| Author | Message | ||
| Doyle Gaither (Texasborderdude)
Registered Member Username: Texasborderdude Post Number: 90 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 75.204.157.215 Rating: N/A |
Okay, here I am in Indy to have the front-end aligned... and they say the steering box is worn out and has to be replaced or rebuilt. When stopped, and power off, there's "slop" in the steering wheel; you can saw it back and forth about 1/8 turn right and left before it stops solid. It's not totally loose cause it takes a little effort. The wrench sez that it's been adjusted to maximum. When driving there's about 2 or 3 inches "play" in the steering wheel, so I'm constantly turning the wheel side to side to get "positive" control of the steering which gets quite tiring. What's the availability, affordability and neccessity for replacement/rebuild? Thanks, dg ps Eagle 05 with power steering (Message edited by TexasBorderDude on November 09, 2007) | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Registered Member Username: Chucks Post Number: 1162 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.240.246.33 Rating: N/A |
Hiya Doyle! You might want to look at this thread: http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/233/10434.html It's regarding an Eagle 10, but it might be of some help. I think I remember that the commercial standard is 2 inches of free play, with the engine running, sitting still. | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 137 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.49.138 Rating: |
Doyle,the 5s have rod that goes back from the steering box to a unit called a pitman where the tie rods connect for each wheel this unit has bearings inside of it and very seldom is greased and the bearing fail 95% of the time this is the problem when you get a bunch of over and under steer if you look on your lube chart columm 1 you will see it if you have a manual and not a parts book.I don't why Eagle calls this a pitman on the lube chart.if you have any slack what so ever in this unit it will feel like lot on the steering wheel. good luck (Message edited by luvrbus on November 09, 2007) (Message edited by luvrbus on November 09, 2007) | ||
| Doyle Gaither (Texasborderdude)
Registered Member Username: Texasborderdude Post Number: 91 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 70.210.45.225 Rating: N/A |
Chuck: thanks for the link. I see most of your posts.... good work! Luvr: thanks to you too! I'm going to winter in Tampa, so once I get stopped... I'll tear into it. dg | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 138 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.49.138 Rating: N/A |
Doyle, i will make one more comment on this problem you are having with the steering on your bus.It is not that old i don't if Brown had it installed or it was installed just before he bought the bus. 05s did not come with power steering it was always added.But if i were you i would check the mounting bolts and plate at the steering box because i have seen the bracket break because it was not reinforced when the new unit was installed.Have a great day and lots of fun (Message edited by luvrbus on November 09, 2007) | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 123 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 76.4.149.200 Rating: N/A |
doyle I may know wher a box might be and related parts for an eagle. so keep me updated | ||
| Jack Campbell (Blue_goose)
Registered Member Username: Blue_goose Post Number: 52 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 71.101.164.147 Rating: N/A |
If you are going to wait until you get to Florida, call John at Mid Florida Tran. in Lakeland Fl. He may have one and can install it for you. They have lots of Eagle parts. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 289 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 76.168.69.233 Rating: |
Doyle, Here's a quick and fairly easy way to diagnose where your problem is. Get a flashlight, and someone else to turn the wheel while you look under. Have them turn the wheel, (engine off) as far as they can without scrubbing the tires, what you are looking for is slack. Turn one way, then the other, back and forth. You can see the input into the box from the steering wheel, and the arm that it moves is actually the Pitman arm. If the box moves on the frame, TROUBLE, fix it before you drive! If the input turns a long ways before the Pitman arm moves, loose box. Most of them are adjustable with a wrench and an allen, (called bearing pre-load) IF the allen can't be turned in any more, (with the lock nut loosened!) the box IS worn. If the Pitman arm moves as soon as the wheel is turned, then look at the ball joint on the end of it, then the tie rod ends, and lastly the king pins, for slack. Wherever you find slop, is what's worn... FWIW, George | ||
| Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member Username: Dreamscape Post Number: 168 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 64.40.222.139 Rating: N/A |
With such a gorgeous bus, and your life at the wheel. I would not drive it unless a qualified mechanic says so and get it in writing. If it was me I would find the problem and fix it before driving it. All who have posted give great advice. | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 542 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.105.155 Rating: N/A |
Steering Inspection Fails, if lash (play) is over: | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 139 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.49.138 Rating: N/A |
John forgot some of my math but on a 22"steering wheel from the center would that not be less than 1"actual lash on the wheel to have the 5 3/4" | ||
| Doyle Gaither (Texasborderdude)
Registered Member Username: Texasborderdude Post Number: 92 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 75.218.8.222 Rating: N/A |
Thanks to all! My 05 actually has p/s and a/t from the factory, I have the paperwork. The wrench from Indy was very knowledgeable and did the exact test that MC9 suggested. He said the preload was already at max, and his opinion it was not mechanically dangerous, just tiring to drive. It's to damn cold here in Columbus so I'm headed south. I'm officially 0 for 3... I saw the Bears beat the Packers; Indy loose to the Pats; and now #1 Ohio State knocked off!!! Anyone want me to go see your team play? dg | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 544 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.107.113 Rating: N/A |
Those above figures are straight from the inspection guidebooks, as the links will prove true. You can find thousands of references to that same data with a simple "Google"; It's the accepted figures. (Keep in mind, that the play, or lash, indicated for "power steering", is measured with the engine off). My experience driving Eagles dates back to the 1960s, and I never drove one with power steering.... But I do remember the usual 1/4+ wheel amount of play. In fact, I can't remember -ever- driving -any- make bus (during the 60s thru 80s; for any company), without experiencing at -least- 2" worth of steering wheel play. It was just something to be expected and lived with. It was never considered to be a "problem" by any driver. I personally wouldn't knock myself out, or drain my bank account, attempting to remove a small amount of steering wheel play that's been deemed "acceptable" from the day the bus was built..... But hey.... That's just -my- opinion. | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 545 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.107.113 Rating: N/A |
Doyle - Thanks for that update. Have fun with that rig, willya? | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 140 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.49.138 Rating: N/A |
John, i have my steering wheel off to install a new one and have about 1/2" play when you turn it with a wrench where the splines are and was trying to find out if this was going to be to much when i installed the steering and i just thought you may know how much play is too much at that point.Eagle does not give much info when it comes to steering.and thanks for the post it gives me some kind of help | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 546 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.101.158 Rating: N/A |
Luvrbus - I guess I misunderstood your post, I thought you were trashing me.. (HAR) Seriously, I have no idea how to compute that... Well I do, but I get this real serious headache, and my mood swings like Jekyll and Hyde when I try to figure stuff like that out.... (Then I start hearing those voices....) But.... Changing the steering wheel size isn't going to reduce the amount of play; it's all relative (like a mother-in-law with PMS?). As all the comments above, you oughta' check the entire steering system for wear, and replace whatever's worn. Checking for rust, or parts about to fall off, ain't a bad idea, either. If all's well otherwise, I wouldn't worry about the amount of play that falls within the industry specifications. Once you get used to -not- fighting the small amount of drift while driving, you won't even notice a few inches of play. | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 177 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 68.55.108.125 Rating: N/A |
__. Hey Doyle, you say your mechanic is very experienced and he says that the adjustment is max'ed out but it's not to the dangerous stage yet. If it were *my* bus, I'd go ahead and update the steering box (unless it's insanely expensive). It's hard to tell when you're going to go over that "dangerous" line and this is a hobby for me ... one that I'd prefer to be on the conservative side of. __. And, oh, yeah, what would it cost for you to go to a couple of Duke games????? | ||
| Doyle Gaither (Texasborderdude)
Registered Member Username: Texasborderdude Post Number: 93 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 70.222.255.39 Rating: N/A |
Thanks... made it to Knoxville and will re-assess in Atlanta... just blew a front shock... down flat will source it all there... anyone know the shock pn or got experience replacing them? | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 141 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.49.138 Rating: N/A |
Doyle i have 2 # for the front shock 85314 Gaberil and T6048BA Eagle # if your going to be in 1 spot for a few days Jefferson is the best place to by the shock about 50.00 plus shipping.They are easy to change just 2 nuts | ||
| Doyle Gaither (Texasborderdude)
Registered Member Username: Texasborderdude Post Number: 94 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 75.202.151.31 Rating: N/A |
Great! Are the rear's the same? Should I replace them too, or just wait for one to fail? dg | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member Username: Drivingmisslazy Post Number: 2011 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.108.81.151 Rating: N/A |
Use gabriel adjustable shocks. You can get rid of all the porpoising with them. Richard | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 142 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.49.138 Rating: |
No, Doyle the rears and boogie axles are the same but the front needs to be a double action. Eagle in Brownvsville has the set on sell right now (8)for less than 300 bucks saves you 100 bucks if replacing all. I replaced all of mine at 1 time that way i knew they were all new and the same and it didn't take but few hours. good luck | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 143 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.49.138 Rating: N/A |
Richard, that shock will bottom out on the front of a Eagle.Mike had to remove those from the front of DML that you owned.David at Southern Oregon installed that shock on the front of mine too that i had to remove them | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member Username: Drivingmisslazy Post Number: 2012 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.108.81.151 Rating: N/A |
I never had them bottom out and it was the only shock I could find that would get rid of the porpoising. Surprising that in all the cross country trips I made and tens of thousands of miles and off roading at Glamis that I never discovered that. Maybe they were due for replacement? Richard | ||
| Doyle Gaither (Texasborderdude)
Registered Member Username: Texasborderdude Post Number: 95 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 75.202.151.31 Rating: N/A |
Luvrbus: Great heads-up. Got the last complete set they had in stock at the sale price. Gotta get the stear-gear numbers and see what they've got. Made it to Atlanta just fine, have family here... so I've got a place to sleep if I have to put 'er in the shop. | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 144 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.51.192 Rating: N/A |
Richard, let Doyle call Norris or Eagle that way he will have the right shock and we won't confuse him (Message edited by luvrbus on November 12, 2007) | ||
| Doyle Gaither (Texasborderdude)
Registered Member Username: Texasborderdude Post Number: 96 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 75.202.151.31 Rating: N/A |
Luvrbus: Great heads-up. Got the last complete set they had in stock at the sale price. Gotta get the stear-gear numbers and see what they've got. Made it to Atlanta just fine, have family here... so I've got a place to sleep if I have to put 'er in the shop. sorry double post, guess the Martini kicked in before my internet! (Message edited by TexasBorderDude on November 12, 2007) | ||
| John Jewett (Jayjay)
Registered Member Username: Jayjay Post Number: 378 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 68.89.31.167 Rating: N/A |
Quit fighting the wheel!!!. If you will relax and let the bus tires "climb the slope" that is in most traffic lanes due to settling and wear, first to the right then to the left in a slow 1/4 mile long boogie, you will not be so tired. Most buses have more play than yours when new. You are so used to a zero basklash system in your auto that it feels like you are steering a row boat with one oar while in the bus. Just relax and let it wander around in your lane a bit, no need to get nervous about the thing. Ask RJ Long, Ewen Steele or Fred Raymon about the technique. Definitely check all of the system for safety, but your play doesn't sound excessive to me. (BTW, it's less tham my .5m mile Buffalo. Cheers...JJ | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 213 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 69.77.146.206 Rating: N/A |
The really old buses like the 4104 were designed for the two lane roads as there were no Interstates until the late '50s or early 60s. (Pres. Eisenhower signed the Interstate Hwy bill.) Our 4104 has about 1-1.5 inches of play and EVERYTHING is real tight or new. I find that if I stay on the right of the road crown the bus wants to ease to the right & all I have to do is pull a teeny bit to the left to keep it going down the road straight. If I get on top of or on the left side of the crown, the bus is all over the road. The only time I have to stay on my toes is if there's a 25+ mph wind from the right side. (Then I enjoy watching my nephew's Pace Arrow camper dodging & weaving in the rear view!!) A worn sloppy bus handles better than a tight S & S. By the way, my nephew is close behind me because he is DRAFTING ME (not kidding). Our 24,000lb bus gets 10 mph to his 12,000lb 6 mpg camper! Jim-Bob | ||
| JR Lynch (Njt5047)
Registered Member Username: Njt5047 Post Number: 196 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.132.233.230 Rating: N/A |
FWIW, I've found that using one hand on the side of the wheel seems to make steering easier. Grabbing the wheel with both hands adds to the 'wandering' and over-correction. I don't speak to the safety of steering with one hand, but with power steering, you don't need a lot of grip to maintain control. Maybe a real 'driver' can comment? As JayJay sez, relax and see how it goes. Seems to be a rythm to the bus steering. Once settled into the 'rythm' of the steering, the miles just cruise on by without stress...until you come to a traffic 'occlusion!' JR | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1111 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.68.132.151 Rating: N/A |
Hello Doyle. Try this: get out on the road, and only put one hand on the steering wheel. Stare intently at the furthest vehicle on the road, somewhere out at the horizon, a mile or more down the road, and let your peripheral vision take care of lane position. And not when the wind is blowing. In the wind, every bus dances around! You are not steering the bus as much as leaning against the tiller of a great ship, in a slightly rolling sea. As the sea rolls, the nose may not seem to be pointing quite where we are intending to go, but then the ship rolls down the other side of the wave, and it is. Steering corrections, if you are rowing your way down the highway, become self-inflicted over-corrections which require another steering correction to catch the original, and on it goes, weaving from one side of the lane to the other. Until you get the feel for it, in my professional observations, two hands on the wheel seems to make it worse. You aren't nearly as likely to thrash as aggresively at the wheel with only one hand on it, unless the natural selection gene is dormant.... I've also wondered if it's some left brain/right brain warfare with the battlefield being the steering wheel, and with the battle raging, the learning is inhibited? Who knows, it usually works. (to the safety nazis: keep your flames to yourselves, I'm trying to fix a problem, then we can go back to having both hands on the wheel, if that is your preference) Thanks JJ, for the support! happy coaching! buswarrior aka ES | ||
| Doyle Gaither (Texasborderdude)
Registered Member Username: Texasborderdude Post Number: 97 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 75.202.100.208 Rating: N/A |
All the comments are great! With almost 7k miles on my log, I guess I've intuitively done most of what's been suggested. One hand, on the side for sure. The gaze ahead is also true, I remember from my motorcycle days to steer through a turn, look ahead. Thanks to all once more! dg | ||
| larry currier (Larryc)
Registered Member Username: Larryc Post Number: 150 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 207.200.116.13 Rating: N/A |
We had a factory tech at Rickreal. he said the boxes are pretty well used up at 750,000 miles and that is why you have to chase them so much. My model 20 has 400,000 and exhibited the problem. The castor camber and toe are in spec although the right bogie is slightly out. Hate to say this, but at the truck stop there sat a small bottle of Lucas power steering additive. It made a huge claim that it would stop my problem of chasing the wheel all day with just this little bottle of additive. My power steering resevoir was too full to get any more than half the bottle in, but guess what? It worked perfect. I don't chase the wheel at all anymore. | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 547 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.101.174 Rating: N/A |
A few belts of good quality Bourbon provides the same relief... DISCLAIMER: Some assembly required. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. For recreational use only. All models over 18 years of age. May be too intense for some viewers. As seen on TV. Avoid contact with skin. Keep away from fire or flame. No Canadian coins. Driver does not carry cash. Apply only to affected area. No user-serviceable parts inside. Simulated picture. Edited for television. Penalty for private use. Batteries not included. You must be present to win. Harmful or fatal if swallowed. Handle with care. Only use in well ventilated areas. Heals skin on contact. May cause irritation! For serious injuries, seek medical attention. Keep away from children. Do not turn upside down. No purchase necessary! Safe to use in households with pets. Close cover before striking. May cause drowsiness. Do not use near fire or flame. High in sodium. Do not insert into any bodily orifice. May warp space-time. Not for home use. Always keep a round in your chamber. ------------------ This supersedes all previous notices --------------------- (Message edited by john_mc9 on November 18, 2007) |
