| Author | Message | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 647 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 75.201.95.14 Rating: N/A |
I own one and it's my first experience with one and recently, not to mention since owning it, have had problems with codes that will shut the coach down cold. I recommend that if you own one yourself, spend the money for a code reader. It can really help you with the mass of electronics that can go bad. Nothing like a huge coach stuck on the side of the road due to a single wire or maybe a 10 cent fuse that blew. Not only will the reader determine what and where to look for the problem it can also do a lot of other things for you on your trip such as calculate engine average speed, engine hours, MPG, total fuel gallons used, oil pressure (the TRUE pressure), and even water level water temperature and get this, fuel temperature! It can tell you the serial number of your motor, make, model amd BHP (brake horse power) which mine is 450. I have had the reader almost as long as I have had the coach but never did get the correct cartridge until this past week! I feel secure in knowing that this little computer device will tell me what to look for IF a problem ever arises and it will, and along with a DDEC troubleshooting book I recently purchased for 90 bucks, it can tell me step by step on how to trace and fix the problem! The book is not much help without the reader and the reader is only a little help without the book unless you just want to know what the DD guys will be doing! This is a good way to try and fix these minor things yourself. Minor meaning like a 10 cent fuse or a 70 dollar sensor! A friend who has been having a similar problem just paid 750 big ones to have his coached towed into the DD shop. That's half of what the reader cost NEW! He might have been able to save himself a shop chargeand towing charge if he could have fixed his problem/s himself. I'm glad I finally bit the bullet and got the reader and cartridge. Oh and I have erased all of the historic codes from before I owned the coach. Now if I can just keep it running long enough to use it! LOL Ace | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 498 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.106.211 Rating: N/A |
Ace - Re: "I'm glad I finally bit the bullet and got the reader and cartridge. " Please tell us where you bought all of it? | ||
| Steveggt (Steveggt)
Registered Member Username: Steveggt Post Number: 29 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 71.116.72.37 Rating: N/A |
Hi Ace, I've worked on DDEC engines a bit, and if I recall correctly, the majority of fault codes will register as a Check Engine...you sometimes don't even notice any change in the engine's performance. I can think of three things that will "throw" the Check Engine AND Stop Engine: Low Oil Pressure, High Coolant Temperature, and Low Coolant Level. On most DDEC-equipped buses, there's a way to retrieve the codes without purchasing a reader. Each coach (depending upon year built, manufacturer, and model) typically has a switch that'll "flash" the codes on the Check Engine and Stop Engine dash warning light cluster. Usually, you turn your run control on (don't start the engine), wait for all the warning lights to go out then hold the switch and watch the lights. I can't remember which is which, but one light indcates "active codes" and the other light indicates "inactive codes". I believe there are several websites out there that list the codes for whatever DDEC version you have. Google something like "DDEC fault codes" and see what you get. In any case, you WILL need the reader to clear the codes... Good luck! - Steve | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 648 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 75.201.95.14 Rating: N/A |
John I found the best deal fromApex tools off of Ebay! Steve < Yes I know about the flash codes from the light cluster. Been doing it that way since my purchase. What I was trying to get across was that there are so many other things to know about your equipment from using the reader! Ace | ||
| JC Alacoque (Jc_alacoque)
Registered Member Username: Jc_alacoque Post Number: 45 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 74.127.203.95 Rating: N/A |
Where does the reader plug in? Series 60 DD. | ||
| Jack Campbell (Blue_goose)
Registered Member Username: Blue_goose Post Number: 41 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 71.101.55.168 Rating: N/A |
It would plug in the port under the dash or in the back, with the motor. | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 649 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 216.9.250.61 Rating: N/A |
I would guess all buses are different as mine plugs into a port designated for this purpose and is pretty handy as it's location is right outside the driver side window in a compartment that has things like winshield washer bottle, passenger bell, emergency air latch for the door, Etc.! I never saw or heard of a port in the rear but I'm sure anything is possible on these things! | ||
| Pete/RTS Daytona (Pete_rtsdaytona)
Registered Member Username: Pete_rtsdaytona Post Number: 398 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 208.118.14.128 Rating: N/A |
Ace Have you looked at this product - takes the DDEC Info and lets you customize a "GLASS DASH" on you PC / Laptop The softwares free and the DDDL - (Detroit Diesel Data Link ??) hardware - interface device is reasonable see--> http://www.silverleafelectronics.com/?q=node/7 Pete RTS/Daytona | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 650 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 75.200.42.67 Rating: N/A |
Yea Pete I have seen this before but figured I already have enough problems without adding even more electronic headaches! What I found on mine is there are 2-15amp and 1-30 amp fuses in line that are hard wired straight to the batteries. I know that removing the 15 amp fuses the bus will crank but not start and was told that these are for the ECM. The 30 amp I know feeds something internal because the digital clock goes off when it's removed and stays on when not removed. It probably had something to do with internal lighting which is now gone! My recent test was to make sure all four batteries were fully charged and I had NO codes. Bus ran fine with no shut down! I removed the 3 fuses over night and checked the batteries again this morning. Batteries were fully charged so I re-installed the fuses and as I was doing this there was a minor arcing in all 3. That tells me there is definitely something ON. The bus started right up, no codes and ran fine! This was JUST over night so now I will remove the fuses and do a 3-4 day test to see if the batteries drain. If not, that tells me that the ECM is draining more than just Ma's as they say it should! I have done ALL the troubleshooting step by step from the book and after completing all the necessary steps, it told me there is an "open" wire going to the H3 pin of the ECM which is labeled "low coolant sensor". If it's shorted out somewhere it very well could be the drain I am looking for or actually NOT looking for! The saga continues! Thanks... Ace | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1290 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.189.94 Rating: N/A |
Ace - As our good buddy Fast Fred often said "It's in DA BOOK!" (I mean that in a humorous way. . . LOL) Seriously, your comments bring up a very, very valid point: The shop manuals and parts books are extremely important when working on these (often) complex pieces of machinery. And the supplemental manuals and troubleshooting guides are often worth far more than the $$$ spent to obtain them - not to mention the specialized tools. Kudos to you for sharing your comments on the code reader and cartridge, and how it's assisting you tracking down your electrical drain. Say hello to Susan for me, too!  | ||
| Chuck Newman (Chuck_newman)
Registered Member Username: Chuck_newman Post Number: 232 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 67.126.200.104 Rating: N/A |
The free VMSpc program Pete mentioned above will read all the engine trouble codes, read all the engine/transmission parameters (if you have an electronic tranny),including cruise on/off, set speed, Jake control, digital clock and much more. It will keep track of your millage, total miles driven, keep your maintenance records, and more. The few gauges that came with my bus have been replaced with a 10" LCD that sits in the center of the dash (covers the old 3-1/2" speedo and air gauge) and displays 13 engine parameters. I have only two white mechanical gauges: Air pressure and fuel level. The same program will work on DD, Cummins, and CAT engines. You can customize it to look the way you want and see only what you want. And the price is right. It's only limitation is it won't clear trouble codes due to copyright issues. But I have a Palm unit that will do that. | ||
| Chuck Newman (Chuck_newman)
Registered Member Username: Chuck_newman Post Number: 233 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 67.126.200.104 Rating: N/A |
I should have mentioned most folks don't build a permanent screen and miniature PC dedicated to this function as I did. Most use their notebook computer concurrently running VMSpc and their GPS program while driving. | ||
| quantum merlin (Quantum500)
Registered Member Username: Quantum500 Post Number: 15 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.33.238.169 Rating: N/A |
That is awesome. I all of the sudden have more respect for electric controlled diesels Is there any automotive based programs for cars and pickups that do the same thing? | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 656 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 70.220.16.146 Rating: N/A |
Merlin there are cartridges that fit the pro-link for almost all electronic cars and trucks and even dedicated ones for automatic transmissions! My pro-link is an older version that uses the large cartridge but I understand the newer ones use a very small data card! Big bucks! I have about $600.00 in mine total. $200.00 for the used reader and $400.00 for the new DDEC II cartridge. The reader came with a case and all the plug ins/adapters along with a cartridges for Ford cars and Chrysler cars. If you look on ebay, you can find some pretty good deals. Look for Pro link or MPSI. Also a while back there was a discussion/controversy about fuel mileage and using the pro link is one way to get the true answer. We went back and looked at our notes from our Talladega trip and after comparing them to what was in the memory of the pro link we found that we were off just a little bit. We calculated lower than what the pro link calculated we were actually getting! I think it's a great investment for anyone that has a DDEC! Ace | ||
| quantum merlin (Quantum500)
Registered Member Username: Quantum500 Post Number: 18 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.57.21.17 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the reply. Just for future reference from my experience, computer figured gas mileage calculations should not be treated as the absolute truth. I have a question. Do the DDEC engines have any type of OBD port? I have used a http://www.scangauge.com/ on automotive applications with some good success. The only thing that it does not read that I wish it did is oil pressure. As you can see its quite a bit less expensive than the pro-link with similar features. Except you need a a OBD-II port to make it work. So maybe not applicable to coaches but maybe interesting to someone? |