| Author | Message | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 616 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 75.200.26.147 Rating: |
and here it is! Here we are loading the bus... Heading for a rally mid year, it's REALLY a must! This rally is little, comparing it to bussin, but keeping it small, makes for a lot less fussin! There is no ryme or reason for this BS poem, but now we have a cause to show our house of chrome! We are a little small, and very big at heart, But hey, it only took two big buses to get off and start! Now there's six of us, to join in all the fun! Way down yonder in the South Florida sun! No sticks and staples, will you see here... just good ole' buses, friends, a steak and a beer! No singing, dancing, or mooshy romancin, just eating, chatting and a lot of relaxin! You can thank Manny and Darlene for our little show, but now you see, it's time to go! So long for now, we'll see you there, We'll leave the light on, so you'll know where! Riverbend RV park, is where we have the spaces be sure and tell them, your with the flyin Aces!, DISCLAIMER... THIS IS BY NO MEANS MEANT TO TO CAUSE HARM OR EMBARRASSMENT TO ANYONE MENTIONED ABOVE OR TO ANYONE WHO MAY READ THIS. IT DOESN'T INSINUATE ANYTHING MORE THAN WHAT YOU READ IN TO IT. IF YOU FEEL DIFFERENTLY, SO BE IT! GET OVER IT! | ||
| Ian Giffin (Admin)
Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 1013 Registered: 7-1997 Posted From: 70.55.230.68 Rating: |
Yeeesh! A new all time low for the board!!! But I like it :~) Ian www.busnut.com | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 609 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.1.180.218 Rating: N/A |
Hey Ace, Looks like your a poet and don't know it. But Susan said your toes show it, There're Longfellows. | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 82 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 76.4.151.123 Rating: N/A |
ace I am glad you didn't give up your day job to be a poet LOL But glad you are on the road again and when you come by Ocala Fl give me a call and if I am In town I would meet up with you. Oh I agree with Ian LOL gomer | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 727 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.117.21 Rating: |
I am so EMBARRASED!!!!! | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 617 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 75.200.26.147 Rating: |
Well guys thanks but as it is, I sit here broken hearted, I installed new batteries, and it still not started! Looks like my plans for the get a way are foiled. The bus is loaded and ready to go but it won't! I have been working on it since about 2pm and it is now 10pm. Still doing the same thing and let me add that Prevost is NO help as the guy I talked to said he didn't know much about 8v92's but he DID know series 60's. Go figure! Next stop is either Prevost shop, DD shop or Classifieds! I've had it up to you know where with this BS DDEC It seems like whenever you want to use it, you need to diagnose the problem/s first and with electronics, that's like looking for a needle in a haystack! I JUST used the damn thing in June and it ran flawlessly and have started it here at home since with no "flashing lights" or auto shutdown! Now I get ready to go and nothing! Oh it starts right up and purrs like a kitten every time you turn the key, even long enough to build up air pressure but then lights come on and off it goes! The hell with his crap! I'm tired of thinking about this so off to bed I'm going. I can see the classifieds in the near future for this POS! Manny, Jack and everyone else that is going, Sorry I can't be there but I know you guys will have a blast! If I don't sell it, or pull a Richard, Maybe I can make the next outing! Ace | ||
| Jim Wilke (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 173 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 69.77.156.44 Rating: |
Looks to me like you are "pulling another Ace". It is wrong to insinuate what you have not one fact to back up. My respect for you diminishes every time you do this. I'll bet others feel the same way. It would be nice if there was not another word about this issue. We can certainly chalk it up to extreme frustration and fatigue. Jim-Bob | ||
| Frank Allen (Frank66)
Registered Member Username: Frank66 Post Number: 55 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 64.12.117.73 Rating: |
right on Jim, This kind of thing never stops. | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 360 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.23.106.193 Rating: |
You can tell lots about one's character by observing the wake or trail left behind. My grandmother once told me "If you squeeze something hard enough, it's true insides are revealed regardless of what it appeared to be on the outside". From what I've noticed, it is all to easy to loose respect, & gaining it is almost impossible if one doesn't show it & compassion towards others. But what do I know? I'm not using my bus for camping yet, I had to resort to a camper trailer for that! But, what I lack in a runing bus, I make up for by collecting more non-runners!  (Anyone else wanting to contribute another PD4501 to the orphanage?) (Message edited by kyle4501 on August 24, 2007) | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
Registered Member Username: Daved Post Number: 178 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 142.46.199.30 Rating: |
What ever happened to the concept" If you can't say something nice (about somone), don't say anything at all." I don't understand the continuing "pick on Ace" approach to everything he posts; maybe I'm taking this all too seriously. FWIW DaveD | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 361 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.23.106.193 Rating: |
To claim the insurance co. was duped (by someone who torched their bus) without evidence . . . . DaveD, do you think it might not be intended as picking on rather than challanging him to either back up his claim, or stop making those types of references? Seems to me that a fire insurance co. that pays claims without some actual evidence to base their decision on won't be in business for long. That is the way I see it. | ||
| Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member Username: Dreamscape Post Number: 102 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 209.183.34.45 Rating: |
I am so sick and tired of personal attacks by anyone anyplace. This board and others is supposed to be about buses. If someone has a problem with a particular individual it should be handled OFF BOARD! The discussions should be related to problems with buses, not people! If it is to spread the word regarding a poor job by a shop, that's differant. That is a warning not a personal attack. Please people, newbies who read this stuff get turned off. I know I have been at times. Just my two cents. | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 618 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 70.220.8.2 Rating: N/A |
Jim, Kyle, whoever, I'm not going to comment on anything you guys have to say! You know why? It's not worth it! I'm having too much of a bad day as it is! Ace | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 83 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 76.4.150.37 Rating: N/A |
Hey Ace; I want to say that I like a lot of your post and the sense of HUMOR that you have. some people will ride a good horse to death and then blame someone for their poor ole horse dying,now back to you I have been there and don't care to remember all those frustrating times when a keyway would let me down and there I sat. KEEP LOOKING UP that is my words tonight and if I can or could help I would go and be the first to help you and see if I can at least buy a cup of coffee GOMER | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 619 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 70.220.8.2 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Gomer! It's guys like yourself that make this a great hobby! See you around... Ace | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 362 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.12.126.88 Rating: |
Ace, All other observations aside, I do hope tomorrow is a better day for you. Maybe a ride over to the rally to have a few cold ones will help recharge your batteries so you will have the energy to 'endeavor to persevere' to find the source of your DDEC gremlins. | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 620 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 70.220.8.2 Rating: N/A |
Kyle not really! It WOULD help if the rain would stop long enough for me to do some troubleshooting though! I DID make a trip to Tampa DD dealer today and had a lengthy talk with the service manager and he enlightened me on a thing or two. In fact, I found out that there are ONLY two sensors that will actually shut the coach down and keep it from running. One is the low water sensor and one is the low oil pressure. The water was replaced last year. Guess what I purchased while I was there? He DID say that if it wasn't the oil sensor that I could probably have a charging problem as the ECM HAS to have at least 14 volts of CONSTANT voltage meaning that if it isn't charging correctly, the ECM will not send the proper signal to the sensors where as you get a false reading and then the shut down! It could be the other way around too but you get the point! Fact is I have ALWAYS had a low battery problem since day one and if the oil sensor doesn't fix it then I will start at the batteries and remove each one piece by piece including the each and every cable to trace the problem. Reason I say this is because I feel there is a problem somewhere in the cables due to the fact that sometimes when I slide out the battery tray, the motor will run rough as if it isn't getting the proper voltage. As soon as I slide it back in, it clears up! This also happened BEFORE I purchased the bus or at least when I was buying it and forgot about it until today! The sellers mechanic blew it off as a no biggie then but I feel it may have something to do with my problem/s now! I also noticed that while I was attempting to replace the freshly recharged batteries and connecting the cables that one large cable coming or going from someplace inside (really dark place) that it arc'd pretty bad as if something was ON or maybe hooked up backwards. Rechecked everything, jiggled all the cables going into darkness, and seeing nothing was hooked up backwards, I proceeded to re-cable all the leads. No arcing of any kind so that tells me there is a short somewhere but can't tell just yet where! This only happens once in a while and it happened yesterday! Thankfully it happened here at home. It WON'T happen again, because piece by piece, it will all come out and get replaced! Oh and guy also told me that low voltage coming from the batteries would also cause other "fault codes" that are obviously good such as I had 6 faults including the two above. One was low water. It was full to the top! Two was engine over temperature. It was cold (hardly run) when this happened! Three was turbo boost low voltage and four was coolant sensor HIGH voltage! He also told me that DDEC are good when they are working and NOT good when they aren't! DUH! He spent about an hour with me free of charge as I asked him many questions. He did go on to say that even though you AND ME turn off our battery switches, it DOES NOT keep voltage from going to the ECM. It has a steady (very low) draw on the batteries for it to maintain a memory and it should NOT run the batteries down in a month of sitting idle. Mine can't go a couple of weeks without being flat dead. Another tell tale sign that there is a larger drain or short! Bottom line is, so far it looks like a voltage problem that is not the batteries. There must be a short someplace in the chassis coming from the batteries to the ECM that is causing all the erratic fault codes coming from the sensors! Time will tell because as he even stated, electronics like the DDEC's and all of the sensors take time to research! I sure wish I had my DDEC II cartridge for my pro-link now! Ace | ||
| Mike Eades (Mike4905)
Registered Member Username: Mike4905 Post Number: 153 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 68.200.183.92 Rating: N/A |
Ace Call Luke or Bill At U.S. Coach. They know systems well. Mike | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 728 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.117.21 Rating: N/A |
If you have a bad diode in your charging alternator, it will leak current to ground. Also that reverse leakage can cause funny things with some electronics, as those diodes are there to convert AC to DC Check your ground connections from the batteries to wherever they are connected. Poor grounds cause a lot of the problems that we have on our coaches. Especially if the ground connection is any where near the batteries, as the acid fumes can accelerate problems. Unbolt and inspect any grounds, as corrosion is many times, hidden from view between the frame/body and nuts,washers etc. I know your frustration; been there myself many times over the years. When you are ready to sell it, just step back for a day or two if you can or until you can give your thoughts a chance to settle down. Hang in there!!!! Once you find and fix the problem, you'll experience a nice rush till the next problem surfaces. | ||
| Bob Wies (Ncbob)
Registered Member Username: Ncbob Post Number: 213 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 70.221.14.216 Rating: N/A |
Ace, try putting an ammeter between the negative post of the last battery in the group and the negative cable. That will tell you exactly what your battery drain is. If it's more than a few M/amps you've got some tracing to do to find the drain. Of course, best done with everything turned off. Whatever drain the ECM normally puts on the bank will show up in the total. Bob | ||
| Florida Cliff (Floridacracker)
Registered Member Username: Floridacracker Post Number: 334 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 67.8.199.203 Rating: N/A |
Ace, I think you are on the right track. Your old battery drain problem may be the whole reason or just part of this new problem. If I were you I would conquer and divide. Track that battery issue down to the end, and then see if there is really a second problem. Also on your sensors, find out how the sensor operates, I mean if normally open, closed, whatever...Instead of buying ones to replace and see if its the problem, you may be able to ground or open the sensor wire as a bypass method to troubleshoot. Even though it stinks to miss a weekend that you have planned for, I would much rather be fixing the bus in the driveway at home vs the resort. Good luck on your fix Cliff | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 623 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 70.220.8.2 Rating: N/A |
WOW those that were once considered friends finally came out from under their rock and have posted some good information to go by! Thanks...FWIW Cliff, the oil pressure sensor is a sealed unit with just an opening for the wire harness to plug into. Not sure if it operates in an open or closed position but from what I'm told in simple form is that it has a diaphram of sorts inside and when the actual oil pushes against it, it either makes a contact or closes it to send a signal that oil pressure is low and eventually shuts down to save the motor. I was also told that sometimes these sensors leak oil past the diaphram and it gets on top and won't allow the diaphram to move, ultimately not allowing it to do what it's supposed to do which is maintain constant adequate pressure to send a safe signal! Either way, I went out this morning and installed the NEW sensor. I started it up and it ran fine. No lights! No shut down after 30 or so minutes of running it! What this the fix? Who knows? I'm still going to go thru the whole charging system because yesterday I had 13.3-4 volts at idle at times and other times I had 13.8-9 volts. TODAY after only installing the sensor, and NOTHING else, I have a steady 14.0 and flickering to 14.1 volts at idle! It doesn't change at high idle! The service manager yesterday told me it had to have a CONSTANT 14.0 or more volts to the ECM. Could it have been the batteries were just a little low even though they are new? They have been on the shelf since May but you would think that after charcging them, they would have been ok! Scary! Oh and far as the rally goes? I talked to Manny a few times. Seems he is more concerned with my problem than I am but he told me that almost everyone that went there has had a problem or two. One guy got locked out of his coach at the gate while registering and had to break his door lock off to get in! Another had a for sale sign in his window and the park told him he had remove it so they had words. Another drug his toad about 50 miles with the front wheels locked slightly on a turn which eventually wore them down to the cords. Let's see, another guy forgot his water hose and had to bum a ride into town for a new one! Lightning struck an a/c unit so they were without a/c I told. Lightning also struck the parks water pump and everyone was without park water for a period of time! Yea, I guess i missed all the fun for sure! ) Ace | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 730 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.117.21 Rating: N/A |
This is why I always carry a can opener in my pocket in case I get locked out. | ||
| Bob Wies (Ncbob)
Registered Member Username: Ncbob Post Number: 218 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 70.220.14.190 Rating: N/A |
"WOW those that were once considered friends finally came out from under their rock and have posted some good information to go by! Thanks...FWIW" If that was aimed at me, Ace, you have my complete and utter sympathy. Bob | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 625 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 70.220.21.105 Rating: N/A |
Now Bob, REALLY! You know me well enough that if I was REALLY aiming, I surely wouldn't miss! As for "UTTER SYMPATHY"? Save it for those that really can put it to good use! You know who I'm talking about! Your Pal, Ace | ||
| Jim Wilke (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 176 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 69.77.156.44 Rating: N/A |
Ace, you should check another source to be sure what the DC minimum voltage is. I know nothing about DDEC but I know that John Deere's ECM is designed to work down to about 9 volts at which point almost nothing else on the machine will work. Also, nominal DC volts from a healthy battery is about 12.7, right? Charging at 14 would be way too high if you had gell cells or similar. (My world is yachts, most of which have electronic Cats, Deere's & Detroits and virtually all use gell cell start batteries set at about 13.2 charging voltage.) Everything works great. I'll bet the book will say somewhere around 10 V is minimum for it to operate. Jim-Bob | ||
| Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member Username: Doninwa Post Number: 77 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 65.61.96.82 Rating: N/A |
I would agree with Jim-Bob The ECM would need to operate well below 14 volts in a normal 12 volt system. When cranking the engine the voltage goes down from the nominal 12.7 or so. The ECM must operate properly while starting too. It may have it's own storage capacitor/regulator built in to work during periods of low voltage but it still only has around 12.7 volts to charge it with before starting. This would be true if the bus system is 12 volt. If it is a 24 volt system with a regulator designed to maintain 14 volts to the ECM that is another story. So, is the H3 12 or 24 volt? Don 4107 | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 629 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 70.220.250.169 Rating: N/A |
Don, thanks for the reply as well as the others that helped! To be honest, I think the H3 is 12v. Not positive because I have two battery cut-off switches. One 12v and one 24v. All I know is the service manager at DD said the ECM needs 14 constant volts to work properly! I know I had at one time 13.3 and 13.4 and another time I had 13.8 and 13.9 and it would constantly shut down. When I have 14.0 and 14.1 it runs perfectly! Ace | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 612 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.1.180.218 Rating: N/A |
Ace, I am still testing the AC in our bus. I did find a blown fuse (will make a trip to town today for a new one). I will pick uo the new tire for the Cherokee on the way home. Manny forgot to mention I also had to replace the starter on the Cherokee at the Park on Saturday morning. What a weekend! They say sress builds character, guess we should be real characters after this past weekend. Just remember, in the future we will look back and laugh about "that weekend". Kinda like we laugh about how cold it was at our first Bussin' rally. I know, we sure weren't laughing about the weather at the time. At least Paula got to hold a Marmoset monkey, that made her weekend. Jack | ||
| Jack Campbell (Blue_goose)
Registered Member Username: Blue_goose Post Number: 32 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 71.101.55.168 Rating: N/A |
Ace you don't need 14 volts to make the ecm work. I have run with mine down to 11.5 and no problem. The outputs are only 5 volts. The oil sender will shut you down at about 9 lbs. | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Registered Member Username: Niles500 Post Number: 771 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 72.91.168.92 Rating: N/A |
Ace - my chassis is 28 volt - if yours is (and it should be), the 14 volt min. for the ECM would make sense - FWIW | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 630 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 70.220.250.169 Rating: N/A |
Ok NOW I'm really confused! One says no, one says yes! Ace | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1283 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.189.94 Rating: N/A |
Ace - How are the main coach chassis batteries wired together? That will tell you if the chassis is 12 or 24 volt. 8Ds, right? Or Group 31s? Anyway, using 8Ds as an example: Battery One Negative (-) hooked to Battery Two negative (-) hooked to ground = 12 volt. Battery One Negative (-) hooked to Battery Two Positive (+), with Battery Two Negative (-) hooked to ground = 24 volt. (I know you probably already know this, but I'm also helping any newbies here who might be following this thread.) After following a few Google leads, I found an article about DDEC voltages on LPG S-50 engines. Seems that the 9 volts Jim Wilke mentioned above on John Deere's is about the minimum for the DDEC unit to retain it's memory also. Unfortunately, I couldn't find anything on "minimum operating voltage", which I think is more what you're trying to confirm. Wish I could help more. . .  | ||
| Jack Campbell (Blue_goose)
Registered Member Username: Blue_goose Post Number: 33 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 71.101.55.168 Rating: N/A |
Not sure on your DD2, but by the book DD3 and DD4 will work on voltage from 11 to 32 volts. From the book Operating the ECM between 8 and 11 volts may result in degraded engine operation. (Transient operation in this range during engine starting is considered normal for 12 volt systems.) | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 631 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 70.220.219.40 Rating: N/A |
Trying to learn so I bought a DDEC II troubleshooting book. It just came today and man what a book! Just glancing thru it I found that the ECM must have 11.5 volts constantly or it will shut down. Not the 14 volts I was told. Anyway, there are MANY MANY checks I can do to determine what and where the culprit/s lie! Now I need to find that DDEC II cartridge for my code reader! Thanks everyone... Ace | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1284 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.189.94 Rating: N/A |
Ace - Sounds like you're on a roll!! Oh, might I suggest you put Bud to use helping you troubleshoot this pesky DDEC - he can bring you the cold liquids necessary!! LOL |
