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Redlabel (Redlabel)
Registered Member
Username: Redlabel
Post Number: 7
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 208.72.151.11
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 6:21 am: | |
I'll retry since on my first try I did not give enough information on the bus.
I'm looking for help in how to charge the fuel line on my 1983 MCI-9 Crusader with a Detroit Diesel 6V92 engine.
I'm in North Dakota and the just can't get it started. It smokes white smoke like crazy but doesn't fire. It has always been a good starter even after sitting over the winter. Temperature is probably not the problem since I tried this in early September and then when hunting season started the dogs wouldn't let me stay home on weekends.
Just looking for some advice where to start before calling the local DD shop.
Thanks for any help. |
Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member
Username: Jackconrad
Post Number: 664
Registered: 12-2000
Posted From: 98.132.72.222
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 7:48 am: | |
If you are getting a lot of white smoke, you do not have a fuel problem. The white smoke is unburned fuel. Is your engine a DDEC or mechanical injector? If it is a mechanical injector, it sounds like the emergency shut down flapper has the air intake blocked at the top of the blower (had a similar situation on my 8V71). If it is a DDEC, I do not know what to look for. |
Ed Roelle (Ed_roelle)
Registered Member
Username: Ed_roelle
Post Number: 47
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 69.136.130.161
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 8:21 am: | |
I few weeks ago we were trying to start a bus with similar symptoms. I thought the same as Jack, white smoke, not a fuel problem. However, it started immediately after we primed the system with more fuel.
We used a cheap, plastic, garden sprayer filled with diesel fuel. We screwed a fitting into the secondary fuel filter housing to make sure the injectors and pipes were getting plenty of fuel. We also pumped the sprayer while cranking. (Necessary or not ??)
You may have a different problem, but for less than $20 you can have you own priming system.
By the way, we used this successfully on 2 other buses that day, that were not smoking white. (The first bus smoked HEAVILY white - not wimpy.)
There was another experienced bus nut there that was surprise at how effective this worked.
Ed Roelle
Flint, MI |
Dallas (Dal300)
Registered Member
Username: Dal300
Post Number: 172
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 70.146.176.147
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 9:07 am: | |
Red Label,
Where in North Dakota are you?
If you are anywhere near Fargo I can give you the phone number of an excellent Detroit 2 stroke guy who is retired but still dabbles.
Dallas |
Donald P Hann (Eagle19952)
Registered Member
Username: Eagle19952
Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2007
Posted From: 98.196.153.247
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 11:20 am: | |
Hello,
This being my first post so perhaps my credibilty will be suspect,so a bit about my self first,I had spent the last 30 years working in the oil fields of arctic Alaska as a heavy eq mechanic.
Ed Roelle is steering you in the right direction,if in fact lack of fuel or loss of prime is your problem,which if as you say your bus "ran great" prior to this instance.
Were I you I would assure my self that the secondary fuel filter was over flowing with fuel,loosen it and see.
Next find a pump,a garden sprayer will work but a 12v electric cheapy is better,hook up the pump to the additional 3/8 pipe plug and pump fuel till the filter over flows,tighten it up immediately,next,I would have a can of ether handy and would have already removed my air filters or had air intake access down stream of the filter housing.
2 stroke Detroits are not damaged by ether,use a lot,(20 or 30 seconds worth),(having worked for contracters under performance pressures,I have seem instances where job superintendants,eq operators,truck drivers,have force fed multiple cans of ether into DD's at 40 below zero to "help me" while I was enroute to facilite/repair the outage/no start complaint.)
Any DD whose primary home is north of the Mason Dixon line deserves preliminary/auxilary pre heating.
Down to about 10 degrees I would highly suggest at least an engine oil pan heater.
These are simply a silicone pad heater with 110v plug in,wattages up to 500w,IIRC,a 150 watt should be plenty.It might be 4x5 Go here.
http://www.warehouseautoparts.com/Specials/Kat/Kats_24150_Silicone_hotpad_oilpan_heater.ht m
Having said this if utilizing an auxilliary pump,priming the fuel system from a 5 gallon can,assisted with ether works and then fails when reassembled my guess is you have a suction leak on the your fuel system.In many instances this is as simple as a filter seal contracting due to temperature drop,have you had your fuel filters serviced lately?
Keep us posted.
I have been an avid reader here for a long time,great to be aboard.
Don H. |
James Robinson (Jjrbus)
Registered Member
Username: Jjrbus
Post Number: 102
Registered: 12-2000
Posted From: 71.51.167.56
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 6:41 pm: | |
I find this confuseing?? If there is lots of white smoke to my way of thinking it is unburned fuel. Where is the smoke coming from? What would lead you to belive it is a lack of fuel causeing the problem???????
Welcome Don, I hope you brought a few barrels of oil back with you!!! |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member
Username: Pvcces
Post Number: 1142
Registered: 5-2001
Posted From: 65.74.67.83
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 9:41 pm: | |
James, I think that you are right about the smoke. However, if there is air in the fuel supply, ignition can easily be fouled up. With enough heat in the chambers, the engine would start on the smoke that you see.
If the temperatures are low enough with a given fuel, the fuel may not atomize sufficiently to ignite easily.
We have seen a situation here in Ketchikan where the cetane rating was too low to start engines. With a change of fuel, the same engine started fairly easily and was a lot quieter when it did start.
I would go as easy as possible with the ether.
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher
Ketchikan, Alaska |
JR Lynch (Njt5047)
Registered Member
Username: Njt5047
Post Number: 194
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 69.132.233.230
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 10:28 pm: | |
Unless modified, the bus would be an MUI.
How much fuel do you have in the tank? And is the bus sitting level? If low fuel and driver's side is down, you got air in fuel system.
I parked my MC9 with the drivers side downhill once with about a 1/4 tank of fuel and it did what your's is doing...white smoke. NO go. Added fuel and primed the thing. Away it went.
Rule out lack of fuel with a shot of ether. If it starts, you may as well install a primer pump. They are handy items. Parallel an automotive fuel pump into the fuel supply line. Install a ball valve in the supply line so that it can be closed whenever the primer pump is running. The ball valve should be between the primer pump Tees. This will force fuel thru the engine rather than just recirculating fuel in the supply line. Place it in the fuel tank fill compartment and you'll have 12V off of the rear crank battery for power. Located in the engine room, you'll probably need a 24V pump, or a voltage 24/12 converter. This device can be mounted next to the input side of the primary fuel filter.
Have you cracked any fuel lines or changed any fuel filters? Any other work done on the engine?
Not at all sure that a 6V92TA has a "trap-door", don't believe it does. Turbo engines don't have emergency shutdowns? Be sure that the rear control box is set to "front" "run", and that the skinner valve isn't stuck.
If the bus won't start on ether, it ain't fuel.
Then it becomes more complicated. Ether rules out fuel pump and fuel issues.
Could be blower shaft, turbo, or some sort of mechanical failure.
The RH valve cover can be easily pulled to check for cam problems. It can if you don't have a crapper holding tank in the way...?
Also possible that the pickup or supply line has a leak, or the pickup is occluded with bad fuel? Ether will tell you where to look.
If it starts on ether, look at the fuel system, if it doesn't...bummer.
Good luck, JR |
John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member
Username: John_mc9
Post Number: 543
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 66.217.105.155
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 11, 2007 - 1:59 am: | |
I'd try charging each of the 12v batteries to the max, prior to trying again.
If the engine ain't turning over fast enough, it ain't gonna' start, but it'll sure
produce a wealth of white smoke.
FWIW - TCIITM |
Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member
Username: Pd41044039
Post Number: 214
Registered: 2-2001
Posted From: 69.77.146.206
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 - 9:18 pm: | |
JR Lynch
The 6V92 probably does not have the emergency stop flap. Those were used when the throttle rack arms were fixed and if one injector hung up it would hold the throttle from returning to idle. Detroit redesigned the later 71 series rack arm to be spring loaded on return so if one sticks, the rest of the rack & injectors can return to idle. (Changes an emergency into an inconvenience as the stuck injector makes her smoke & knock.)
Jim-Bob |
Hans (Buellhans)
Registered Member
Username: Buellhans
Post Number: 93
Registered: 2-2007
Posted From: 199.60.189.9
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 3:12 am: | |
So is the blower drive intact? If da blower dont turn she could be puking raw unburned fuel . Only a thought . Seen them after you shut down the turbo gives it the last little bit of boost and the crank is stopped finishes off a worn blower drive . Back of bellhosing in line with blower take the cover off and pull the blwoer drive . Who knows? |
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