| Author | Message | ||
| Cameron Jones (Crazy71)
Registered Member Username: Crazy71 Post Number: 61 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 72.49.253.33 Rating: N/A |
I have a big bouncy problem. Last time I drove my MCI 8, the front would sink down when I am stopped. It would air up when I was rolling. Now it will not air up at all. It is on the bump stops. I took the center fill line loose and put shop air to it(1/4 npt convenient) and it airs right up but looses air quickly. All of the bags are holding with no leaks, I can hear the air going into the frame rails on each side....but I can't hear any leaks. I am stumped!! With no one around here (Dayton, OH) that knows these old coaches. I have run my hand around the frame in the wheelwell and used soap bubbles...It is leaking quickly but I can't find it.... PLEASE HELP or advise. Thanks | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1307 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.189.94 Rating: N/A |
Cameron - MC-8s used air beams - boxed in steel members above the air bellows - to help "soften" the ride. Problem was that sand/silt would get on top of the beams, then get wet. Over a period of time, especially in the Rust Belt, the beams develop pin hole leaks. Virtually impossible to fix these, unless you totally want to tear the chassis apart and make new ones. However - All is not lost. All the major suppliers for the bus industry have kits to eliminate the air beams with block off plates. You remove the old air bellow, bolt the plate in place, install the new air bellow, and attach the air supply line to the plate. Bingo! Problem solved. Call Luke at US Coach on Monday morning, and he'll have what you need on it's way to you the same day via UPS and plastic money. 1-888-262-2434 between 9-5 Eastern, M-F. Great supporter of the busnut community, fair prices, too. Support those who support us! As for your comment about "no one around here (Dayton, OH) that knows these old coaches", it's obvious to me that you do not have a copy of the Bus Garage Index - a bus owner's friend. Lists every bus garage in the USA and Canada - shows you've got Buckeye Charters right there in town, and they're probably an MCI operator. It pays to take the shop foreman to lunch!! The Index is available from www.busride.com - order off the link on the LH side of the main page. Probably the BEST $40 you'll ever spend on your bus. Don't leave home w/o one!! FWIW & HTH. . .  | ||
| Cameron Jones (Crazy71)
Registered Member Username: Crazy71 Post Number: 62 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 195.189.142.217 Rating: N/A |
Thank you so much for the help. . . And fast reply. I have heard of the plates but never seen them up close. I thought that if you needed them, it would be easy to see the leaking area. I had the wrong idea of what they were and did. I thought they somehow repaired or sealed the frame/beam. I see now that they block off the air at the bellows so air on longer gets in the frame chamber. I guess i better do both sides?. . . So i have to put one on each bellows, so 4 total. I don't know if i want to tackle it, so i might have to take it somewhere. There is a goodyear truck tire place that is great for tires and brake adjustments, but i don't know if this is something they could do. Thanks again for the info. | ||
| Dennis_johnson (Dennis_johnson)
Registered Member Username: Dennis_johnson Post Number: 7 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 69.19.14.33 Rating: N/A |
You might try North Dayton Truck Service and see is this is something they are able to take on. They have worked on My MCI 7 on several occasions. Whitworth Bus Sales in Miamisburg has also sometimes been able to do outside bus service. Good Luck. Dennis | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1308 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.189.94 Rating: N/A |
Cameron - You have a bus, not a truck. Many busnuts have found out the hard way that truck service centers "learn how to do something" on a bus at your expense. Far better to take it to a bus company - they've got the experience the truck shops don't. Look in your phone book for charter bus companies in your area, call and ask for the shop foreman. When he comes on the line, ask him if they do "outside work". If so, tell him you've got an MCI MC-8 that needs the front "plated air bag kits" installed on all four bellows, and ask when can they do the work. If they don't do outside work, ask who they'd recommend. If you get the same recommendation from several foreman, you know you've got a decent shop to work with. And yes, it would be smart to do the whole front axle, not just one side. It's not a difficult job, just time consuming and dirty messy, not oily messy. You MUST jack up and secure solidly the body for this project - don't want another crushed busnut!! FWIW & HTH. . . | ||
| Cameron Jones (Crazy71)
Registered Member Username: Crazy71 Post Number: 63 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 72.49.253.33 Rating: N/A |
Your right about the truck companies. Most admit they don't see many/any buses. Others won't admit they don't know much about buses and charge you to learn as you said. I had an experience like this. Didn't solve my problem though. I am going to get some parts on the way in the morning. I have read a bit about it and have a question? I have seen the block off kits with new air bag and bolts etc. Mohawk has them and MCI Parts sells what I think is about the same. MCI's says it is a 10 inch bellows with an internal stopper that controls rest height to 4.5 (front). Are there just plates that can be used with my original bags? I think this can be done, but this is what gives a rough ride since you lose the beam air volume. The newer design bag holds more volume and tries to compensate.... Do I have this right? I think I can handle the job. The blocking up is the hardest part. I have only jacked it up with bottle jacks under the susp jacking point. I will have to support it by the body for this. What is the proper way? Railroad tie underneath across the body? I do have a shop that has done tires and brake adjustment for me....I think they would jack it up and pull the front tires for me and let me put the bags in. They didn't seem to have a problem with me being in the shop last time I was there. Is there a proper place to jack up the body?? Thanks again RJ. | ||
| Douglas Wotring (Tekebird)
Registered Member Username: Tekebird Post Number: 263 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 71.59.75.212 Rating: N/A |
Buckeye Charters (937) 879-3000 8240 Expansion Way Huber Heights, OH Map Paul's Bus Svc Maintenance (513) 742-1854 3561 W Kemper Rd Cincinnati, OH Map Lakefront Lines Inc (513) 829-8290 See reviews on Local 4991 Factory Dr Fairfield, OH Map | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 660 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 166.165.196.148 Rating: N/A |
There are block-off plates and there are Rolling Lobe Airbags. Block-off plates are cheaper, eliminate the air beams, and use your air bags, but give a harsher ride. Rolling lobe air bags replace your air bags, eliminate the air beams,and give a softer ride, but are more expensive. Your choice. Jack | ||
| Cameron Jones (Crazy71)
Registered Member Username: Crazy71 Post Number: 64 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 72.49.253.33 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Jack. This is the conclusion I came up with also. Then I called US Coach this morning and got a curve ball....be it a good one.. I was told that the "new style one piece bags that look more like the ones on the tags" ride hard. The guy there even said they had taken some off to put orininal syle with plates for a better ride. Sounded backwards to me.. but he assured me this was the deal. I found the Mohawk replacements for 153.56 each. MCI wanted a over 850.00 for the front kit. The block off plates to use my old bags or new original style were 54.36 each with bolts 1.00 something each. Bolts seem high, but plates sound pretty good. I can get some longer bolts about anywhere. Even with a "harder ride" than factory....anything will be better than resting on the little rubber bump stops that it is hammering onto now.....lol. | ||
| Earl Bonnell (Earl8ky)
Registered Member Username: Earl8ky Post Number: 6 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 207.162.163.22 Rating: N/A |
You can get bolts anywhere but they will not be the right bolts. It takes a special bolt for the air bags. | ||
| Cameron Jones (Crazy71)
Registered Member Username: Crazy71 Post Number: 65 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 72.49.253.33 Rating: N/A |
I did order all the bolts from them...I read somewhere about them being machined smaller not to rub the bags.... | ||
| James Stacy (Jimstacy)
Registered Member Username: Jimstacy Post Number: 110 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.40.239.186 Rating: N/A |
There were at least 2 different bolt head designs. They must be properly matched to the rings. The unusual shape of the head must lock into the ring to pervent rotation and the tapered shape will not gouge the bag fabric. My small experience is not to try to reuse the bags. They dry and crack and sooner or later they will fail with disasterous results. You are doing most of the work by changing the ring and installing the plate, put new bags on and have some peace of mind. Whether you use the convoluted bag or the rolling lobe, you will be happier with new bags. They are MUCH easier to change at home than on the roadside. IMHO BTW the old bolts can be a pain to remove; a flame wrench works best. VERY unlikely you will save them all for reuse. Best to just buy new bolts with the rings. Jim Stacy | ||
| doug yes (Dougg)
Registered Member Username: Dougg Post Number: 40 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 75.89.20.95 Rating: N/A |
Check for frame cracks where the suspension beams are welded to the frame. I've seen a coach that had to run from Montreal to Toronto without the air bags functioning. This harsh ride caused many welds to crack on the frame/suspension joints. It cost a small fortune to repair. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 276 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 76.168.69.233 Rating: N/A |
The cure for the rough ride with blockoff plates is a small reservoir plumbed between the leveling valve(s) and the bags. Does the same thing as the air beams! George |