| Author | Message | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Registered Member Username: Chucks Post Number: 1137 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.2.80.29 Rating: N/A |
Using compression fittings, is just the ferrule needed, or is the push-in insert needed as well? I didn't think so, but finding the answer is a little elusive. Thanks, as always! PS: I know. Don't overtighten. | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member Username: Drivingmisslazy Post Number: 2006 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.108.78.224 Rating: N/A |
I believe the push in insert is only needed when using plastic line. Not on copper line. Richard | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Registered Member Username: Chucks Post Number: 1138 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.2.80.29 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Richard, I am referring to nylon line. | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 113 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 76.4.149.200 Rating: N/A |
hey miss lazy LOL they are using push-in and compression fittings on Everything now with good results | ||
| John Jewett (Jayjay)
Registered Member Username: Jayjay Post Number: 376 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 66.136.100.70 Rating: N/A |
To be safe (and legal) you must use the insert, and the line has to be imprinted as rated for airbrake service. A DOT number is involved, depending on the grade of tube. The insert allows the tubing to operate at higher pressures, since the most likely failure point is at the ferrule/insert junction. The insert keeps the ferrule from cutting the tubing if overtightened, or strained sideways. To be safe buy it at a truck supply house. Cheers...JJ | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Registered Member Username: Chucks Post Number: 1139 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.2.80.29 Rating: N/A |
Thanks, JJ. I am using the real DOT airbrake imprinted tube, but on the four fittings I've done so far without the insert it just didn't seem right. Then I discovered the inserts mentioned at one of the online parts places, but they weren't clear if they were needed for that type of tube. Something told me I'd better be sure. So I'll tear it apart and do it RIGHT! Many thanks, Chuck | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 662 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 70.152.57.103 Rating: N/A |
I was told that the inserts that fit inside the nylon tubing is to prevent the ferule (crush ring) from crushing the nylon tubing. Jack | ||
| Debbie and Joe Cannarozzi (Joe_camper)
Registered Member Username: Joe_camper Post Number: 64 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 71.239.202.82 Rating: N/A |
The newer fittings require none of the above. They themselves are nylon and you simply push the line in and it is done. No tools necessary. If you have seen the new plastic supply side plumbing fittings the air counterparts were actually around first. They are also quick release and reusable. They have a collar or ring that you compress to remove the line. Paccar has been using them on semis for some time now. I update to them whenever I have to remove a line. A huge improvement and great for tight spots when you need to double wrench the brass ones to keep the line from twisting. They also do not damage, squeeze, the end of the line thus allowing it to be used over and over and over. The fittings are completely reusable too. This is a T pictured but they come in any configuration the old brass stuff did including all compression to pipe combinations. Check um out!  | ||
| Sammy (Sammy)
Registered Member Username: Sammy Post Number: 76 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 68.237.226.130 Rating: N/A |
If you are using the standard style compression fitting, make sure it's for nylon hose, not copper pipe. It will have a nut,ferrule, and an insert for the line - must use all to make a proper connection. if using the newer style "pushlock" connectors or fittings you just need to make sure the end of the nylon line is cut clean and square, then just push it into the fitting until it bottoms out. Good luck with your repair. | ||
| John Lacey (Junkman42)
Registered Member Username: Junkman42 Post Number: 18 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 204.49.140.158 Rating: N/A |
The ferrule is not used with dot legal fittings. Ferrules are used with nylon hose when You use pushlock fittings which are not dot legal to use on any air system involving air brake systems. My exeperience with push lock fittings has been a little less than sterling. Just My two cents worth. John | ||
| Ed Roelle (Ed_roelle)
Registered Member Username: Ed_roelle Post Number: 46 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 69.136.130.161 Rating: N/A |
I have had the same luck as John relative to the push lock fittings - poor. There are some DOT fittings that integrate the ferrule. In fact, they have DOT imprinted on them. I buy them at a truck parts supply company. Ed Roelle Flint, MI | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 114 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 76.4.149.200 Rating: N/A |
hey ya'll check on school busses.. The one we get for transportation have the push lock fittings on them and they are dot approved. | ||
| Debbie and Joe Cannarozzi (Joe_camper)
Registered Member Username: Joe_camper Post Number: 65 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 71.239.202.82 Rating: N/A |
If the new fittings are not DOT legal somebody better tell Mac and Peterbilt and Kenworth and Freightliner and Volvo among others because all the new trucks coming out of the factory have them. I have never had a problem with them. | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 663 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 98.132.83.148 Rating: N/A |
I have not seen plastic push-on fittings that were DOT approved. I have used DOT approved brass push-on fittings. I was hesitant to use these until I was assigned a new ambulance that had the brass push on fittings. These fittings will have "DOT Approved" stamped on them. I purchase mine from McMaster-Carr. Jack | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Registered Member Username: Chucks Post Number: 1143 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.240.90.104 Rating: N/A |
To answer the original question, YES. The proof was seeing the condition of the ferrules done the day before (without any inserts) when I cut them all off to insert the inserts with new ferrules. Without the insert, the ferrule can't stay straight and becomes deformed and twisted. Mucho-hardo to make airtight. I'm still lurnin! And next time will look at all the fancy new stuff. I'll be back in just a few days with brake chamber questions! ;) | ||
| Debbie and Joe Cannarozzi (Joe_camper)
Registered Member Username: Joe_camper Post Number: 66 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 71.239.202.82 Rating: N/A |
When we turn off our bus and do not use any air accessories it will be 2 days before the aux air compressor kicks on and that is at 75lbs and after that it will kick on maybe once every 36hrs or so. Thing is I am unsatisfied with that and am trying to improve on those #s Dot says you can loose something like up to 10 lbs in 15 mins. and you are O/K. Sometimes the things people put trust in and are skeptical about kill me. Even if the plastic fittings are not approved I am wondering what the difference is, safety wise, between a plastic air line or a fitting? If you prefer use the brass push in fittings, I have seen them too. Be sure to strip out all that plastic line for copper tubing too. Never know when the DOT will hold an inquisition. (Message edited by Joe camper on November 06, 2007) (Message edited by Joe camper on November 06, 2007) | ||
| Brian Elfert (Belfert)
Registered Member Username: Belfert Post Number: 40 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 209.98.146.235 Rating: N/A |
I recently replaced a tee in an air line with a coupler since I no longer have an air operated door. The coupler the truck parts place sold me is a pushlock brass fitting. No mention was made of any inserts and the fitting doesn't leak. The fitting was not cheap in part because of the DOT stamp. I have a number of pushlock fittings in the accessory air lines on my bus and they don't appear to have inserts. My bus will hold air for weeks or months during the spring, summmer, and fall. It will only hold air a few days during the winter so I probably have a bit of moisture somewhere. Maybe the inserts should really be there, I don't know. My bus is Mexican made and they may have skimped on these things. (Message edited by belfert on November 05, 2007) | ||
| Sammy (Sammy)
Registered Member Username: Sammy Post Number: 77 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 68.237.226.130 Rating: N/A |
The only pushlock fittings I use are brass and DOT approved. | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Registered Member Username: Chucks Post Number: 1148 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.240.247.161 Rating: N/A |
Yeah Brian, but I was originally not asking about pushlock fittings. Maybe next time I'll hunt them down. Hey this morning was my first 24 hours of full suspension without settling down on the blocks. I'm getting there! | ||
| Brian Elfert (Belfert)
Registered Member Username: Belfert Post Number: 41 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 132.148.80.215 Rating: N/A |
Opps, the topic kinda drifted through all the posts. I did use a compression type air fitting once, but it was just for the air ride seat so any slight restriction wouldn't really matter. |