| Author | Message | ||
| L James Jones Jr (Jamo)
Registered Member Username: Jamo Post Number: 19 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 74.79.238.110 Rating: N/A |
Hi all, I bought two new 8D's for the 4104 in Oct. Should I pull them and bring 'em in where it's warm? If I leave 'em in the bus, should I put a charger on them every few weeks to keep them up? If so, how many amps and how long? I have an old charger from my trucking days, with a 300 amp boost...with 3 settings on 12v, 3 on 6v. Don't want to boil these puppies....whaddya think?? Even if I bring them in, I'll need some charging advice. BTW: we do get 30 below zero (F) or more (less) around here... Thanks............Jamo | ||
| Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
Registered Member Username: Jerry_liebler Post Number: 314 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 67.140.167.10 Rating: N/A |
Jamo, Go to: http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=float+charger&Submit=Go Then search for 'float charger' Get one or several of these. Hook one up on the bus with a long extension cord. Check water & charge in the spring. They use negligible power when the battery is fully charged but will keep your bus batterys fully charged without ever boiling them. Regards Jerry 4107 1120 | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 556 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.32 Rating: N/A |
Allow me to maybe disagree here a little with Jerry because I boiled two heavy duty 950cca batteries dry in my fire truck with these float chargers over one winter. "Float charger" can mean different things depending on who is selling them. These from HF may not do that with 8Ds but I wouldn't take a chance since they are new. After this experience I bought two Battery Tenders, about $45 apiece, but they will never boil a battery over since they have pretty sophisticated electronic controls and even "pulse charge" if necessary. If a "float charger" sells for much less than $40 it is probably not very good. | ||
| Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
Registered Member Username: Jerry_liebler Post Number: 315 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 67.140.167.10 Rating: N/A |
Gus, You must have gotten a defective charger! I have 6 of the cheap harbor frieght units,$7.50ea. They All work very well with a regulated output voltage of 12.8 to 12.9 volts. I've taken one apart, they use a 3 terminal voltage regulator. In todays world of semiconductor technology, excellent electronics are incredibly cheap. If you're worried measure the output voltage before connecting them, if it's under 13.2 they are within ALL battery makers float charge recomendations. Regards Jerry 4107 1120 | ||
| L James Jones Jr (Jamo)
Registered Member Username: Jamo Post Number: 20 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 74.79.238.110 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Guys... I do have a Battery Tender (maybe a battery tender junior??) that I use on my Harleys. I hook them up for an overnight now and then over the winter. I do not trust the shut down when fully charged feature. Guess I figured charging 8D's would stress the tender to death. I do have other chargers, like 2-10 amp, 6 or 12v. Should I just do a slow charge at low amps every few weeks as I do the Harleys?? | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1127 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.66.18.54 Rating: N/A |
Hello Jamo. I support your strategy. It's been working for the Harley.... I use one of those automatic cheapie battery chargers to maintain the fleet in winter storage. Over the course of each month, it rotates around all the stuff, cars, lawnmower, farm tractor, boat battery. (I find the little lawn mower batteries last many years longer if I throw it on there once a month all year long, the charge off the mower is less than ideal) The bus used to be in the rotation, (have to connect it one battery at a time) but the Trace SW4024 gets to do that duty now. happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 178 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
Jamo A fully charged battery will not freeze, even at minus 30. If your bus is not going to be started during the winter months, consider putting them in warm storage. If a battery freezes it will cause irrepairable harm and they will be relegated to the junk pile. I am using a couple of "smart" chargers, which "float" the batteries varying between 13.1 and 13.3 volts. The chargers come on automatically every few hours for a few minutes and do their charging ( the house bank 1 1/2 amps) and then turn themselves off. To ensure the state of charge of a battery rely on a hydrometer for best results. Joe. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 557 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.40 Rating: N/A |
Jamo, The Jr Battery Tender has a max of 0.75 amps or something like that and the other one is double the amps. So, the Jr just takes longer but does the same job. An 8D is not too large for the BT, I use mine on my diesel tractor 8Ds and it works fine, just takes longer. The BTs not only charge well but they tell when the battery is 80% charged and can be used. They also pulse charge when necessary so keep plate sulfation down - no float charger does that. I like the BT so much because I have about 18 vehicles, mostly old timers, and keeping batteries charged is a full time job. I've tried every battery charger on the market that I know of and none work as well as the BT. If you need to charge a battery faster or need a starting boost that is the time to use one of the 5-10 amp regular chargers, but they don't have the smarts of the BT and can easily over charge. (Message edited by gusc on December 11, 2007) | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 180 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
Gus My understanding is that sulfating only takes place on partially discharged batteries. So if you take a fully charged battery (100%) and apply your float voltage eg 13.2 volts, then sulfating should not be taking place. Also the battery will not selfdischarge at the typical 1 to 3 percent rate per day, because that is the reason for "floating". Gently floating also eliminates loss of water which would happen if a charge voltage of 14v or higher were applied. Joe. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 558 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.29 Rating: N/A |
Joe, I am no battery expert so I can only tell you what happened to me. I boiled all the water out of those two heavy duty batteries over the winter with float chargers from HF. My conclusion was that the float chargers over charged the batteries. I was really surprised at this since I knew the max charging amps was very small, about the same as the BT. This has never happened to me when using the BTs since they can't over charge. I now own four of them. I'm not knocking HF either, I buy a lot of stuff from them. It's just that those cheapos just don't have the electronic brains of a BT. I still use them but only for a few days at a time. In case anyone is wondering I have no connection with BT whatsoever, don't even know who makes them. | ||
| Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
Registered Member Username: Jerry_liebler Post Number: 316 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 67.140.172.168 Rating: N/A |
Gus, I hate to break your bubble BUT even the high priced BT will boil a battery that has one dead cell. The electronic 'smarts' are no different than the HF units. Regards Jerry 4107 1120 | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
Registered Member Username: Chucks Post Number: 1178 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.3.25.158 Rating: N/A |
The HFT's are now on sale for $4.98.... I've had two for years and they seem just fine, but I still do reg. checkups to be sure. Ya'll make a guy paranoid over the years...I'm afraid to drive down the highway anymore.  | ||
| Stephen (Mohave_steve)
Registered Member Username: Mohave_steve Post Number: 10 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 74.32.81.113 Rating: N/A |
I would agree with Jerry that if you have one or more shorted cells then the voltage provided by the BT would be sufficient to boil the remaining cells. My question: If you allready have 1 or more failed cells in the battery wouldn't you have to replace it anyway??? Following is quoted from BT website: The Battery Tender Plus battery charger delivers 1.25 amperes during bulk charge mode, holds the battery charge voltage constant at 14.4 VDC during absorption charge mode until the battery charge current drops to 0.1 amperes at which time it then automatically switches to a float charge mode. During float charge mode, the output voltage of the Battery Tender Plus battery charger is 13.2 VDC, which is well below the gassing voltage of a lead acid battery. This keeps the battery topped off, while minimizing any detrimental effects to do gassing. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 559 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.30 Rating: N/A |
The two batteries I put on the HF chargers were almost new, no dead cells or any other problems. I understood that float chargers would keep them charged and prevent sulfating, I now know better. As I remember the BT will not charge if the battery voltage is below 10v so a dead cell would keep it from even trying to charge, | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 185 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
Gus I checked my house batts this afternoon. Out of 18 cells I checked 6 and in every one of them the bobber was ready to go into orbit, indicating a fully charged condition. I also double checked with a voltmeter the float voltage and it measured 13.1 volts. Your experience with the HF chargers, makes me think that they were not what you were led to believe they were. Joe. |