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Message |
Bart Duncan (Bartman)
Registered Member
Username: Bartman
Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2007
Posted From: 68.185.135.211
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 - 8:27 pm: | |
question: Is there a bus paint on the market that does not have to be "baked"? |
JR Lynch (Njt5047)
Registered Member
Username: Njt5047
Post Number: 197
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 69.132.233.230
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 - 9:45 pm: | |
Sure. Any good quality, 2 part (base/clear) automotive paint system will build into an excellent finish. No baking necessary.
However, if using automotive finishes, be advised that they are toxic, may be difficult to apply for a non-pro, and damned difficult to remove if the painter screws up.
Get pro help.
A BC/CC finish is expensive (relatively) to buy, but covers well. A bus could be painted with two gallons of color coat. Still going to be expensive, but the finish, if properly done, is great.
Check with DP, PPG, NAPA (Martin Senour 'Value Line'..very reasonable price for coaches stored indoors).
For ref, I used 2 gallons of PPG color, plus all the other components of the "system" and the cost of material at jobber was about $1000. My paint work was done in a barn. It's a BC/CC paint. Looks OK...could'a been better. Very durable. Going on 4 years and no problems at all. One color.
You'll almost need a crew to apply modern paint. The clear must be applied within about 20 minutes following the last color coat. That was my problem. Big old bus got ahead of us.
The other major faux paw is prep work. The prep work will set the stage for a good lasting finish, or one that peels off shortly after application. Do it right.
Most modern finishes require HVLP guns. Siphon guns won't cut it. A good HVLP will cost $500 bucks. A primer gun is probably necessary also for high build primers. You may not need much primer if your existing paint is in good condition. Most buses have Imron finish, which can be painted over without problems. Any flaw in your existing paint will be picked up in the new finish unless repaired. If in doubt as to whether the existing finish is compatable, do a small area test. Generally if the paint dries without problems...it's OK.
One last point...always use the components of the manufacturers "paint system". That will avoid major pitfalls. Don't mix n match unless you know exactly what works and what may not.
Sorry about the diatribe...the answer to your question is yes.
JR |
Bart Duncan (Bartman)
Registered Member
Username: Bartman
Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2007
Posted From: 68.185.135.211
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 8:19 pm: | |
JR - or should I say O-Bee-won! Thanks for the paint tips! The knowledge base on this board really makes me feel like a moron!!! but thanks so much for your help!
Bart |
Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member
Username: Dreamscape
Post Number: 169
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 209.218.200.163
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 9:45 pm: | |
Bart,
Some of us are still morons, I'm the president I think at times. Just wanted you to know so you don't feel alone :-)
Paul |
Ray Drummond (Ray_d)
Registered Member
Username: Ray_d
Post Number: 32
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 68.125.99.247
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 11:04 pm: | |
I used a single stage urethane, for us beginners a bc/cc finish is to complicated (just to much area). Buses are easy to break into sections so you don't have to spray the whole bus at one time. Us bus nuts have to spray outside so I put on an extra coat for color sanding. Then learn how to color sand and buff, you take off the orange peal, dirt and bugs and you can come off with a very nice paint job.
I would spray a section one day and than sand 24 hrs later using 1500 grit (wet sand)while the paint was soft. Then wait 2 more days and buff it out. Mine is coming out very nice.
If your interested in more detail, just ask
Ray D |
James Stacy (Jimstacy)
Registered Member
Username: Jimstacy
Post Number: 117
Registered: 1-2001
Posted From: 76.227.44.243
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 11:05 pm: | |
Bart,
New, quality paints do not "dry", nor are they baked. They harden, with activator, like an epoxy. Ambient air temp and humidity are very important. Curing process can release lethal toxic fumes. Often breathing masks with air supply are required and spraybooth exhaust must be treated.
Bc/cc is better (and cheaper) than single coat. A bus can be colored with a couple of gallons of expensive pigmented paint, Then enough less expensive clear coat is applied to 'WET' the surface for the gloss.
With base coat only, it requires several times more pigmented product to "wet" the surface for gloss. Total product cost is greater, quality is less. The UV protection is in the clear coat, oddly enough. BC/CC lasts longer.
There are many choices of product, even several levels of Imron alone. My '04 was painted more than 10 years ago with Imron 6000. It has never been stored in a garage or had any other care than carwash soap and water. The paint still looks "wet". This was a tri-coat, base, pearled clear coat, clear coat.
Price varies with formula. A solid color red might be $150 a galon, adding enough "pearl" and metalics can easily triple the price. JR was right on with his advice and cautions. BTW an upscale job can easily use a dozen gallons of product and jobber cost of $5000 or more for sprayable product alone. HTH
Jim Stacy |
Ray Drummond (Ray_d)
Registered Member
Username: Ray_d
Post Number: 33
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 68.125.99.247
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 11:13 pm: | |
You posted just as I did Stacy, the problem I have with us back yard sprayers is clear coat is very hard to see what your doing, it is easier at least for me to see a color going on. Might be more expensive for the paint, but the labor is real cheap.
Ray D |
george bruton (Tazman632000)
Registered Member
Username: Tazman632000
Post Number: 41
Registered: 2-2007
Posted From: 65.184.69.36
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 10:29 am: | |
I JUST PAINTED my bus with dupont nasons product line. you is a single stage urerethane. on the last coat you can add clear to the paint. its agood product that is forgiving to apply. the one thing that i noticed is that you need to wait longer than the can say between coats to spray the rivet heads will induce a run around them. i guess they brake some of the surface tension in the paint. ill try to post pic soon |
Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member
Username: Dreamscape
Post Number: 170
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 209.218.200.163
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 8:12 pm: | |
George, Give us some specifics, type of gun, air compressor and any hints.
Looking forward to the pics. |
george bruton (Tazman632000)
Registered Member
Username: Tazman632000
Post Number: 43
Registered: 2-2007
Posted From: 65.184.69.36
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 12:30 am: | |
i used a gravity feed gun mac tools econo coat. first you used the 2 part epoxy primer if your painting bare aluminum. you have a 4 day window to topcoat it. used the high build primer to cover body work and sanding sratches its easy to sand, make sure your last sand paper is at least 320 or higher. i would use light colors they show the least defects. i did mine in sections like a previous post sugested. that way at least for me the job did become overwelming. its a lot of work no matter how you dice it though. i used the standard nason colors so if i have to respray an area it will match. you can color sand and buff if you need to later wait at least 120 days. now if some one will tell me how to up load pictures i will post some? |
Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member
Username: Dreamscape
Post Number: 171
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 166.129.132.85
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 11:11 am: | |
Just make sure they are small enough. Then upload the attachment to your message. Can't remember the size though let alone what I had for breakfast today ;-).
I plan to use a gravity gun also. Getting my supplies from House of Color in Abilene. I don't have the specifics of the paint as I am not home right now. It is a two part, do not need to use a clear coat. Used on many truck cabs with good results. The sample he showed me had a very high gloss. |
marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member
Username: Gomer
Post Number: 133
Registered: 3-2007
Posted From: 76.4.149.200
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 5:09 pm: | |
well guys: my turn.. I sanded mine down filled up the dings with regular bondo, Put a coat of self-etching primer[for aluminum] then made sure of the smoothness that I wanted. I primed her again and mixed the final paint color prior to last coat of primer,then after the primer coat had dried ,about an hour I sprayed the color on. I used acrylic enamel and done it like you all IN sections since I work outside also. I used a regular devilbliss syphon gun for the primer and a gravity gun for the color. After doing all this I found a gravity gun at Harbor Freight that was able and sprayed as good as my gravity one. It would hold about a 2-qt product and had 4-ft of hose so you didn't have to hold that in the air. It could become heavy. It turned out to be not perfect by pro body shops standards but it is MY COACH not theres LOL I used sherwin williams paint, primer and color.
thanks for stopping by
gomer |
joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member
Username: Joemc7ab
Post Number: 166
Registered: 6-2004
Posted From: 66.38.159.33
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 6:37 pm: | |
Marvin
Years ago, when I would put together a car for one of our kids I came up with my 50/50 rule. From 50ft and 50Mph, it looked just excellent.
Joe. |
JR Lynch (Njt5047)
Registered Member
Username: Njt5047
Post Number: 199
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 69.132.233.230
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 6:37 pm: | |
FWIW, one of the best low priced HVLP (gravity) guns on the market is a DeVilbiss "Finishline" series. Eplace for couple hundred...or less. When pricing, look at what you're getting. All sorts of combo kits and storage boxes are listed...or not?? Sorta hard to compare.
They will perform well, and if gun pressure is accurate, do a great job.
HVLP guns and modern paint systems have a narrow band for tip pressure. FOLLOW THE MANUF SPECS.
Clear coat isn't so bad to lay on, just go at it slow, and give it a minute or two to flow out if you're wondering when enough is enough. Clear dries fast and you can always hang another 'wet' coat on. Keep the gun moving or you'll "hang" a big old sag. With clear, the sags and runs can be removed without damaging the finished product. After the finish is hard of course.
Clear goes on in multi coats, and if timed right, it'll add a good deal of depth to the paint. Single coat finishes look good, but a good BC/CC finish will resist sun and has some resilence to branches and minor scratchns.
I know one guy "rolled" his bus. Looked pretty good a a short distance. Used marine paint. The only problem was around areas that he couldn't roll...had to cut in with a brush. The brush work didn't flow out like the roller applied paint.
Using an HVLP gun is a little more complicated than using a siphon gun.
And remember, most isocyanate finishes are toxic. They'll damage your head big-time. Most catalyzed (uses hardner) paint is downright toxic.
Never let catalyzed paint set for long in a spray gun. Death of the gun will quickly occur.
JR |
Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member
Username: Doninwa
Post Number: 91
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 66.45.165.58
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 9:20 pm: | |
Lots of good info. Remember when working with these chemicals that if you can smell it your gear is not doing the job. You WILL regret it. It WILL do permanent damage to you with even small exposures. BTDT Now have zero sense of smell and other problems. Isocynate poisoning is nasty stuff. |
marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member
Username: Gomer
Post Number: 135
Registered: 3-2007
Posted From: 76.4.149.200
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 9:42 pm: | |
I love the 50/50 rule the best LOL Mine is shiney and is even so all is well, I think ..
The Japanese found out that bc/cc system was the best way however a lot of painters were dying and they finally found that the men/women had their lungs were crystilized from breathing the fumes and there were NO reversal of the situtation, like coal miners and Black Lung. So always wear a GOOD RESPIRATOR when painting ANYTHING!!!! Cover all body parts when spraying urathane, that stuff will soak in your pores and you will suffer a lot a problems even breathing.. BE CAREFUL AT ALL TIMES>>>>
thanks for stopping by
gomer |