| Author | Message | ||
| Buddy Tennison (Buddyten)
Registered Member Username: Buddyten Post Number: 42 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 207.68.234.24 Rating: |
We have an 8V71 with Spicer 5 speed manual in 80 Eagle. We have about 6000 or 7000 miles since overhaul. Our trips range from 300 to 500 miles roundtrip. The oil consumption seems to be high. For example, when we started this weekend, we were about 1/2 gal below full mark. We drove approx 200 miles, and it was about a full gallon low. We made a couple of stops, and short runs, then when we started the return trip, we were about another 1/2 to full gallon below the full mark. Overall, seems to have used about 1 1/2 gallon on a 600 mile round trip. We have discussed this with the mechanic who did the rebuild, and he does not seem to be concerned, and said he expected some abnormal usage until everything "got broken in good". He indicated this might take up to 15-20,000 miles. We have very little or no smoke. Have some on start up, and going through the gears, or under load, but even some friends who have followed us indicated that when it got up and running on the interstate, there was little or no smoke. We have also checked for leaks, and short of a loose bolt on the exhaust manifold, (which we tightend), there are no leaks we can see. Our oil pressure consistently runs between 45 and 50. It will run around 50 until it gets good and warmed up, and will kinda run from 45 to 50 after warm up. Is our mechanic correct? Will our oil consumption reduce after break in? Is our oil pressure good and within what it should be? Appreciate all your thoughts. | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Registered Member Username: Niles500 Post Number: 801 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.43.39.156 Rating: N/A |
What oil are you running in it? PSI seems fine for under load - FWIW | ||
| Buddy Tennison (Buddyten)
Registered Member Username: Buddyten Post Number: 43 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 207.68.234.24 Rating: N/A |
By the way, we are running Shell Rotella 40wt. Should we run anything different? That is one of the oils that Detroit recommends for a 2 stroke. Another is Delo 100. But the Rotella is easier for us to get since we have a good Shell distributor in the area. | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Registered Member Username: Niles500 Post Number: 802 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.43.39.156 Rating: N/A |
Rotella T40 is fine - what color is the smoke after the mill is up to temp? | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 145 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.51.192 Rating: N/A |
Buddy, are you getting a lot of oil from the air box drain tubes. Like Niles said check and see what kind oil he put in the engine because i have never seen one use that much oil for a newely rebuild most of the time its about 1 gal every 800 to 1000 miles and the psi is about right let us know about the oil some of these things like different brands of oil.my engine has 8000 miles on it i changed the oil at 3000 miles the first time after overhaul and it had used less than 2 1/2 gals.i used Mobil from the DD and when i changed to Delo 100 my oil consumption went up to 1 gal every 900 miles so i am back to Mobil. good luck | ||
| Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member Username: Doninwa Post Number: 89 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 66.45.165.58 Rating: N/A |
Take a look at 71 series Detroit manual. Makes for interesting reading. The dyno break in recommended includes quite a bit of time at high loads. If memory serves it gives specs on oil consumption during break in too. I would find a nice long steep hill and run it repeatedly until you have at least an hour as near full load as possible. If oil consumption does not improve after that, then I would look into it further. Good luck | ||
| Bob Symonds (Bob_symonds)
Registered Member Username: Bob_symonds Post Number: 30 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 146.235.66.52 Rating: N/A |
Just a thought... My 671 will "use" oil whenever it is topped off.... If I leave it a 1/2 gallon low it never needs to be added to. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 533 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.24 Rating: N/A |
Same comment as Bob's. I have 18 vehicles including an airplane and I NEVER run any of them at the full oil mark. Most will throw out the first pint or gal, depending on the engine. I once had an airplane that if topped off would throw out three qts of 12 in 15 min. | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1321 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.166.160 Rating: N/A |
Buddy - Also, check the dipstick for proper Full and Add marks. Run the stick alongside the tube, and see where the Full mark ends up. It should be approximately 1" below the interface between the block and the oil pan, per Detroit. Rotella is right at the margin for correct sulfated ash content per Detroit. DDA calls for 1% or less, Rotella is right at 1%. Chevron's Delo 100 comes in at 0.76%, considerably lower. However, you might just double-check with your mechanic - he may have put CF-4 multi-weight oil in the engine 'cause that's what he has in his bulk tank. If so, there's a big part of your problem, until your next oil change. FWIW & HTH. . .  | ||
| John Jewett (Jayjay)
Registered Member Username: Jayjay Post Number: 377 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 68.89.31.167 Rating: N/A |
My experience follows Gus's. Most smallish Lycoming aircraft engined throw the first quart in less than an hour then no consumption 'til the next change at 25 hours. My DD 8v71 blows the first gallon in about 200 miles after being topped off. Then about 1/2 gal per 1000. The DD book says 3 gal. is minimum, and my lowest consumption is at the 4 1/2 to 5 gal/ level. with 225K on the overhaul. I got the lowest consumption after changing over to DELO 100, BUT the good news is that DELO 400 (Readily available, and CHEAP) is now rated for CF-2 service. Go to their website for more info. And no I don't have the site address, but may have a link.If so I will post it later. Cheers...jj | ||
| JR Lynch (Njt5047)
Registered Member Username: Njt5047 Post Number: 195 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.132.233.230 Rating: N/A |
Buddy, how long are you giving the oil to drain back before checking the oil level? Not sure about an 8V71, but my 6V92 takes quite a while for the oil to return to the pan...maybe up to an hour?? It gradually returns, but that last bit is slow to come down. The oil will be off the stick for a few minutes...then it starts reading again. I overfilled it a couple times when checking and adding oil in a rest area. It promptly blew all the extra oil out. Unlike your fresh engine, mine had a rear main seal that would leak when filled to the full mark. The seal has been replaced. Still, even with the leaking seal, as long as it was about halfway between the "add" and "full" mark, oil consumption was minimal. Also, any unlevel may alter the dipstick reading. I'd guess that if you add extra oil, the engine will remove it. I'd try allowing the engine to run down almost to the "add" line before adjusting the level and see if your oil consumption goes down. If it does, it's burning oil due to windage. That much oil would coat the rear of the bus if it leaked out. During cooler weather slightly low oil level will not cause any harm. Won't harm it in hot weather either. Anywhere between the "add" and "full" mark is safe. Do you have a catch can for your airbox drains? You don't have a lot miles on the rebuild...may find it gets better as it's driven. I would agree with your mechanic, if it isn't smoking blue smoke, and it isn't leaking, and it's running well on all cylinders, the engine is probably good. I know this isn't always possible, but the best time to check the engine oil is when the engine is cold. Don't be too quick to add oil. JR (Message edited by njt5047 on November 14, 2007) | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 536 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.16 Rating: N/A |
JJ, Is the approved Delo 400 multi weight? | ||
| Cameron Jones (Crazy71)
Registered Member Username: Crazy71 Post Number: 66 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 72.49.253.33 Rating: N/A |
The Delo 400 might very well now say CF-2 on the back label....I have seen walmarts brand of 15w-40 say CF-2 approved for years....but I won't use it. I believe most if not all (at least easily available) DElo 400 will be multi-grade... this is what we want to avoid. The Delo 100 st. 40 and the Rotella st. 40 hold up better under heat and has better shear stregth from all that I have seen. There are some pretty grahic pics available online that compares pistons ran on multi grade vs. straight 40. Amsoil only makes a 15w-40 that is "perfect for everything"... and I am sure being a synthetic...makes up for the loss of protection of being a multi grade. You could probably run Mobile one 15w-50 forever and have just as good protection and wear as straight 40....but look at the cost differece!! Royal Purple makes a staight 30 40 and 50 that is CF-2 rated also. In warm climates....I bet the 50 synthetic would give the best protection possible but costs too much for me. I don't buy the extended change intervals...to offset the higher cost of oil either... SUre, if you spend 4 times more for the oil and change it four times less often....it is the same price. This is based on no oil consumption beteww changes....which no old DD is going to do.. The only thing you get from this is the convenience of not having to do the oild change as often. I use synthetics in my regular vehicles (sorry bus...you're not normal) that I plan on keeping a long time. I want the EXTRA protection of synthetic...not extra convenience...so I use synthetic and still change it every 3500-4000 miles. With dirty-bus-diesels....the oil gets A LOT of contamination and dirt dumped into it so I would rather have straight 40 conventional oil in there 1/3-1/4 as long as a "better" synthetic. | ||
| Cameron Jones (Crazy71)
Registered Member Username: Crazy71 Post Number: 67 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 72.49.253.33 Rating: N/A |
Update:: as I said above "easily available" Delo 400.... The delo is availabe in a staight 40 that is cf-2 spec.....but you will have a better chance of finding Delo 100 40wt than that. I have every so rarely seen straight 40 Rotella in a gallon jug at speedway truck stops....but almost always the 15w-40. My point is that you are going to have to HUNT to find delo 100 or delo 400 in a single grade 40. The 400 is everywhere in 15w-40...but this multigrade is NOT CF-2 approved. I just checked the website specs. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 541 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.12 Rating: N/A |
Cameron, Have you ever used Delo 400 multi-weight CF-2 in your bus? Does your bus have a DD? | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 150 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.51.192 Rating: N/A |
Guys i don't know where you live but here in AZ every NAPA house has 40w delo 400 and Shell rotella t in 40w | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1326 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.166.160 Rating: N/A |
JJ - According to the Product Data Sheets for Delo 400 dated January of 2007, it is not recommended for use in the two-stroke Detroits. I agree that it say OK on the basic Delo 400 page, but that's not what the PDS sheets show. I just went thru this last week over on the Yahell Detroit Diesel group with somebody who thought multi-weight was OK for his 71 series engine. Unfortunately tonite while I was trying to pull up the URL for the Data Sheets, Chevron's site kept coming back with a system error message. If it works in the morning, I'll post the links. Chevron's Delo 100 CF-2 straight 40 wt still is the closest overall to Detroit's oil specs for the two-strokes. Exxon's XD-3 is also very close, and Shell's Rotella is right at the max in the sulfated ash spec. Delo 400 straight 40wt has a sulfated ash content of 1.35%, which exceeds DDA's 1% or less recommendation. Detroit's pretty adamant about NOT using multi-weight oil in the two-strokes. For those who don't have it, here's the link to Detroit's specs. It's a .pdf file, so you can print it out and put it in your coach's service binder. See Section II for the two-stroke stuff. http://www.detroitdiesel.com/support/on-highway/manuals/Lubricants_Fuels_Coolants/7se270.p df FWIW & HTH. . . | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 151 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.56.81 Rating: N/A |
RJ this oil debate just keeps going but the EPA has made it easy like them or not they mandate that oil shall not have more than 1% ash.The Delo 100 was a oil specifically formulated for the 149 series a light fuel engine (dmx and dma)and this oil was not on the market till in the 1960s.and my 892 manual shows you can use multi-weight oil in cold weather and even some sl rated oil.All Detroit engines even the 60 and 50 series recommend 1% ash oil.if you get a oil change at a DD dealer you are going to get Mobil Delvac not delo 100 its the oil they put the DD name on.i just don't buy in to all the hype about delo 100 and the Delo 400 40w in the new specs from Chevron does meet DD requriments | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1327 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.166.160 Rating: N/A |
Luvrbus - OK, did a little research this morning via Google, and found the info on the EPA-mandated oil reformulations you mentioned. Interesting situation is developing here for those of us with two-strokes, and is going to require us to do our homework even more diligently. Chevron's website is still showing a system error when trying to log into their Product Data Sheets this morning, so perhaps they're under revision. Regarding multi-weight in the two-strokes, agree that it states for cold weather use only. The manual also says it should be replaced with single weight as soon as ambient temps allow it. Mobile Delvac single weitght is the same oil as Exxon XD-3, just repackaged for DDA as a private label product. (Mobile is part of Exxon now.) Here's the specs: http://www.exxon.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAUSE2CVLEXExxonXD-3Monogrades.asp?Print=yes There's a whole bunch of oils out there that meet DDA's specs for the two-strokes: http://eolcs.api.org/FindBrandByServiceCategory.asp?ServiceCategory=CF-2 Most are not on the shelf at your local WalMart. Agreed that this debate can go on forever, but I think the bottom line is this: For maximum performance, longevity and minimum consumption, the closer to Detroit's specifications the oil you choose to run in your engine - regardless of whether it's a two- or four-stroke motor - the better off you'll be. FWIW & HTH. . . | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Registered Member Username: Niles500 Post Number: 805 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 72.91.168.92 Rating: N/A |
NO debate - 2 stroke DD's - straight 40 wt above 30 degrees, 30 wt below - CF-2 or better - less than 1% sulfated ash - what is the debate here - it's available - just find it - FWIW | ||
| Cameron Jones (Crazy71)
Registered Member Username: Crazy71 Post Number: 68 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 72.49.253.33 Rating: N/A |
Gus, I do have a 8v-71 in my bus an I have not used Delo 400 that says CF-2. When I bought it....the previous owner had a half gallon of Rotella 15w-40....of that tells you anything.. I'm not sure he ever changed the oil in the year or so he had it. He had fresh fuel filters on it and an extra set in the extra bus parts box for me. I drove it home over 12 hours straight and it wasn't down to the add mark yet... so it's must not be hurt too bad. I just did first oil change in 3 months ago and I put Delo 100 40wt in it. | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1330 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.166.160 Rating: N/A |
All - Chevron's site with the Product Data Sheets is back online today. Go to: http://www.chevrondelo.com/ In the lower LH corner, select the region you want, then click "Go". This brings up another page with all the various Delo products on it. Each is a .pdf file, so you can print it out, if you wish. Also, if obtaining Texaco is easier for some folk, their Ursa Super Duty and Extra Duty single weights meet DDA's two-stroke specs. Extra Duty's PDS sheets show specs identical to Delo 100, which makes sense - Texaco's owned by Chevron now. Here's a link to the Ursa site: http://www.texacoursa.com/ Luvrbus - The PDS for Delo 400 single weight, dated 14 September 2007, on page two it still says it is NOT recommended for Detroit Diesel two-strokes. Perhaps Chevron hasn't updated the PDS files yet to meet the EPA's mandates?? FWIW & HTH. . . | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 154 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.39.184 Rating: N/A |
RJ i was reading about the new rating coming for 2010 how in the world are people going to figure out what type oil to use, confused i will be in 2010.In the Oil and Gas Journal it said that by 2010 no C rated oil can have more than .5% ash and the oil companies are not happy with the effect its going to have older compression type engines.they want to wait till 2015 (Message edited by luvrbus on November 21, 2007) | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 545 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.11 Rating: N/A |
I'm still a bit confused. Is Delo 400 CF-2 available in multi-weight? Is Rotella T available in CF-2 multi-weight? If they are can they be used in a 2-stroke DD? Cameron, Thanks, I thought you were saying you had used CF-2 multi-weight in your bus? | ||
| Laryn Christley (Barn_owl)
Registered Member Username: Barn_owl Post Number: 95 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 71.254.35.124 Rating: N/A |
Just bought Exxon XD-3 40wt for $8.69 gal. I thought it would be good to get before the price increases take hold. There is too much time, effort and money wasted looking for Delo 100 when there are several oils that will work just a well. As a side note: Has anyone noted the price of anti-freeze lately? Some places have seen a 30% increase over the last few months….ouch! Laryn | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 95 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 74.244.14.221 Rating: N/A |
Funny it only took me about an hour of looking on the internet to find Delo 100 close by. If anyone in the Atlanta area is looking here is where I found mine. I picked up 3 cases. They have one morein stock and are willing to order more. I paid $9.50 a gallon out the door Davis Oil Company 4383 Lilburn Industrial Way Lilburn Georgia Phone Numbers: (770) 923-4411 FAX Number: (770) 923-9312 | ||
| Cameron Jones (Crazy71)
Registered Member Username: Crazy71 Post Number: 70 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 72.49.253.33 Rating: N/A |
Gus, I have never used multigrade in mine by my choice...it had a 15w-40 half gallon jug in the bay when I bought it....so don't know if the previous owner just topped off or changed it with that stuff.. The rule everyone goes by is no 15w40....15w-40 is for eveything diesel but 2 stokes.... The rotella 15w-40 is NOT cf-2...the new delo 400 might say cf-2 on it....As I said I have seen walmarts store brand 15w-40 say cf-2 also...but DD says NO multigrades...they say CF-2 AND 40 straight weight unless in very cold temps then 30 straight... | ||
| Ron Walker (Prevost82)
Registered Member Username: Prevost82 Post Number: 347 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.181.210.47 Rating: N/A |
mummm ...Detroit Diesel up here in the great white north recommends 40w at any temp. If your running in temps -20 to -40 They recommend a oil heater, with a block heater. | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 160 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.39.184 Rating: N/A |
Ron, in my DD book it said to use 30W or 15-40 for 0 to-25 in a 8v92 and 50w for air temp of 100 and engine temp of 200. | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 170 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
We are in the great white north, and have an oil pan heater (electric) along with a propane 15K Btu and the regular block heater to get things running. May seem like overkill to some, but you get a better appreciation of the cold if you ever had to change a fuel pump in a parking lot and the temperature hovers at -40. Same reading on either scale. BTDT. Joe. | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 161 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.39.184 Rating: N/A |
Joe, i live in AZ and its 50 tonight and my wife has the heat on and so at -40 i can not even picture in my mind how cold that would be | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 546 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.11 Rating: N/A |
Ron & Luv, My 4104 Maint Man says 40W until below 30*F, then 30W. Since your buses are much newer my guess for this difference is in the many years between the books being published. | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 162 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.39.184 Rating: N/A |
Gus,the difference is a 71 series and the 92 series.no way would i use 15-40 even at -40 in a 71 series | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 173 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
Luvrbus Cold is something you can dress for with the proper attire, which is something you cannot do if the temp is 11o F. or the humidex is well above a hundred. I find it ironic that people in vegas hav e their curtains closed in mid summer and nobody goes for a walk. Joe. |
