| Author |
Message |
Patrick levenson (Zubzub)
Registered Member
Username: Zubzub
Post Number: 3
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 70.55.148.96
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 11, 2007 - 4:29 pm: | |
I was wondering what it means if the emergency shutdown flap, flips down (tries to cut off air) but the engine keeps going (although it sounds weirder/clogged)?I shut it down right away. I'm looking pretty seriously at this bus, the shut down stuff doesn't work, have to use the clutch or press a small valve stem (like a tire valve) which makes me think the thing that goes to that needs some playing with. The electrics are a mess on this puppy, no charge yet either. Thanks as always. There will be more questions coming from me soon re all the little things i need.Patrick |
marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member
Username: Gomer
Post Number: 74
Registered: 3-2007
Posted From: 76.4.136.26
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 11, 2007 - 6:17 pm: | |
if the engine is reeving high and it flips down it will sound funny. if it is idiling and it does that check the solenoid that holds it up and if that is ok linkage maybe a problem. the sol is energized by a switch on the drivers compartment If that doesn;t work when you fire it up RUN and let-r-go LOL Gomer |
Jim Wilke (Pd41044039)
Registered Member
Username: Pd41044039
Post Number: 161
Registered: 2-2001
Posted From: 68.187.183.190
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 11, 2007 - 9:49 pm: | |
Sometimes after many years of lack of maintenance, the flap doesn't close all the way when you activate it. Mine was frozen because some idiot wired it open years ago. When I overhauled it, I found that the little notched cam that holds it open was worn so it would trip by itself when you went over bumps like RR tracks, etc. So instead of repairing it, they wired it open. I filed the little notch square & it has been fine. BTW, when I first loosened it up, it would close all but the last 1/4 " which didn't stop the engine. Even working correctly, it doesn't shut off the engine at idle, just slows it way down & makes it smoke like a bear.
Also, you mentioned that none of the shut off stuff worked. You should know that if you start a 4104 up that has no air pressure, it won't shut off until it builds up some air pressure, at which time it will peter out like it is running out of fuel. This takes about 4-5 minutes after starting.
I don't recognize the valve stem thing. If you can take a picture of it, we can figure out what that is. |
Patrick levenson (Zubzub)
Registered Member
Username: Zubzub
Post Number: 4
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 70.55.153.238
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 1:17 pm: | |
I have tried to shrink the pic to post but the site won't let me. Some kind of glitch it is a very small pic. I think what I am talking about iis a skinner valve? Does a skinner use air release to stop the fuel? Or is a skinner the thing on the bulkhead thathas an electrical wire and a air line attached to it? I have pics but the site is not letting me post. |
Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member
Username: Dreamscape
Post Number: 94
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 70.103.23.130
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 7:12 am: | |
On my 8v71 the skinner valve is activated when you turn off your start key switch. It sends air to a small cylinder that shuts down the fuel rack. I replaced the cylinder on mine and it now shuts now quickly. At first the old cylinder did not extend the rod far enough to toatally close the rack.
On the emergency shut down mine has an electrical solenoid that has linkage going to the cam that locks down in a groove, spring loaded. It will not totally shut down your engine just blow tons of black smoke, with no power. Don't ask me how I know this. :-)
HTH
Paul
(Message edited by dreamscape on August 13, 2007) |
Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member
Username: Mel_4104
Post Number: 43
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 206.116.134.113
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 8:33 pm: | |
the air valve sstem that you have may be some one put it in line with the skinner valve so that you can use anshop air compressor to shut it down before the bus air builds up by the engine compressoe----next be carefull how and when you try using the em. shut down as it can pull the seals out of the blowwer and then you will really get black smoke. |
Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member
Username: Buswarrior
Post Number: 1054
Registered: 12-2000
Posted From: 74.12.85.68
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 9:23 pm: | |
Hello.
We really need to stop using the term "skinner valve". We need to desribe the function, or use the proper name for our problems.
Skinner is a manufacturer of all manner of valving on our coaches, from the tire inflation valves, to the stop and fast idle cylinders, and then some!
Describing a brake problem by talking about the "bendix valve" would be just as cryptic to would be trouble shooters.
The emergency shut down flap is a driver activated protection system that is intended to prevent the engine from "running away" if the fuel delivery system fails in a fueling postion.
It may or may not completely stall the motor.
Blower seals that get sucked out by activating the emergency stop flap, well, perhaps they were ready to fail?
No one should be worried about testing their emergency stop flap at engine idle speeds.
happy coaching!
buswarrior |
Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member
Username: Doninwa
Post Number: 73
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 65.61.96.82
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 11:28 pm: | |
If you were concerned about blower seals, could you test the emergency shut down with the engine off to see if it triggers? |
JC Alacoque (Jc_alacoque)
Registered Member
Username: Jc_alacoque
Post Number: 42
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 74.127.203.95
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 12:00 am: | |
You shouldn't be concerned about blower seals.
With engine off, push the button on the dash or in the engine compartment if you have one, and the solenoid should pull the rod and let the flap close with the spring. Reset the flap by hand. You should do that once in a while to ensure it works properly. |
James Stacy (Jimstacy)
Registered Member
Username: Jimstacy
Post Number: 93
Registered: 1-2001
Posted From: 75.41.27.80
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 5:02 pm: | |
FWIW, 71 series had rigid arms operating the injector racks. If one injector stuck in the fueling position, it would hold all of them open and the engine would run on it's own. (The rack has to be driven to the zero fuel position to stop the engine). The emergency flap was the only way to shut down.
One of the changes for the 92 series was to use a two piece arm with a spring loaded section which allowed the rack to return the balance of the injectors to idle position even with one injector sticking operated. This would raise the idle slightly, rather than run the engine at high rpm, and even allowed the vehicle to be driven with a little care. BTDT. Because of the flex arms, the 93 series does not require the shut down flap.I sure miss the excitement when the 6-71 flap would shake loose and the noise and smoke sounded terminal. Seemed to always happen on a crowded bridge, but my memory could be cloudy. Darn ol' 6-92 just runs and runs and runs. No excitement.
Jim Stacy |
Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member
Username: Gusc
Post Number: 457
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 63.97.117.26
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 10:25 pm: | |
Mel,
If you have shop air hooked up just go ahead and air up the whole bus so that the emg shutoff will then work?? |