| Author | Message | ||
| ken whitmore (Cowboykenny)
Registered Member Username: Cowboykenny Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 98.16.175.136 Rating: N/A |
Doing some remodeling in the 66 flxible, was wondering should I use a basic home wall insulation or is there something better out there to use in a bus wall before wallboard? Thanks, Cowboy  | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 118 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.23 Rating: N/A |
The highest price insulation is foam with an R of 7 per inch. AS the space in most bus outer walls is very limited , using the best will pay. Some folks get it sprayed in by a pro, some use HD sheets and glue. Do it Your way, FF | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 692 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.3.169.171 Rating: N/A |
Spray foam will eliminate any surface for condensation to form on, BUT it will be more expensive. Sheets of foam from HD or Lowe's will be cheaper, BUT will allow condensation to form. Your choice, Jack | ||
| john penzotti (Travelingfools)
Registered Member Username: Travelingfools Post Number: 7 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 74.78.165.186 Rating: N/A |
Are we talking condensation between the outside wall/skin and the insulation ? | ||
| ken whitmore (Cowboykenny)
Registered Member Username: Cowboykenny Post Number: 9 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 98.16.176.158 Rating: N/A |
Ok Thankyou for the ideas. Just a small area right now, foam from store will be fine, As for the whole remodel I will use the spray as it sounds better for cond. protection. Thanks, cowboy | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 97 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.165.176.60 Rating: N/A |
I would reconsider the idea of wallboard. Very heavy and will crack with movement. Stick to ply IMO | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 693 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.3.169.171 Rating: N/A |
Are we talking condensation between the outside wall/skin and the insulation ? Yes. Jack | ||
| Florida Cliff (Floridacracker)
Registered Member Username: Floridacracker Post Number: 352 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 24.27.228.156 Rating: N/A |
Jack, I hate to disagree with you, but I respectfully will on this one. I used the Rmax board! What I did was cut it too fit between the ribs and held it in place with about four dabs of construction adhesive. I then ran 1X's horizontal the length of the bus on about a 16" center. Used can spray foam on any of the Rmax seams that wern't extra tight. I then drilled holes in the ribs at about 16" intervals and sprayed can foam to fill the ribs. Next I put Rmax between the 1X's. No sqeeks or condensation..And I could check as it went uncovered for almost a year as I finished my mechanical punch list. By the way, being a little over kill psycho, I taped all the Rmax to 1X's with a/c foil tape before I coverd with plywood. Its quiet in there and cools with 2 a/c's in Florida. Not to mislead, I did a roof raise and have 3 layers of Rmax in the ceiling, using the same 1X method. Which helps from that overhead heat. The main thing to prevent is anyway the metal skin has a direct path to the interior. You must have an insulator or it WILL condensate. Cliff | ||
| John Zabrocki (John_z)
Registered Member Username: John_z Post Number: 58 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 64.61.224.216 Rating: N/A |
Just to further clarify, what is needed is a vapor barrier, not insulation. Of course we want insulation, but it is the job of a vapor barrier to keep moisture from the warm heated interior air reaching the cold metal of the bus.. A good vapor barrier will do its job without any insulation in the wall at all. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 121 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.234 Rating: N/A |
"No sqeeks or condensation..And I could check as it went uncovered for almost a year as I finished my mechanical punch list. No sqeeks or condensation..And I could check as it went uncovered for almost a year as I finished my mechanical punch list." How did you check for condensation between the outer skin and insulation while LIVING aboard , cooking , breathing and showering? FF | ||
| john penzotti (Travelingfools)
Registered Member Username: Travelingfools Post Number: 8 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 74.78.165.186 Rating: N/A |
John, A vapor barrier like some plastic sheeting ? | ||
| John Zabrocki (John_z)
Registered Member Username: John_z Post Number: 59 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 64.61.224.114 Rating: |
Hey John. Yep, poly sheeting works well. Depending on how you are finishing your interior you might want to use black. It is not as visible if it can be seen through the finish wall like some paneling will allow. There are paints that claim to be a vapor barrier, but i have never relied on those. The paper facing on fiberglass rolls is a vapor barrier, but i would still cover these with poly. The vapor barrier goes as close to the heated area as possible, with the insulation on the cold side of it. But, if you have open spaces on the heated side between the finished wall and the barrier, it is ok to fill these voids with fiberglass or other types of insuation, as long the R value of the insulation on the heated side does not exceed 1/3 of the total R value of the wall. | ||
| Florida Cliff (Floridacracker)
Registered Member Username: Floridacracker Post Number: 353 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 68.203.91.64 Rating: N/A |
How did you check for condensation between the outer skin and insulation while LIVING aboard , cooking , breathing and showering? FF Fred, What I did was go around with a IR thermometer while we were LIVING in the bus during trips with considerable temp variations from inside to outside. The only places I had condensation were at direct contact metal to metal, inside to outside. excluding the front, uninsulated glass. Since I could not find a temp variation, or sense a colder or hotter temps at any specific or individual point along my insulation, that there was not any condensation. But I believe this is a reasonable assumption to make, since the temp variation is were the condensation forms. Cliff | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1133 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.68.122.208 Rating: |
Hello Somewhere, between inside warm and outside cold, is the point at which your humidity level in the coach will condense. On the skin behind the insulation, in the middle of the insulation, inside the wall, or on the interior surface where you can see it. Unbreakable rule in the real world, warm air touching a cold surface, there will be condensation formed. The trick is to isolate as much as possible the interior warm, humid air from reaching that condensation point inside your walls. The interior air only comes in contact with surfaces which are fairly close in temp as the interior. Porous building materials do not seal the walls from air intrusion. That is why the huge tent of plastic vapour barrior gets put up in your house, just before the drywall gets screwed onto the interior walls. The vapour barrior and part way into the wall are warm, the point where condensation would happen is in there somewhere behind that barrior, out of reach of the warm humid air. No warm humid air in the wallspace, no damp and ineffective insulation. And all those other things, mould, rust, rot, yuck. You want to defend against inside warm air getting into the walls/ceiling. Spray foam does have its advantages? happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 127 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.253 Rating: N/A |
Spray foam does have its advantages? The usual problem with spray foam is it needs to expand UNRESTRICTED in order to get the advertized R value. This requires a very very thin spray , time to completly expand , and perhaps another shot. Then the clean up (it will be bulged beyond the coach ribs)is a mess. Simplest I have seen is an air powered body shop "jitterbug" with a board mounted that can span the ribs (foam depth guide) with floor sanding paper glued on. The floor paper is Silicon carbide and #16 works well. Kinda looks like rocks glued on a hunk of cardboard , but works fine. A single piece will do any coach. WEAR a MASK !!!!! FF |
