| Author | Message | ||
| Christopher Goodwin (Cgoodwin)
Registered Member Username: Cgoodwin Post Number: 123 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.212.70.132 Rating: N/A |
Have a look at these http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?pagenum=2003 | ||
| Muddog16 (Muddog16)
Registered Member Username: Muddog16 Post Number: 361 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 4.224.204.232 Rating: N/A |
McMaster's is an awesome catalogue for the shop, so many save its! Chris, I have a question for you. What kind of a mess do "misters" leave in the engine compartment? I've read about so many people using them or topics on the board. I would expect that they leave a pretty nasty mess, corrosion and stuff like that. Am I wrong? Pat | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 723 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.117.21 Rating: N/A |
They are used as MISTERS, in that just enough water is misted that will evaporate by the time it reaches the inside of the radiator, no more. The benefit is in the evaporation, which is what draws the heat from the radiator. It doesn't take a lot; some mister users that have posted have indicated that they haven't had corrosion problems. If you are concerned, you could use distilled water, although it could add significantly to the expense of the system. | ||
| Christopher Goodwin (Cgoodwin)
Registered Member Username: Cgoodwin Post Number: 124 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.212.70.132 Rating: N/A |
I am just beginning researching them, but as JWR states, the concept is that the water evaporates before hitting the rad thus cooling the air 25F or so. This seems a tall order unless the ambient temp is pretty high and the flow rate low. That said fresh water would cause little in the way of corosion that rain would not except that tap water is higher in calcium in most areas. I have has some experience with water injection and water/methanol (windsheild washer fluid) injection and found that EGT was lowered and power increased. Look at "Snow performance" for further information. (Message edited by cgoodwin on August 19, 2007) | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member Username: Drivingmisslazy Post Number: 1972 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.108.83.235 Rating: |
In over ten years I never got any buildup on my radiator and I used my misters a lot. I had six units of the very smallest size available at that time. I actually turned them facing outward from the radiator as I did not want actual water hitting the radiator since that is not what does the cooling. Richard | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 254 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.81.129 Rating: N/A |
Then you get what the charter company did to my 6, which was two garden sprayer nozzles connected with a wye fitting, hooked up to an electric pump and about a 50 gal tank in the rear bay. No such thing as evaporation, they just sprayed water straight down directly in front of the radiator. I don't know how well it worked, as they kept the pump when the put the bus up for sale. It obviously used a lot of water, and I don't see any deposits on the outside of the radiator. Also, both the SP and the D&RGW railroads had locomotives equipped with radiator spray to keep them running in the long tunnels. These weren't as sophisticad as the misters, and used up a lot of water. FWIW | ||
| Nick Badame Refrigeration Co. (Dnick85)
Registered Member Username: Dnick85 Post Number: 172 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 75.196.33.216 Rating: |
Hi Christopher, I would stay away from the fogger nozzles as they don't put out much volume. The High-Volume Clog-Resistant Misting Nozzles are a better choice because you can have the pump switched at the dash and be able to see the system cool down via the temp guage and then turn it off. You most likely won't need to deploy it much, just on long grades! Good Luck Nick- | ||
| Muddog16 (Muddog16)
Registered Member Username: Muddog16 Post Number: 362 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 4.224.189.218 Rating: N/A |
Excellant information, I especially liked Richard's input of installing them to spray out, this would seem to me the correct method. Cooling (saturating) the air not drenching the radiator! That moisture has to go somewhere and eventually over a period of time do some damage somewhere. I just removed a 25 year old radiator core from my bus, that from wear without misting, literally the fins fell or were falling off! Thanks again for the excellant information! Pat (Message edited by muddog16 on August 20, 2007) | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 89 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.32.86.136 Rating: N/A |
Muddog,Prevosts and Eagles do not need any help cooling if you have the right air flow and radiator to me the misters are just another item to maintain just my thinking | ||
| Muddog16 (Muddog16)
Registered Member Username: Muddog16 Post Number: 363 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 4.224.189.38 Rating: |
Luvrbus, I wasn't going to put them on, I was just wondering why using misters were used at all other than "a band aid", or short term fixit. I've spent to much time cutting, cleaning and painting to make a mess in there now. I'm actually waiting for a rainy day to assemble my new core and tanks! | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member Username: Drivingmisslazy Post Number: 1974 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.108.81.96 Rating: |
When I changed my Eagle to an 8V92 I installed the largest radiator that the shop could find, got rid of the viscosity coupled fan, and finally had a larger, higher velocity fan installed. I still had cooling problems on some of the longer, steeper grades. The mister solved my problem 100% and used such a small amount of water that I never could tell the tank had gone down any. Richard | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 91 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.32.86.136 Rating: |
Richard, i have had a Eagle with a 892 475 hp for years and never had a cooling problem but one time when i put a full width mud flap across the back it went up to 190 from 180 and would get hot on a long pull took it off and no problems since and i go to Flagstaff from Bullhead several times a year and it all uphill.I am just saying if you have the air flow and right radiator they will not get hot | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member Username: Drivingmisslazy Post Number: 1975 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.108.81.96 Rating: N/A |
My engine change was done back in the 80's before the advent of the internet and all the on line help available. At that time there was very few places to get information. It is entirely possible that the shop doing the engine swap out was not aware of any larger radiators. Systems were flushed, all new hoses, and literally thousands of dollars to try and solve the problem, and it was never solved completely to my satisfaction. Richard | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 614 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 75.200.31.102 Rating: |
Goes to show you that when you go changing the original design, by adding or removing accessories of any type, it doesn't always work for the best! Does nothing more but make you spend money after money while you try and outsmart the engineers that designed the system/s to start with! I sometimes think that people have more dollars than "cents" and still complain they're broke! It's no wonder!! Ace | ||
| James Stacy (Jimstacy)
Registered Member Username: Jimstacy Post Number: 98 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.41.15.123 Rating: N/A |
Ace, Right on! When I see that many parts (brake shoes, wheel bearings, air bags, etc) in my old 1953 4104 are still current production items I am impressed by the depth of engineering that went into bus design. Only air craft design seems comparable. Those guys were amazing. Jim Stacy | ||
| Jim Wilke (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 172 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 69.77.156.44 Rating: |
Well my experience has been the same as Richard's. Our Eagle came from the factory with the 475HP 8-V92TA. It has a belt driven, solid fan (also factory setup). It gets hot climbing an 8%, 4 mile hill at about the 1 1/2 mile point even at 72 degrees. I hit the bottom at 70 & end up at 25 or 30 in 2nd gear because I back off to keep the temp under 200 (barely). The radiator is clean & has all it's fins but I'm not sure how clean inside as I haven't had time to remove it (A BEAR OF A JOB!). I rodded out my 4104 radiator several years ago. 50% of the tubes were clogged with little bits of rust. It took time but with a garden hose & a rod made from a bandsaw blade with the teeth ground off it went great. Before cleaning, the '04 could only go 55 on flat road without getting hot. After cleaning, it doesen't get hot on the 8% hill or any other, no matter how hot the weather. (Just wish she had more ponies to get up them hills faster!) | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 724 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.117.21 Rating: N/A |
If you want that radiator cleaned properly, it should be, at least rodded out from one end with one of the tanks removed, as flushing won't get a lot of rust or solder bloom from tubes or on the end of them. Sure, you " flush it and a lot of crap comes out, but you can't tell if the flow now is per specs or just somewhat better, unless you have the equipment to measure it. Is the flap across at the front of engine if it had one? Is the fan shroud in place without any missing pieces? I don't think anyone has said misters didn't fix their problem, providing their cooling system was up to snuff. Some will say that the radiator,s should have been larger, but the misters are cheap to install, pretty reliable, and don't add the weight of adding a larger radiator. BTW, I read on a couple of posts in the past of some that went with a larger core-$$$ that still didn't cure the problem.They then added misters. | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 627 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 70.220.231.9 Rating: N/A |
Ok here it is for you mister fellas and I use the term loosely! LOL I was in Wally World last night during my usual "redneck inspection" (that's when all the rednecks shop and you can see some pretty wild sites, men AND women) and I stumbled into the lawn and garden section and found what looks to be a pretty EASY and CHEAP enough fix for you guys that want a mister for your radiator! It comes in 1/4 inch and 3/8 inch tubing size and starts at 20 feet long and goes up from there. You can even get 4" extension nozzles which are flexible that attach directly to the mister itself! It comes pre- assembled and ready to install. You just connect one end to a garden hose fitting and I'm sure you all can figure that part out! The tubing is UV resistant too! Ok I'm reading this from the box. Yes I purchased one but ONLY because it was 6 bucks. It's 1/4 inch tubing, 20 feet long, 5 brass misting nozzles, 5 hanging clips, 1 hose adapter. It says it serves 10 feet of mist cooling coverage! I DID see the 3/8 tubing kit was a little more expensive but not much! It's made by ORBIT or ARIZONA MIST! Both names are on the box! It will look and work great around our umbrella on our deck or under our awning on the bus, WHEN I get one! Better hurry, summers almost gone and I think this is why they were so cheap! Hey it beats building your own! Ace | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 45 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 207.81.78.121 Rating: N/A |
i put a mister system on a fellow bus guys bus that was giving him heating fits and it was cheap and easy=====get a piece of white 3/4 white stiff plastic pipe the width of the radiator, 2 end capstap and thread one end so you can screw a 1/4 air line fitting into it,now get 3-6 spray nozzels from your local garden shop or hardware store[fine spray] drill and tap them into the plastic pipe evenly spaced its length,run a 1/4 air line plastic hose to the closest water line and [T]off it for the 1/4 in. line put the other end of the line on the pipe and install the pipe at the to of the radiator so that it spray it at a 30*-45* angle. now all you have to do is turn on your water pump when you want it to spray to cool the radaitor. we later added a heat sensor, relay to turn on the water pump when the water temp. reached 185* which worked better as the driver was not always looking at the the dash instead of the road. last but not least a mister will allow you to get better fuel milage as you can run you engine at a lower RPM as you do not have to shift into a loweer gear and rev it out of your best RPM for fuel mileage. |
