inverter and the outdoor unit of my ductless split along with the step up transformer. The generator is toward the front on the right side on a homemade slide, it's exaust goes through mufflers in the bay then under the bay floors toward the rear and exits in front of the left rear wheel. The house battery (4ea L16s) is in a box on slides directly behind the generator. The inverter is in the center of the 'bay' directly behind the house battery box. The transfer switch and main breaker are attached to the 'roof' of the bay over the generator. I had to relocate the main air tank by turning it 90 degrees and mounting it to the compartment's rear bulkhead. My inverter remote and generator remote are in what used to be the destination sign. I extended the upper floor level forward right to the rear edge of the door about 10" wide along the right side of the bus and the 'front' of this extension holds my AC circuit breaker panel, a Square D 100 amp sub panel that allows 8 circuits on each leg. Thus my breakers are inside the bus and accessible while driving. I also relocated the start batteries to where the AC compressor was, in front of the radiator. This significantly increased rear bay floor space and allowed a much bigger waste tank, my fresh water is in tanks under the beds. My domestic water heater and one of the Webasto fan heaters is under the center portion of the upper floor extension. The Webasto boiler is mounted above the transmission in the engine compartment. The result is I have a completely free of conversion 'stuff' center bay and well over 1/2 of the rear bay still open. I have a 2 pole 50 amp breaker mounted to the 'roof' of the rear bay that serves as a disconnect for the shore cord and a junction between the 6-3 wg romex (in flexible conduit where exposed) that connects to my transfer switch. The romex is routed through the 'tunnel in the center of the bus. If you want further details of any of this or pictures send me an off board email. Regards Jerry 4107 1120 |