| Author | Message | ||
| Jim Schrecengost (Schrec)
Registered Member Username: Schrec Post Number: 36 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 24.2.127.94 Rating: N/A |
First... The previous owner installed spring brakes (pull knob, air is released and brakes lock up) Can the OEM ICC valve be removed and air lines plugged. since it workes completely opposite of the spring brakes. (and it is really in my way of converting) The hand brake has already been removed. Second.. I am overlaying the whole bus floor with plywood and have come to the brake and gas pedal, by raising the floor 3/4 inch will this effect the angle of the gas linkage???? Third.. While removing the gas pedal assy from the floor...I broke the cast aluminium base of the gas pedal, does anyone know of a part number, or have one willing to sell??? And finally.... the gas pedal linkage, the first clevis pin below the floor.. the pin appears to be worn ( two perfectly matched groves in the pin) is this supposed to be there or is it worn? Thanks for all your help. This bus think is very interesting, and my kids are learning a few new cuss words everytime I brake something. Oh well live and learn I quess! Thanks Schrec | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 480 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.40 Rating: N/A |
My 4104 had the same setup when I got it. I've tried everything I know to remove the ICC knob but nothing worked so I left it. I blocked it so it can't be pushed because it is too dangerous. Strangly it locks the rear brakes when it is pushed? It should be the opposite. If yours works when it is pulled it won't cause any problems but mine is directly to the right of the driver and can easily be pushed by accident. My floor overlay stops just in front of the drivers air ride seat. I recommend you do this because it will keep all floor controls as is. If you raise the floor you also will affect the clutch pedal adjustment and travel. Get a good strong piece of Al and make a plate to fit the back of the accelerator pedal if the break allows this. Bolt it in with countersunk head 1/4" screws. The cast Al pedal is easy to work with. Or, a good welding shop can weld it. Clevis pins should not show any signs of wear. While you're doing this check all the linkage clevis pins under the floor, they're probably all worn out. New pins and shackles will go a long way in improving clutch and shift adjustments. There are so many shackles and pins in the system that a little wear in each one will add up to a lot of slack at the rear. I've been through the whole system and it was a big job, especially at the rear cast Al bellcrank. | ||
| Jim Schrecengost (Schrec)
Registered Member Username: Schrec Post Number: 37 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 24.2.127.94 Rating: N/A |
Gus, I dont have a seat yet so do you have any dimensions on where I should stop the floor? I was thinking even with the gear shift. Also do you know of anything that would rejuvenate the floor before installing linoleum? With the ICC valve, yours is blocked so you can't use it, so I am assuming removal would be okay?? Thanks Schrec | ||
| Dan West (Utahclaimjumper)
Registered Member Username: Utahclaimjumper Post Number: 63 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 208.66.38.60 Rating: N/A |
Schrec, if you remove the spring brakes and the PO removed the hand brake, what will be used for a parking brake?? You will certainly need one.>>>>Dan | ||
| Jim Schrecengost (Schrec)
Registered Member Username: Schrec Post Number: 38 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 24.2.127.94 Rating: N/A |
Dan, I am not removing the spring brakes.... I just want to remove the unused ICC control switch and plug the air lines in the tool compartment. | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member Username: Pvcces Post Number: 1124 Registered: 5-2001 Posted From: 65.74.67.130 Rating: N/A |
Jim, I believe that you will find that supply air is sent to a valve that shifts the air system to apply all available compressor air to the rear pots only. This would give you some stopping power if an air line was torn off or a diaphragm blew, if it wasn't one of the rear pots. It also shuts off air to all auxiliary functions. If you plug the supply side line and air your rig up, you can check to see if there is any air leakage from the ICC side of the control. If there isn't, then you ought to be able to abandon the line after capping the valve that it goes to. If you do this, and the rest of the ICC system is left intact, leakage from the double check valve might try to set the ICC circuit. Removal of the other two valves is the only way of being certain that you will not get any interference from that system. Forgetting that it is there could cause problems later on. For what it's worth. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| Jim Schrecengost (Schrec)
Registered Member Username: Schrec Post Number: 39 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 24.2.127.94 Rating: N/A |
Tom, If I would remove the ICC valve and cap the piping on the air pressure cut off and double check valve coming from the ICC would it work? I think your right that the double check valve could leak back and try to set the ICC system but it could do that with the system left operable. I dont think I could remove them becasue they operate other systems as well so I thought of just capping everything would work. Thanks for your input. | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1287 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.189.94 Rating: N/A |
Jim - As to dimensions for stopping the floor overlay, a rough guideline is that the rear of the OEM seat pedestal is almost exactly even with the edge of the step up to the main salon floor from the vestibule. I'll take a look at my coach tomorrow and take some measurements for you. You mentioned that you don't have a driver's seat yet. Be very careful of the seat you choose IF you are keeping the four-speed stick shift. Too long a seat cushion can interfere with your left leg using the clutch. Also, if you choose an air-ride seat, you'll be going up and down a lot each time you shift. BTDT - didn't like it AT ALL! If an automatic, not an issue. Call Luke at US Coach for a new/used baseplate for the throttle assembly: 1-888-262-2434 between 9-5 M-F Eastern. FWIW & HTH. . .  (Message edited by rjlong on September 04, 2007) | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1065 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 74.12.78.172 Rating: N/A |
Regarding push or pull to activate the emergency brakes: Which might have a chance of being more accurate and quicker if you were actually messing your drawers in the midst of a brake failure "emergency"? Find button, wrap fingers and pull? Or fling hand in general direction and whack the button? There is a reason, and much thought, in just about everything GM did with their coaches. There are still a few hold outs in Big Transit who to this day are still plumbing the parking brake to be push to apply, pull to release, Toronto being one of them, with 1700 examples. Pretty easy, left hand knows to push in a transit, right hand knows to pull in the MC8 or in the tractor trailer. Trouble comes with the new coaches, with the parking brake control on the left... Oh well... happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Jim Schrecengost (Schrec)
Registered Member Username: Schrec Post Number: 40 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 24.2.127.94 Rating: N/A |
I am goingt to be keeping the ICC valve (why mess with it if it isn't broke) so does anyone have any pictures of a 4106 drivers area?? Need to get some ideas on where to get a seat and where to mount the icc so that it is out of my way and I can still access the seat with the gear shift. Please email me at schrecengost7@comcast.net Thanks for all the input. Schrec | ||
| george bruton (Tazman632000)
Registered Member Username: Tazman632000 Post Number: 31 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 65.184.69.36 Rating: N/A |
i just did more or less what your doing except i have and air throttle. my floor was sagging bad so i over laid a piece of 5/8 plywood over the whole area and through bolted it and screwed it.i had no problem with putting the brake treadle and throttle up on top of the new plywood, the clutch seems to function correctly as well. i move the icc valve over to the top of the driver control pannel on the flat part above the factory switch panel and replumbed it with the nylon brake line. it worked out well. i drilled one hole staight down thru the floor in side of the electrical panel. you may consider changing over to an air throttle. it will probable make you project a lot eaiser. try nimco salvage yard for a good used one. i can try to post a picture or 2 if you would like. i also bought air ride seat from seats inc. didnt think about the clutch mine has a air assit on the clutch so its pretty easy to push. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 482 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.17 Rating: N/A |
Jim, I'll check the dimensions tomorrow. I think the overlay stopped before the shifter, but not much. RJ probably has it about right. I tried blocking the air lines to the ICC valve and also rerouting them. Nothing I did worked right and I wasn't about to go into tearing out all those connections and valves underneath the driver (The dreaded black hole). I had all I wanted of that place when I overhauled the clutch and shift linkages. I think I have a photo of my brake button setup, it is pretty neat-done by the PO. If not, I'll make one tomorrow and send it via your email address-I haven't mastered inserting photos into the forum yet. It is on the driver's RH slightly aft. Believe me, I won't have any problem finding it in an emergency!! I found out a funny thing yesterday while working on my seat floor mount-when my spring brake is set there is no air to the seat?? I knew the seat was plumbed into the mess going to the ICC and spring buttons but didn't figure on that one. My air ride seat is set a bit too far forward for me but is adjustable. The PO was quite a bit shorter than I. Many do not know how to use an air ride seat. The proper way is to adjust the seat according to the driver's weight so he doesn't hit bottom on bumps. Rougher road calls for more pressure. Air pressure is not meant to adjust the height of the seat. That can be done but the ride won't be right. I love my seat, thanks to the PO for installing it. | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1066 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 74.12.85.19 Rating: N/A |
Hello Gus. You might want to replumb that seat air supply. If the seat or its plumbing has an air rupture, you will have an air integrity problem in the spring brake circuit, which may trigger a much earlier automatic application of the parking brakes than what a leak further out in the system might. The seat really should be plumbed into the auxiliary, beyond a pressure protection valve, not off any of the brake circuits. happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 486 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.10 Rating: N/A |
Well, I may one of these days but I have no desire to go back into the black hole for a while. |