| Author | Message | ||
| William D. Watkins (Sivrtnge2)
Registered Member Username: Sivrtnge2 Post Number: 133 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 68.243.85.100 Rating: N/A |
Has anyone touched on this topic before??? I tried to look up information in the archives with no success. "Any...who", my question is...If I am using 2 6volt golf cart wet cell batteries and a rv series 2012 inverter charger for power now, can I go with 2 6volt gel batteries...and if so will the inverter still work as a charger. Also, can I use the engines alternator system to charge these batteries as well. I am wiring the batteries in series to give me 12 volts. What is better, 2 6volt gels @ 180ah or 1 12volt gel @ 225ah. I am asking this question because I am told "no matter what, always go with 6 volt batteries". Please advise. -- BILL | ||
| Douglas Wotring (Tekebird)
Registered Member Username: Tekebird Post Number: 271 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 71.59.75.212 Rating: N/A |
I have never heard go with 6v. I think you will find most yachts as well as most professional coonversions will have 12v batteries or even 24v house systems using 12 v batteries don;t know about your inverter...depends on how smart it is. coach alt should be fine as long as it is a 12 volt Alt ( generator) | ||
| Darren Upfield (Mwerx)
Registered Member Username: Mwerx Post Number: 58 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 69.19.14.29 Rating: N/A |
Hi Bill gel batterys are great,if you have them set so it 12v out your alternator will charge as long as its 12v,the charger will charge if its 12v,the most inportant part off a gel battery life is the first charge,why not go with two 12v batterys,Malcolm. | ||
| William D. Watkins (Sivrtnge2)
Registered Member Username: Sivrtnge2 Post Number: 134 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 68.243.210.142 Rating: N/A |
Well thats very odd because everyone that I have talked to has said the best house batteries are 6 volt connected in series to produce 12v or 24v, depending on the application. I was also told they give more amp hours. I am currently using 2 6v "wet" batteries and would like to upgrade to the gel type. I was told by a parts store they dont make 6v batteries in a gel type. I found out that was incorrect. Then I was told that my inverter charger would not work with the gel type battery because gel batteries use a different type charging system. After going on xantrex website, I read the inverter charger will work with wet, agm, and gel batteries. I am trying to find out now if one 12v deep cycle gel @ 225ah is as sufficient as 2 6v gel @ 180 ah each. How do you caculate the 6v 180ah if you wire the batteries in series??? -- BILL | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 180 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.62.149 Rating: N/A |
Bill, what I was told like 2 6 volts at 180 ah was 360 but when it was 12 volt coming from the 2 6 volt it would be 180ah but it was the discharge rate in minutes of the 2 6 volts that made it better than a single 12 volt 225 ah batteries.Have you been to the Northern Arizona Wind and Sun site it gives good answers for things like this | ||
| Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
Registered Member Username: Jerry_liebler Post Number: 306 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 75.117.212.57 Rating: |
Bill, The 2ea. 6 volt 180 AH batteries in series is EXACTLY a 12 volt 180 AH battery. That means the 12 volt 225 AH battery has MORE capacity. One possible reason for the preference that many have for 6 volt batteries is they are much more likely to actually be deep cycle batteries rather than start batteries. The difference is start batteries use spongy lead as plates while deep cycles use solid lead plates. Solid plates give longer life but do not offer as high a peak current under extreem loads, like starting. If You are sure the 12 volt option is really a deep cycle battery it sure is the better choice. Regards Jerry 4107 1120 | ||
| William D. Watkins (Sivrtnge2)
Registered Member Username: Sivrtnge2 Post Number: 135 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 68.243.210.142 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Luvrbus, can you give me their website??? Hey Jerry, here is the battery I was talking about!!! BM Part #: GEL-8G-8D Voltage: 12 Volt Capacity: 225 Ah Type: Gel Cell Sealed Lead Acid Battery Warranty: 1 Year Shipping Weight: 161.00 Pounds Length: 20.25" Width: 11.01" Height: 10.01" What do you think??? -- BILL | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 181 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.62.149 Rating: N/A |
Bill,here's the link for Northern Az. http://www.windsun.com its a good site they even have a forum you can ask questions.Bill i have 3 of that 8d size for my house batteries in my Eagle but their AGM not gell installed them last week stood them on ends to fit my battery compartment (Message edited by luvrbus on December 01, 2007) | ||
| William D. Watkins (Sivrtnge2)
Registered Member Username: Sivrtnge2 Post Number: 136 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 68.243.210.142 Rating: N/A |
Thanks again LUVRBUS!!! Are you telling me you have something similar to what I am trying to purchase or are you telling me these are not gel??? -- BILL | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 203 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 71.183.44.41 Rating: N/A |
Bill, some chargers and invertors have a battery type switch on them. You move the slide to gel or reg batteries. Are you near Atlanta or still on the road? Dave | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 222 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 68.153.238.214 Rating: N/A |
Gel batteries are fine EXCEPT that you can not charge most of them at the same voltage as wet lead acid batteries. Wet batteries can accept 13.8-14.2 volts which will destroy most if not all gel cell batteries. Please check carefully with the battery manufacturer. I have seen a lot of fried gel cells & it will not be warrantable. You should be able to adjust the output of the inverter but most alternators will need a different regulator, designed for gells, or an adjustable regulator. Jim-Bob | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 182 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.62.149 Rating: N/A |
No, Bill i just purchased AGM batteries in the 8D size you are looking at in the gell batteries. People call the AGM batteries gell but their not but sealed like the gell (Message edited by luvrbus on December 01, 2007) | ||
| William D. Watkins (Sivrtnge2)
Registered Member Username: Sivrtnge2 Post Number: 137 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 68.243.210.142 Rating: N/A |
Hey Dave, I am still on the road right now. I hope to be back home by Christmas but doubtful. The system I have is in my truck and I am having to run my genset all day and night until I can get a new battery or batteries. I was told if I go to the gel type, they will last longer and I won't have to maintain them because they are sealed. I have a xantrex 2012 rv series inverter charger. I have not seen any such switch. Please advise!!! -- BILL | ||
| Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
Registered Member Username: Jerry_liebler Post Number: 307 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 75.117.212.57 Rating: N/A |
Bill, Generally for RV use an AGM battery is a better choice than a gel battery. Both are sealed and truly maintenence free. The gel is much more fragile and requires a different charge profile than 'flooded' cell batteries while the AGM can use the same charge profile as a 'flooded' battery. The gel technology is better at powering light loads for long times while AGM types shine at delivering larger amounts of power in bursts. Unless there is a very significant cost advantage I would choose the AGM over the gel. I did some internet shopping for AGM batteries recently and found that the most AH/$ was in a size 4d which was rated at 200 AH. Regards Jerry 4107 1120 Regards Jerry 4107 1120 | ||
| William D. Watkins (Sivrtnge2)
Registered Member Username: Sivrtnge2 Post Number: 138 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 68.243.210.142 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Jerry, I appreciate the info. I will start looking for AGM batteries now. -- BILL | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 108 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.162 Rating: N/A |
For mosr folks the price of gel cells can not be justified. The main advantage is the ability to recharge more rapidly than wet cells , usefull where a boondocker has a huge alt belred on the gen set , and wants to charge the bats while running as short a time as can be done. There is also a somewhat lower internal loss rate , so a coach could be abondoned for longer and still remain startable. Since most folks will use the coach once a month to lower maint requirements , this is not a biggie. The weight of lead is the key to batt output . Many times the 2x 6v set (Series) will have more useable amps than the 2 12V (parallel) because there is more lead , and fewer spacers and seperators. Compare the "20 hour rate" on whatever you will purchase. Series 31 does fit (tight) into many racks that were origonally built for a bunch of Series 27. The charge VOLTAGE is also different between gel and wet so BEWARE , overvoltage charge will kill gells , only require some water for the wet cells. FF | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 186 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 4.153.53.188 Rating: N/A |
__. OK, thanks again for all the info but more info overload (again). __. Im in the position that I haven't built my battery racks yet. I'm planning a good bit of boondocking with a fairly light electrical system (power to run an occasional microwave hit, power to water pump, power to ProHeat, and a few LED's for lights). I was thinking about three 12D's. __. What would be a good battery bank for me? Golf carts? 12D's? AGM's look like a good choice. __. I have a plain sheet of paper here. What's my best plan? | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 684 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.3.169.171 Rating: N/A |
I was thinking about three 12D's. 12D's ???? Never heard of such an animal. We went with 6 volt deep cycle lead-acid (wet cell) golf cart batteries. We used Trojan brand, purchased from a golf cart store. After all the research we were able to do on the internet and talking to many people in the battery business, we felt they were the best "bang for our buck". The down side to these batteries is that you MUST check (and sometimes add) water on a regular basis. Failure to do so will lead to early battery failure. The sealed batteries will eliminate this task but were more $$$$. When not traveling, our bus sits inside our shop, plugged into a 30 amp plug. Inverter/charger is on and maintains the batteries in Float mode. Our batteries are about 5 years old and are starting to weaken slightly. This is in part due to my neglect to check the batteries as often as I should (Man, time sure flies as you get older!!)Just our way, YMMV Jack | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 184 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.62.149 Rating: N/A |
Bruce, the best batteries that i had were the L 50 forklift batteries lasted for 11 years and were wet cell this is my second go around with the AGM batteries in 5 years and they are not cheap nowdays.If you don't mine the maintance i would go with the wet cells like Jack.the 105 Trojan is hard to beat if you have enough room for them | ||
| Jerry Campbell (Jerrync)
Registered Member Username: Jerrync Post Number: 101 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.181.119.118 Rating: N/A |
I went with AMG Lifeline batteries because I have them in my water bay. And with that they put out no gas and no danger of corrosion. A bit pricie but I had them now 3 years so for so good and you do have to charge the right way. | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 185 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.62.149 Rating: N/A |
Jerry, when you see a small amount of corrosion on the cables on AGM the Lifeline people told me at a FMCA rally that was a sign of a problem so watch for that as they will have corrosion when going bad, but Lifeline did come to my bus and replace 1 that was bad at no charge. | ||
| Jerry Campbell (Jerrync)
Registered Member Username: Jerrync Post Number: 102 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.181.119.118 Rating: N/A |
lifeline has been good to me to.And make sure that you use the copper bolts that come with them. | ||
| Leslie Robinson (Lesr44)
Registered Member Username: Lesr44 Post Number: 3 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.250.196.10 Rating: N/A |
Hi Bill; here are the specs on your inverter; the switching from type to type of battery on your inverter may be done through the remote control!! go half way down page; this inverter is ok for all 3 types of batterys http://tekrispower.com/inverters/product_info.php/products_id/44 | ||
| William D. Watkins (Sivrtnge2)
Registered Member Username: Sivrtnge2 Post Number: 139 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 68.243.144.59 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Leslie, I will check the specs. ...I guess Iam back to square 1. I got six of 1 and a half dozen the other. -- BILL | ||
| John and Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 32 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 24.197.246.104 Rating: N/A |
This link was posted on the Yahoo MCI site. Don't know if it helps or just repeats what others have said, but it has a lot of info. http://www.batterystuff.com/tutorial_battery.html#3 | ||
| William D. Watkins (Sivrtnge2)
Registered Member Username: Sivrtnge2 Post Number: 140 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 68.243.144.59 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Bigrigger, I'll check check it out!!! -- BILL | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Registered Member Username: Niles500 Post Number: 808 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.42.167.154 Rating: N/A |
Bill - just taking into consideration all the things you have said, I suggest AGM's, less hassle, more peace of mind, and wet cells can be kinda dangerous for people not used to servicing them - FWIW and JMHO | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 110 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.253 Rating: N/A |
Most busses have far more hight than boats or other vehicles , avilable for batteries. The Trojan L16 is a great mid priced unit that does cost a bit more per AH , but is EZ to stow. Hydrocaps will reduce watering requirements by a great deal, but add even more hight. The bus alt or a really high powered recharger will use more water than the usual RV converter. A crappy charger , plugged in all the time will use the most. Solar with an adjustable regulator (trace C12?) is the best for long term storage. We have left our boat for 4-5 months with no hassles from running the batts dry or dead. FF | ||
| William D. Watkins (Sivrtnge2)
Registered Member Username: Sivrtnge2 Post Number: 144 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 70.11.215.167 Rating: N/A |
Thanks all, I am going with AGM batteries. Size, "fit'ems"!!! -- BILL | ||
| Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
Registered Member Username: Jerry_liebler Post Number: 309 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 75.117.212.57 Rating: N/A |
Bill, The best deal I found in larger AGMs is http://atlanticbatteryinc.com/6GFM200A.htm has a Toyo 6gfm200a 210 AH for $315 for $1.50/AH But the Universal UB121100 which is a 110AH battery can be had for only $133.88 at http://www.factoriesonline.com/ProductInfo.aspx?id=3135928 For the ultimat low price of $1.21/AH Regards Jerry 4107 1120 | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 187 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.62.149 Rating: N/A |
Jerry, thats a good price but not much of a warranty 1 year for Toyo and 5 years for Lifeline but thats a big difference in price between the 2 batteries | ||
| William D. Watkins (Sivrtnge2)
Registered Member Username: Sivrtnge2 Post Number: 145 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 70.11.191.173 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the leads!!! I will follow up on them tomorrow!!! -- BILL | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Registered Member Username: Niles500 Post Number: 809 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.42.167.154 Rating: N/A |
Try pricing Trojans - call a few - they'll give you a better price if they think your commercial acct. - HTH | ||
| William D. Watkins (Sivrtnge2)
Registered Member Username: Sivrtnge2 Post Number: 146 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 70.11.181.47 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Niles, I talked with NAPA today here in Thousand Palms, CA, believe it or not, the manager drove over and told me to just fill the batteries with "electrolytes". He said he would start there because they looked a bit low. He then drove back to his store and brought me a bottle. He said he thought I could use another bottle but he was out. This guy drove down to his other store, picked up 2 more bottles and brought them over to me as well. I filled them to capacity and charging them as we speak. I hope this works for now. I will definately be changing them over to the AGM type when I get home. (Whenever thatmight be!!!) -- BILL |
