| Author | Message | ||
| Paul Tillamnn (209.23.54.79)
Rating: N/A |
Hi everyone. I need another opinion from all you knowledgeable people out there in busland again. I was the one that asked about converting a Orion 1 some weeks ago. Now, I found a 1978 MCI MC5C with 314k miles on it in absolutely excellent condition for sale nearby for $5500. Just took it for a test drive and it drives and runs great. Original 8V71 (never had an overhaul), 4spd manual trans., everything works, even the a/c. Good tires (95%) except they are just starting to crack a little. Ex-Navy Academy bus. Seems to have been very well maintained. I did see some leakage around the rear end. I couldn't get underneath to really check the rear end leak out, though. Couldn't find any rust anywhere. Storage bays spotless with no signs of wear (dents) anywhere. Very, very few small dings on the stainless or anywhere for that matter. All latches, locks and hinges worked flawlessly. Is there anything I should look for in particular on this bus? Does the 5C have any chronic rust, structual or mechanical problems? Is $5500 a fair price? Any input or information would be much appreciated. Thanks. | ||
| Luke Bonagura (Lukeatuscoach) (67.194.22.120)
Rating: N/A |
Hi Paul: As we spoke at length yesterday about this coach I won't repeat myself, however at that point you hadn't driven the coach. Before you go any distance, if you buy it, I would definately have the gear oil checked in the differential and make sure that it is full before you take it home. The coach has a differential & drop box assy. which is very unforgiving if run low on gear oil. The cost to replace same with a remanned unit is in the thousand(s)!!!!! Good luck with your decision and the coach if you buy it. LUKE at US COACH | ||
| Scott Whitney (24.205.239.4) Rating: N/A |
Sounds like a great find! Scott | ||
| John G Root Jr (Johnroot) (140.186.114.253)
Rating: N/A |
Sounds good to me too. One thing to consider is whether you will be happy with manual shift for the long haul. I eliminated manual shift in my considerations because I am hopeful my wife will be willing to drive it someday and I knew that with a stick shift that would never happen. | ||
| John G Root Jr (Johnroot) (140.186.114.253)
Rating: N/A |
Also I was impressed by the number of people on the board over the past two years that I have been reading it saying in one way or another: Nobody replaces their automatic with a standard, most people convert to automatic, wish they could, or buy auto in the first place. | ||
| FAST FRED (209.26.87.21) Rating: N/A |
While its true most folks that want a stick coach , just go buy one , the decision to ruin a coach with an auto that it was never designed for comes from FEAR. Most bus buyers are guys that want to look acomplished at what they do . AS many have never driven anything as big as a coach the FEAR of just driving ( with out hitting stuff) gets ADDED to the FEAR of having to learn to shift again. When sob stories get posted of folks that have a hard time shifting ( because they did not take the time to research How to do it, and had no "old Hand" give them a 10 min demo ride) these newbees decide that blowing $5000 and loosing 3-4 mpg is the only way to go.( A present for the wife!) It does take a while to master the technique of shifting , and some coaches take a bit more learning than others. But NONE require more than a demo from someone that knows HOW its done. There are a few that have posted how sorry they are that they went the auto route. Its hard to admit that a big wad of cash went out to actually harm the coach, but there are a few honest folk. Most folks marry other people of similar background and IQ. So if you can learn the stick shift in a few min , SO CAN YOUR BRIDE! Mine is 100 lbs and can drive the stick , and handle NO power steering just fine. Happily she doesnt love to drive , as I do , so spends her time knitting test stuff for next book. But if I had "The Big One" she could follow the "H" signs to the emergency room , no problem. The "convience" of an auto is totally overrated . Think , do you worry about borrowing a friends car because its a stick? Of course not , because your totally familliar with them. Same with a coach, BUT to do it WELL does take practice , and thats where your 100 miles a month maint. drive is as usefull to you as it is a keep alive for your coach. FAST FRED | ||
| Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (216.67.217.230)
Rating: N/A |
Fred, What is this FEAR thing? You do come out with some strange notions don't you. Why does it ruin a coach to install an auto and why shouldn't someone enjoy an auto if they want one. It is not an attack on one's manhood to drive an auto!! Some of us who have driven stick in big rigs for many years like to drive auto too. My wife can drive both types of tranny, but when it comes to town driving, we both would rather drive the auto, it is far more comfortable in my opinion and an option I would install if I saw fit. Mind you I would probably wait until the stick broke or the clutch wore out before doing it. Peter. | ||
| Paul Tillmann (209.23.54.79)
Rating: N/A |
I'm with you, Fred. First, I'm 45 years old now and have been driving manual transmission vehicles since I was 9 years old. I've never owned an automatic car or truck in my life (except the old transit bus I am restoring). Manuals transmissions are much more efficient, less expensive to repair, last longer and keep you on your toes while driving. Actually I believe ALL people should be required to drive a manual on their road test. It's a sure way to see if someome can really handle a motor vehicle properly. Vehicles today isolate you so much from what is going on around you that it is very easy to get "lazy" while driving, hence ACCIDENTS! I've never driven a manual bus before last Thursday and did just fine. In fact, the owner of the coach was very impressed with my handling of the transmission. As far as others driving the coach: Oh well, I guess I'll have to drive!! I viewed the manual transmission in the coach as a definite "plus". And, yes, in most cases it is fear or, for a little better word, intimidation, that people choose an automatic transmission vehicle. Anyway, any opinions on the MCI MC5C I'm looking to purchase?? | ||
| Pete (152.163.213.59)
Rating: N/A |
I wouldnt want mine an auto...though the shifter locks it in 3rd sometimes and its a nightmare to downshift on an unsinchrowed 4 speed..I wouldnt change it for the world..the biggest benefit.....no one could ever figure out how to steal it ;) So..no fanticies about an auto here...just that 10,000 k deisel genset with bells,whistles and that all so popular remote start button.. PJH | ||
| Rick Johnson (12.229.221.41)
Rating: N/A |
Paul, look for water damage to the floor around the front wheel wells, soft spots in the plywood under the vinal covering. Check in the drivers seat access door for the power steering unit and under the front bumper for the spare tire area and inspect this area carefully for rust and excess grease. Small oil leaks in the engine compartment are ok, they are easy to trace back to the source. You will find slobber tubes that allow by pass oil to escape the engine onto the ground, DD makes catch buckets for these if you don't want to deal with the mess. I'm talking small puddles here about the size of a quarter or fifty cent piece. I really liked the 4 speed as well, I couldn't find one when I was looking, but have come to really enjoy the auto. Maybe it's just the bus in general, however, if the sides are straight, no obvious rust or damage, drive the thing for a hundred miles or so and then take it to a DD mechanic for a complete going over. Cost you acouple of hundred dollars, but it's money well spent. If the seller won't agree to this, walk away. It's a buyers marketplace out there and alot of product for sale. $5500 is a good price, I paid about twice that 2 years ago for a 79. This is a 35 foot coach, did you know that there are alot of 40 foot MCI9's out there for under $10K. I like the 5C much better, more sporty, but us 5 owners are the in minority. Once you buy this thing there is no going back, you just don't trade up or down overnight. Alot of converted coaches have been in the marketplace for more than a year. They sure are alot of fun though if you find the passion, good luck and hope to see pictures in the BB someday.....RJ 79 MCI 5C | ||
| Jerry (64.12.102.48)
Rating: N/A |
Auto vrs Manual -- I plan to some day switch to an auto "one of these days." I've driven manuals for most of my life and have no doubt I will master the four speed in my 06. However, I live at the end of a dead end street, no turn around, not much room to manuver AND on a hill.... I suspect I put more wear on the clutch just coming home than all the rest of my driving put together and mulitplied many times. I wish I had another alternative... | ||
| FAST FRED (209.26.87.82) Rating: N/A |
Can't you just back in ? If its up a hill , backing in is really hard , as reverse is close to second, so everything happens fast. Here in Fl the road is small ,no way to turn around, so we just back in , but its also flat as a board. FAST FRED | ||
| Johnny (63.159.201.205)
Rating: N/A |
Non-synchronized manuals aren't hard to drive. I had never driven one before, & picked up the only tough part (downshifting) in about 10 minutes. This was an old GMC 24' box truck with a well-worn Eaton-Fuller 7-speed. I don't even double-clutch on upshifts--I don't find it necessary. When I do my conversion, it WILL be a manual-tranny bus! Also, manuals give MUCH better compression-braking on hills. | ||
| Lin (65.184.0.189)
Rating: N/A |
On the auto verses manual thing, the type of driving can have an influence on preference. I generally prefer auto, but when I lived in the desert with lots of room and flat ground, the manual was just find. Now the area I live in has switchback hills with serious inclines and the manual can be annoying. My own driveway involves a hill so steep coming off a flat spot that the left rear wheels need a 6 inch high, 8 foot long ramp. It is also curved and lined with live oaks. With all the stuff I'm trying to do at once, not having to be concerned with shifting and destroying a clutch would really be nice. Sorry to wimp out. | ||
| Scott Whitney (24.205.239.4) Rating: N/A |
I've got a auto. Never driven a manual bus. My only FEAR would be approaching a hill, missing the downshift(s) and having to do a 15 mile 7% grade in neutral or a high gear. That would be scary. If I spent a lot of my time in FL or East Coast, might be a non-issue. As it is, I am in CA which has no shortage of hills. Now if I had a manual, would I pay big bucks switch to an auto? That is speculation I can't answer. Given my druthers, I'd probably buy a bus with an auto to begin with. However, if that perfect bus I fell in love with were a manual, who knows. . . Scott | ||
| Pete (152.163.213.78)
Rating: N/A |
Missing downshifts  ...I look for the sand traps they have in western PA and WVA..lol Theres no such thing as mastering a 1956 unsincrowed 26,900 lb 5 speed..lol | ||
| Stephen Fessenden (Sffess) (63.27.88.231)
Rating: N/A |
We do better with an automatic because both my Wife and I find it causes pain in our left knee to use the clutch a lot, even in a smaller vehicle. Also I can sell it quicker with an automatic. It's not fear. My wife can learn to drive anything. But the fast reverse is a negative feature of the four speed manuals on GMCs. I like to back up a little slower. Now for you people that feel so comfortable with your Allison automatics on steep grades. Did you ever notice that if the engine RPM reaches 2250 it will upshift whether you want it to or not. You have to use your brakes on a really steep grade to keep the RPM down. At least a manual will stay in the gear you put it in. Try Steubenville, Ohio for a 4 lane main city street with this kind of grade. My Jakes could not keep me below the upshift point without intermittant brake application. | ||
| Scott Whitney (24.205.239.4) Rating: N/A |
Hi Stephen, You're right. I've got a VS2 and no tach. But I know my shift points by the speedo. I drive down hills with one eye on the road and one eye on the speedo and brake hard enough to stay below the shift point. (Usually keeping it in direct drive and denying it OD) Sometimes I miss it and it shifts into OD. Then I have to brake harder to get it to drop again. One of these days, I'll do like Don KS/TX did and rig it up with an override in order to stay in the gear I want. Scott | ||
| Don KS/TX (205.187.92.77)
Rating: N/A |
I understand the OD lockout on a VS2-8 idea was a California thing, invented when the San Francisco bus drivers would get an upshift at a time when they least expected or needed it. You can add one in a couple hours time Scott, so cheap it is almost free. I LOOKED for a shifty transmission when I bought my bus, after all I was proud of how good I could handle my 15 speed Kenworth, macho thing you know. I want to tell you, the bus transmission is not even related to a big truck (or little truck) tranny. I was in bad need of a knee overhaul at the time, but slow traffic in a town was sheer torture. The Allison I put in made it a fun thing to drive, really enjoyable. There are those not too informed that claim reduced mpg with an automatic, did not happen that way to me, I got an INCREASE in mpg. Just make sure your final gearing with the auto is right. In the GMC crowd, the V730 always gives you higher rpm for the same road speed as before, so duh, yep you get poorer mileage, especially when you turn up the governor to try to kkeep up with some traffic at least. Most Allisons are locked up (or out) when cruising, so there is no slip or heat generation as some will try to tell you either. Try running your car in low gear for a tank of gas and check the mileage. Then try it for a year or two and watch how fast the engine seems to show signs of wear. | ||
| John G Root Jr (Johnroot) (140.186.114.253)
Rating: N/A |
Don, What is the right final gearing? My 4106 was built as a 4 speed manual and had a 730 put in around 1973. I have no idea what the final ratio is and would like to know what it should be so when I find out what it is I can investigate changing it to what it should be. By the way I thought the V730 was a three speed, but it shifts at about 20 mph again at about 40mph and between 50 and 55 mph it shifts again. That is 4 gears. Why do people refer to it as a three speed? Thanks, I appreciate what I'm learning from you all. | ||
| Randy Fulkerson (Desertstarservi) (24.221.237.204)
Rating: N/A |
John, The 4106 stock Differential would be 4-1/8:1 or the optional Ratio of 4-3/8:1. The 4-1/8 is the fastest gear set for the 4106. The last shift that you are feeling is the torque converter lock up. The V730 is a 3 speed. Randy | ||
| FAST FRED (209.26.87.20) Rating: N/A |
The difference in speed on the 730 is caused by the gearing after it leavs the tranny and before the differental. For a 4 speed the OD is .80 , for the slush pump the OD is .875. At 2000 rpm you will lose about 6 to 8 mph depending on tire diameter. Best is the 24.5 wheels to make for about half the speed loss. FAST FRED | ||
| Don KS/TX (205.187.92.246)
Rating: N/A |
Well, Fred and Randy got it all to you first. You can see what happens. One note, 24.5 tires come in Lo Profile (which I am running) and Hi Tread. There is quite a bit of difference in size, use it to your advantage as a ratio changer. My 24.5 tires are SMALLER in diameter than the 20 inch originals I took off. With my .60 ratio on my Allison VS2/8, I need as small as I can find. | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong) (24.127.8.58)
Rating: N/A |
Ah, Fred, a slight correction: The bevel gearsets are between the engine and transmission on the later production GMC coaches. The 4104 and earlier models had them between the gearbox and driveshaft. Change was made to accomodate the greater torque of the V-8 engines. Just keepin' you on your toes, good buddy. . . 8^) RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior) (64.229.213.4)
Rating: N/A |
Hello all. Regarding the comment about automatic transmissions upshifting on their own, when you don't want them to, at high rpm: Do you really want your engine spinning any faster than that? I hope everyone is diligent to keep their engine speeds under control when decending the mountain, regardless of transmission type. The automatic transmission is trying to do you a favour by upshifting to not overspeed the engine. Don't force the engine into overspeed. This is especially important for the manual transmission folks, since it is very easy to overspeed the engine in a lower gear, trying to keep the speed under control. Easy rule for good form and long engine life: for any given gear, don't let the bus run downhill any faster in that gear than what it runs against the governor on the flat. Brake linings are cheaper than drive lines! (Thanks to DD for an engine that will suffer abuse like few of its peers) happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Jerry (64.12.102.32)
Rating: N/A |
Fred - regarding my 3/30 post -- unfortunately backing not a practical option -- the dead end street here is very narrow and begins with steep down hill, then steep uphill, then sharp 90 degree turn, flat for a short distance, then down hill again to my house. Traveling with a trailer too is even more fun -- Oh well |