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Christopher Goodwin (Cgoodwin)
Registered Member
Username: Cgoodwin
Post Number: 102
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 70.56.157.202
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 5:53 pm: | |
Does anyone in Idaho have a diesel or LP genset 6.5kw or larger for sale??? On the road and in need... |
Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member
Username: Dreamscape
Post Number: 78
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 64.40.223.242
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 6:18 pm: | |
Have you checked craig's list. Are you looking for gas, diesel or propane? |
Christopher Goodwin (Cgoodwin)
Registered Member
Username: Cgoodwin
Post Number: 103
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 70.56.157.202
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 7:10 pm: | |
"diesel or LP genset 6.5kw or larger"
Yes I have, nothing. |
Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member
Username: Dreamscape
Post Number: 79
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 64.40.223.242
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 9:31 pm: | |
luvrbus is in Idaho I think, maybe he will chime in and give you some suggestions. I did see a couple listed in Craig's but maybe gone by now. Spokane, Boise might be a place to start. Sorry not much help on this end. |
Pete/RTS Daytona (Pete_rtsdaytona)
Registered Member
Username: Pete_rtsdaytona
Post Number: 372
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 208.118.14.253
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 9:40 pm: | |
what happened to your Honda ES6500 ?? |
Christopher Goodwin (Cgoodwin)
Registered Member
Username: Cgoodwin
Post Number: 104
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 70.56.157.202
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 11:14 am: | |
I can only get it to produce 60hz under the load of a single AC unit, there seem to be some issues with the propane conversion or it is possible that the motor is just tired (although I believe it has low hours). When I load it more than one AC it drops to 45hz and will nto recover. In addition I can only get it to run with a plate over the intake restricting the intake to a 3/8" orifice to increase vacuum enough for the demand regulator to deliver fuel.
I have replaced all the components and have about 10 hours into it, if I can locate a functioning genset or a deal on a diesel Onan I would rather spend the money there than spending more time on this. When this 10 day vacation is over I am back to work and will not have the time to mess with it for quite a while. |
George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member
Username: George_mc6
Post Number: 241
Registered: 8-2006
Posted From: 66.248.68.87
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 12:58 pm: | |
Chris,
Have you read my post under roof airs from last night? I can understand your frustration in this situation! I am also certain that your problem is with propane supply, and we must know what regulator you are using to supply propane to your gen.
Please look at the generator's supply pressure requirements, and at the regulator you are using. From clear out here, it sounds like you are using an "appliance" type regulator to supply only your genset straight from a tank?
There are three types of regulators available: "First stage," which reduces tank pressure down to about 10 psi, is used to reduce the high tank pressure to a lower level, and still leave enough to push sufficient quantities down a long pipe. This [two-regulator] system requires a "second stage" regulator at the house to lower the pressure from 10 psi to 11 inches of water column. (28 inches of water column equals one psi.) A "dual regulator" goes directly on a tank, lowers the pressure from tank to 11"WC and would be properly used in a bus to supply all of the appliances.
All of the generators I am familiar with require "first stage" pressure.
This means that if a bus has a propane gen and appliances connected to the same tank, it must be a "two-regulator" system, with the gen connected between the first and second stage regs. Putting a "choke" on the air inlet will enrich the mixture, apparently enough for the engine to run, but it has the adverse effect of acting like a second throttle, partly closed, robbing you of badly needed power! Not to mention that the governor now has lost control over the engine speed?
CHECK YOUR PRESSURE REQUIREMENTS, AND YOUR REGULATOR TYPES, AND GET BACK TO US, PLEASE.
Thanks for the support, RC!!!!
George |
Kevin Black (Kblackav8or)
Registered Member
Username: Kblackav8or
Post Number: 68
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 24.152.174.198
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 7:21 pm: | |
I see Onan diesel generators on various SOCAL craigslists fairly regularly. I saw one the other day that got me excited until I found out it was an 80HP model. TOOO big even for someone who overdoes just about everything. Mostly they are pulled from boats here. If you are closer to Seattle, that might be a good one to watch too. |
Chuck Newman (Chuck_newman)
Registered Member
Username: Chuck_newman
Post Number: 212
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 67.126.207.52
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 11:12 pm: | |
Chris,
I posted the information below under the Roof Top Air Conditioner thread. Have copied it here because the most important thing you need to do is to NOT put the wrong TYPE of propane (liquid / vapor)or use the wrong PRESSURE into the generator. I don't mean to be melodramatic here, but giving a device the wrong type and / or pressure propane is literally risking your life and your coach. Do you have any specifications on the Honda conversion?
Username: Chuck_newman
Post Number: 210
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 67.126.207.52
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)
Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 10:49 pm: Edit PostDelete Post
George,
I don't know the specs on the Honda ES6500, but all the generators we have from 10KW to 40KW run on 13"W.C., not 10 PSI.
From my experience, it sounds like Chris is running the Honda with a single stage regulator on a tank with too small a surface area resulting in partial ice up within the regulator.
Chuck Newman (Chuck_newman)
Registered Member
Username: Chuck_newman
Post Number: 211
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 67.126.207.52
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)
Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 10:56 pm: Edit PostDelete Post
Just read the ES6500 specs on the Honda site and was thinking what type of gasoline-to-lpg conversion does Chris have? Most engine "conversions" I've seen use liquid propane (drawn from the bottom of the tank) as opposed to a typical RV type lpg generator that uses vapor lpg (drawn from the top of the tank). |
John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member
Username: John_mc9
Post Number: 460
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 66.217.105.125
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 11:32 pm: | |
Chris -
To add to Chuck's comment, and possibly provide some more
info for you, try this web site for details regarding the types of
conversion kits, pipe size, length, and WC pressure:
http://www.propane-generators.com/order_page.htm
That genset should put out as well on propane, as it would with
gasoline. Don't give up! |
James Smith (Tomcat)
Registered Member
Username: Tomcat
Post Number: 51
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 207.200.116.13
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 11:44 pm: | |
My Onan Marquis 5500LP has two propane regulators in the system. One at the 86 gallon tank, and the other at the generator itself.
I gave the local propane distributor the horsepower specs, and what other appliances I was going to be connecting to the propane tank, and they did the rest. They must have gotten it right, as my Onan has started for me down to 20*F with no problem. Between that, the low price of offroad propane, and a total lack of problems after inactivity, I feel good about my choice of LP power. The exhaust is not very offensive either.
I have a split 20/30 amp breakers system, and run both of my Coleman Mach 1 PS (12,690btu/9.6amps) roof airs off of the 20 amp side, leaving plenty + for cooking or battery charging off the 30 amp side.
I'd find/fix the problem with your LP conversion, cross that issue off your list, then enjoy a great generator, running on an awesome fuel source.
Jay
87 SaftLiner |
George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member
Username: George_mc6
Post Number: 244
Registered: 8-2006
Posted From: 207.231.81.129
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 12:10 am: | |
Chuck,
Please don't apologize for being helpful, and making helpful suggestions. We all have the same feelings about his problems, and all feel he is not getting enough fuel. Just as you say, the conversions usually want liquid, which can't be supplied by an 11" regulator. His symptoms sound like a liquid regulator on vapor, and from his post, it sounds like another improper regulator has been installed.
Anyhow, your diplomacy is appreciated, your helpful suggestion is appreciated, and absolutely NO offense taken!
Regards,
George |
Chuck Newman (Chuck_newman)
Registered Member
Username: Chuck_newman
Post Number: 213
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 67.126.207.52
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 1:08 am: | |
Thanks for the kind words George. As you know, most folks simply don't know the difference between liquid/vapor, PSI and W.C., orifice sizing, regulator sizing, dual and single stage, vapor icing, etc. My main concern is something is obviously wrong in Chris' conversion, and some elements of incorrectly done jobs (probably none of Chris' fault) can really ruin your day.
Unless Chris recently got the Honda converted by a reputable shop, I doubt he knows the answers we all are asking him. It can be as technical as bus/RV electrics, and just as dangerous. The problem is most of the usable literature on LPG training I have seen is from manufacturers like Rego, and NFPA 58.
I agree with you, it could be a regulator type issue. Many older regulators used in cold environments required liquid LPG. Over the past twenty years or so, most "liquid using" generators in very cold areas use a engine heated evaporator ahead of the regulator that wanted to see only vapor LPG. That being said, most of the auto LPG conversions required liquid LPG. I have a ASME tank with both outlets on it that came from a pickup truck.
If he is drawing heavily (running two A/C's) from a small tank with a single stage regulator, and the tank is shaded from the sun, that scenario has caused us similar problems many times due to ice crystal formation in the regulator. The fix is to use a dual stage regulator. Or he may have the wrong size orifice in the carb mod. Or a restriction in the line. Or maybe something else.
But John is correct -- even with a slight drop in output due to lower BTU of LPG vs gasoline, in the real world the Honda should handle two roof A/C's. That's assuming of course he does not have any other loads on it, or suffering excess current problems from one or more motors or other electrical problems. |
John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member
Username: John_mc9
Post Number: 463
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 66.217.105.125
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 1:46 am: | |
Thanks Chuck!
It's very difficult to diagnose a problem "second hand". A person
can only guess at the variables, and the matters unmentioned.
Chris' problem may only be a matter of a too small tank, or a
too low regulator setting....
That 6500 is a great genset! There's no reason it can't do what
he needs it to. I've run mine on a 20lb bottle (makeshift), and
powered both 13.5 AC units.... no problamo...
My guess, is the wrong regulator setting for the application;
it's not always easy, to set that regulator properly.. |
Christopher Goodwin (Cgoodwin)
Registered Member
Username: Cgoodwin
Post Number: 109
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 70.56.157.202
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 12:28 pm: | |
Sorry guys I had not seen this thread was active. Honestly (No offense to Ian) I find this forum very difficult to use compared with "Vbulletin".
OK, I have been a professional Mechanic since I was 15 off and on, own a shop now and have not only worked on race teams but designed diving gear for underwater filming for nearly 30 films and commercials. The conversion system I bought from http://www.propanecarbs.com/dualfuelconversion.html it is a dual fuel system and originally I had one of my techs install the system. Before leaving on my trip I tested it and found it not to be functioning properly so I contacted the vendor, I bought all new components even though the ones I had had only been used on the bench, I wanted to eliminate possible component damage by my tech.
I installed an ajustable reg at the tank dropping the pressure to 9 to 16, this goes to a solenoid cut-off valve controlled by a vacuum microvac switch which only allows flow of fuel while cranking on with ign on and vacuum present, so it cuts the fuel if the genset stops running for any reason. From there it goes to a Garretson KN demand regulator with auto-prime during crank and out an adjustable load block (rich-lean adjustment) and into a difuser on the intake of the carb.
I have played with all the adjustments and it seems happiest between 11 and 13 WC but the real issue seems to be with the demand system. If I block off the intake betweent he filter and the venturi/difuser adapter with a plate with a 3/8" hole in it, this increases the vacuum which tells the demand reg to deliver more fuel, then it will run but only enough to power one AC unit. I think that the 3/8" hole while increasing vacuum enought to get fuel delivered also restricts the engines operation as it simply can not breathe! Like ahving a 454 running with the air filter on the end of a garden hose, motors are air pumps, if they can not get it in and out they can not produce power!
I am at a loss with this system and have been on the phone with the alt power people but they can not seem to tell me what to do. I have paid a local guy here familiar with propane and he has come up empty.
I am about ready to tear it off and run the darn thing on Gasoline. |
Florida Cliff (Floridacracker)
Registered Member
Username: Floridacracker
Post Number: 329
Registered: 7-2004
Posted From: 67.8.199.203
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 8:29 pm: | |
Chris,
I have the ES6500.
I am running on gas.
When I first purchased it I thought it was running a little rough, but thought it was jsut a carb adjustment.
Long story short, there was a recall due to the cam pulley wallowing out on the keyway and causing it not to run properly.
This was corrected on late model units.
I found this out when mine just died on the road, in July...Ugggh.
I ended up replacing the cam and cam pulley.
FYI-If needed the cam pulley comes with the cam, I ordered seperate and had to eat the extra pulley. not cheap either, 100.00.
Just an FYI incase you maybe having a similar issue.
Cliff |
Pete/RTS Daytona (Pete_rtsdaytona)
Registered Member
Username: Pete_rtsdaytona
Post Number: 374
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 208.118.14.253
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 9:01 pm: | |
Cliff
I sold the Honda to Cliff - I noted to him that it had to be choked in order to run - we both assumed it was just a carb adjustment. Cliff told me later about the Cam Problem
Cliff - with the cam problem could you run more than 1 A/C unit - I only used the generator - when I owned it - for backup power during the hurricanes - It just ran the kitchen refer and some fans and lights in the house.
Hopefully this will point Chris to what may be his problem
Thanks Cliff for responding to my email about Chris problem
Pete RTS/Daytona |
Christopher Goodwin (Cgoodwin)
Registered Member
Username: Cgoodwin
Post Number: 113
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 71.212.78.253
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 1:54 am: | |
Repaired on the road. The issue was with the propane shut off valve, all the conversion manuals I have seen show it mounted to the inlet of the demand regulator. I had purchased mine at a marine supply and it was designed for the HP side as marine systems turn off the propane at the bottle rather than at the appliance. The lower pressure after the regulator was not able to overcome the valve so it was starving for fuel. I relocated it to the bottle and the genset fired righ up and easily runs two 15k btu AC units, 2 under counter refers, a coffee maker and the furnace fan I have ventilating the generator bay. Great unit, quiet and burns 4 gallons of propane in 6 to 7 hours.
Once all is done I will only be using it when the engine is not running, batts are low and no shore power is available. |
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