| Author | Message | ||
| ken whitmore (Cowboykenny)
Registered Member Username: Cowboykenny Post Number: 22 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 98.16.176.61 Rating: N/A |
What would be the best, most powerfull 110 heater that could be used as a backup in a 32 ft coach? I want to be able to plug it in anywhere but not have to have a dedicated outlet just for that. Thanks | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1170 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.66.18.128 Rating: |
For a regular plug, you are limited to the usual 15 amp circuit. So, roughly a little less than 5000 BTU, 1875 watts max, all those heaters in the box store that are rated at 1500 watts are fair game. You can use more than one, each on their own circuit, provided you have enough power behind it to make it all go. Is that what you were asking? happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Douglas Wotring (Tekebird)
Registered Member Username: Tekebird Post Number: 296 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 71.230.10.75 Rating: N/A |
best option......a webasto airtop diesel fueld forced hot air heater.....no need for any shore connection and more than adequate heat output by itself down to freezing | ||
| Dan West (Utahclaimjumper)
Registered Member Username: Utahclaimjumper Post Number: 84 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 208.66.38.115 Rating: |
Don't get snookered into the "infra red cured copper heaters now being plugged, they are still 5000 BTUs any way you cut it..>>>Dan | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 197 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: |
Dan As seen on television !!! Joe. | ||
| John Zabrocki (John_z)
Registered Member Username: John_z Post Number: 62 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 64.61.224.81 Rating: |
1 watt of electicity = 3.4129 btu of heat. Don't matter how much you pay for the heater, there is no magic way to squeeze more heat out. I cannot get over the people paying 500.00 or more for those infra-red/cured copper heaters. Just unreal! | ||
| ken whitmore (Cowboykenny)
Registered Member Username: Cowboykenny Post Number: 23 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 98.16.171.126 Rating: N/A |
I have tried 4 different of the small ceramic style portabe 110 heaters. They all seem to have different heat output even though they all say 1500 watts max. Now I realize Im asking for alot out of a 15 circut but you know the stereo advertised at 10000 watts, but it really puts out 12 !! Just wanting some suggestions on models that stand out as quality, For instance, ace has a longated infered small model that is very high heat at only 29 bucks. And then theres the $500 model that is no better that the $29 model. So what gives? Thanks again folks, kenny | ||
| John Zabrocki (John_z)
Registered Member Username: John_z Post Number: 64 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 64.61.224.81 Rating: |
I think some difference could be felt depending on how the heat is delivered. A more powerful fan will feel cooler than a fan that is moving less air. Also, a heater rated at 1500 watts may not in fact be consuming 1500 watts. I have 3 fan forced elec htrs in my bus stashed in various places. There is nothing wrong with the old standby Titan milkhouse heater. It has a high/low heat setting; thermostat; and a safety tip-over switch. I guess reg price to be about 30.00, less at the discount stores about this time of year. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 351 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.75.253 Rating: N/A |
Kenny, John's comments immediately above are absolutely correct! Everybody in the world gets 3.41 BTU/Watt of resistance heat, period. So, the cheapest heater you can buy is probably the best, ignoring looks, fan noise etc. You will also see oil filled radiators advertised with a slogan something like "keeps on heating with the power off." True, but what they DON'T say is that it doesn't put out any heat until the oil warms up! Take to heart everyone elses comments above about annealed copper, infrared, etc, heaters with a $400-500 price range. (Actually, you will be HOT when you find out you paid $400+ for a heater that puts out exactly the same as a $39.95 plastic jobber!!!) Please look down the list at "Suncloud/bubble insulation," or something like that, for the whole story. You will note that several people, me included, mentioned that 5200 BTU is 5200 BTU, period, and that 1500 Watts produces 5200 BTU, no matter how expensive the heater. After several of us said the same thing, the original poster called us a bunch of names, and quit. It is also worth noting that in the Flea Market about the same time, someone was looking for a propane furnace, and the $400+ heater proponent said he should buy one of these Sun Clouds. Well, the poster looking for a furnace answered back with "No thanks, I'd need another bus to carry the batteries." This is one topic where you DON'T get what you pay for! A 1500 Watt heater will draw 13 Amps, which is just about all you will get out of one receptacle, and whatever you do, don't use a small gauge extension cord on an electric heater. We want you around! HTH, G | ||
| Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
Registered Member Username: Jerry_liebler Post Number: 324 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 71.31.2.17 Rating: N/A |
John, What you said is simply not true!!! "1 watt of electicity = 3.4129 btu of heat. Don't matter how much you pay for the heater, there is no magic way to squeeze more heat out." The 'magic' way to squeze more heat out of a watt is called a 'heat pump'. My ductless minisplit heat pump delivers 18,000BTU/h while using 1460 watts, when the outside temperature is over 36f. That's about 3.6 times the heat one would get from a simple resistance heater with the same power use. Even at 0 degrees f outside it is still delivering more than twice the heat per watt compared to resistance heat. The downsides, it ain't cheap and it required a good bit of installation. But it also is a great air conditioner. Regards Jerry 4107 1120 | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 353 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.75.253 Rating: N/A |
Jerry, This is just a hello message, and you are right as usual. We both know what HSPF stands for, and I really appreciate the second part of your post regarding outdoor temperatures. A while back someone else said that a heat pump was a great source of heat in Alaska, and there were new ones that worked well in VERY cold weather. I asked him for documentation two months ago, and am still waiting..., so you know what that means. Anyhoo, regards, George (Message edited by George Mc6 on January 26, 2008) | ||
| John Zabrocki (John_z)
Registered Member Username: John_z Post Number: 65 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 64.61.224.6 Rating: N/A |
Jerry, i would be interested in learning all about your setup. You have posted before how great it is, but i have not seen any details as to what brand/model, etc it is. Care to share what you learned in putting together your setup? Or maybe you have already documented the process at some web site. If so, give us the address. BTW, how much is the cost for your system? | ||
| Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
Registered Member Username: Jerry_liebler Post Number: 325 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 71.31.2.17 Rating: N/A |
John, There are several units for sale on Ebay that are probably the same as mine. Mine is a Celiera 51GWX1A that I bought from AC World in Detroit. It appears that the identical unit is sold under brands of: Harbor Point, Ramsound, Bon Aire and possibly others. Since the 18,000BTU units require 240 volts but only use 6.4 amps @240, I used a 120 volt isolation transformer to supply half of the 240 so I only use 120 volt power. The isolation transformer cost me about $100 through Ebay. It is rated at 15 amps and easily supplies the starting surges. I had to cut 2" off of the width of the outdoor unit to fit it in the former condensor bay, where it is bolted down to a couple of pieces of aluminum angle stock I had to add. My indoor unit is mounted on the left side at the top of the Wall behind the driver. I would recomend, however that it should be on the right side instead because where it is the co pilot gets the best cool air blast & I want it instead. Counting the visit from a local HVAC contractor to evacuate the unit after I had installed it I have a total of $1200 invested & it is really worth it. Regards Jerry 4107 1120 | ||
| John Zabrocki (John_z)
Registered Member Username: John_z Post Number: 66 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 64.61.224.182 Rating: N/A |
Jerry, i want to get rid of the roof top air units on my coach soon. Not sure i can afford it this year or not. I am thinking about putting some type of home unit into the basement, more than likely into the front bays right behind the wheels. The cost and everything associated with your project sounds within reason, but i am not an electrician, and as nice as it all sounds i am sure it is beyond the scope of my ability. It is interesting what you say about putting the outlet on the curb side so it hits the driver better. My instinct would have been to mount it on the driver side also. Thanks for the info. It sounds like a job well done! | ||
| Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
Registered Member Username: Jerry_liebler Post Number: 327 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 71.31.2.17 Rating: N/A |
John, There are many 12,000 BTU units that wouldn't require the transformer trick. Frankly a 12000 BTU ductless minisplit will outperform ANY 15,000 BTU roof wart. This is because the RV units are rated under different conditions and their actual performance under the conditions the household units must be rated at is well under the 12,000 BTU/h. Additionally the rooftop heat pumps simply switch off when the outside temp is below 40 while the household units continue working all be it at reduced heat output. When you get ready I'll be glad to 'consult'. Send me an off board email with your phone # & I'll give you a call. Regards Jerry 4107 1120 | ||
| ken whitmore (Cowboykenny)
Registered Member Username: Cowboykenny Post Number: 24 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 98.16.173.17 Rating: N/A |
wow, This is interesting, Love this board and its input. I am learnin alot. Thanks again and keep the ideas coming. So far the $29 menards jobbie is winning, Would love to be involved in a late night bus get-together in a campground and hear one of these talks around the campfire, cowboy | ||
| John Zabrocki (John_z)
Registered Member Username: John_z Post Number: 67 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 64.61.224.166 Rating: N/A |
Jerry, i am going to take you up on your offer. I appreciate the help. I need to read up on the minisplit unit, and see if that is what i am looking for. Right now i don't think i know enough about them; how they work; etc. What do you feel are the pluses and minuses about them? | ||
| Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
Registered Member Username: Jerry_liebler Post Number: 328 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 71.31.2.17 Rating: N/A |
John, The minuses are cost and installation complexity, as they consist of 2 parts that both have to be mounted, wired and connected by 2 tubes which must be evacuated before the system can be run. This is compared to ducted basement units, roof warts, or window units which only require mounting and wireing one unit and no tube runs or services of HVAC professionals, although ducted basement units are as costly. The pluses include, they are very quiet and offer far and away the greatest efficiency, especially in heating modes. Regards Jerry 4107 1120 | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 580 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.49 Rating: N/A |
I recommend the small cheapo 1500W heaters from WalMart with thermostats. Don't get one without a thermostat because it runs all the time. We heat our 4104 with two of these with no problem and it is not at all well insulated. Two or three of these on LOW around the bus will keep it cozy and not overtax the circuits. LOW is 900W which is plenty. This can also give you a good idea of proper placement of permanent heaters if you decide to go that route later. | ||
| David Lower (Dave_l)
Registered Member Username: Dave_l Post Number: 9 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 209.29.175.172 Rating: N/A |
Hi Jerry that is a neet idea useing the mini split I know they work great all our tents at Kandahar Air Field have them they would easily keep the tent at 70 deg inside when it is 130 deg outside. Was there any reason you chose that brand and size. I ask this because I am going to replace the roof ones so i went to the website where they are selling them and they had a 9000 btu unit that ran on 115 volt 6.7-6.9 amps. And was rated for 350 sq feet. Thanks David (Message edited by Dave l on January 27, 2008) | ||
| Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
Registered Member Username: Jerry_liebler Post Number: 329 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 71.31.2.17 Rating: N/A |
David, I chose the size because it offers the most BTU/watt and could be run on a 15 amp shore cord. In addition I was replacing 2 portables rated at 10,000BTU/h each and they were very inadequet. I now know for sure the portables were rated fraudulently. As it has turned out it is just the right size to cool my whole bus. The brand was one of 3 with the same specs but I could pick it up and avoid shipping costs which I couldn't with the other brands. Regards Jerry 4107 1120 | ||
| JR Lynch (Njt5047)
Registered Member Username: Njt5047 Post Number: 215 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.132.233.230 Rating: N/A |
For a portable 'sit it anywhere' 110V heater, George Todd has the best answer so far...the upright oil filled radiator looking heaters make a ton of heat. They don't have a fan, but most fans are useless anyway. They have multiple heat ranges. I have no idea how the oil filled heaters work, but they work well. JR | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 854 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.5 Rating: N/A |
Lowes has milk house heaters with two heat settings and fan, overheat protection and tip over shut off. 20 bucks each and they work fine. probably could buy 15 for the price of a heat pump.Not as good, but good for temp heat and are always useful for emergency or temporary heating needs.You can check them out online. | ||
| David (Davidinwilmnc)
Registered Member Username: Davidinwilmnc Post Number: 223 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 152.20.216.103 Rating: N/A |
I'm a big fan of the radiator style oil-filled heaters. What they lack in a fan (they don't have one) they make up in heat radiating surface. I use one of these in our pop-up camper and it works great. Like a real radiator, it's a bit slow to warm up, and it stays warm a while when you turn it off. This is good, though, as it's a very even heat. I also think they're a bit safer than the little forced air heaters, although I use those too. I have one that the fan's broken, but the overheat trips only when the casing gets hot. The casing doesn't get hot unless the fan blows. It's a very poor design, obviously. I got radiator heater for about $17 at Lowe's last year in Feb on clearance. The downside is that they're a bit bulky. David | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 583 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.212 Rating: N/A |
David, I agree with you and have one in a home bathroom. My only complaint for a bus is they are so big and heavy. Have you ever seen a smaller size than the ones with 6-7 coils? About half that size would be just right or, even better, a baseboard type. type. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 855 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.5 Rating: N/A |
Remember, he was looking for a backup.... Those small fan forced units are LIGHT and COMPACT and also don't have the potential to leak oil if in storage in one of the bays for a long time without use and bouncing, vibration, rubbing against other items. Those oil cooled are nice once they get up to temp, but they still won't distribute the heat around the room as fast as a fan forced unit when needing heat in a hurry. Pretty much all heat sources in coaches have a fan to distribute the heat, especially needed near cold windows and on breezy days. Imagine lugging an oil filled unit out of one of your bays to carry into the coach in the middle of the night. | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 583 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.108.88 Rating: N/A |
Ken - JR, David and Gus, have it right! The upright oil-filled radiators provide a more constant heat for less moolah. Be careful, though, some of the el'cheapo's can leak, causing a fire hazard. Make sure there are no dings or dents upon purchase or usage. We used two in sub-zero weather, and they heated more than the "disc furnaces" ever did. They may take awhile to heat up, but they stay hot and provide a nice even heat. A small fan can help distribute the heat, if desired. We used one 12vdc computer fan, to get the heat under a sink. They're not all that heavy either, but I suppose you'll just have to judge that for yourself. | ||
| ken whitmore (Cowboykenny)
Registered Member Username: Cowboykenny Post Number: 25 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 98.16.173.17 Rating: N/A |
Hello Everyone, Thanks for all the input. Looks like the winner is ???? After many differnt trials on a backup heater, I have went with two small Lakewood brand forced air ribbon heaters, were by far more powerfull and warmer than 10 others. (Model 202 or 205 I believe) I listened to several other ideas also and went with an upright oil filled heater for the house. Takes way longer to heat up but does provide more consistant quiet heat. The search is over and I am satisfied that there are serious differences in small heaters with the same 1500 watts max label. Take time to try em all, its worth the wait, Springs just around the corner for us midwesteners so pack your bags, were going bussin, Thanks, cowboy | ||
| Steve Krane (Steve_krane)
Registered Member Username: Steve_krane Post Number: 31 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 76.176.108.66 Rating: N/A |
It is true that all electrical heaters turn all of the current into heat (they are 100% efficient). But, if you are trying to warm a person, (instead of a space) it is more efficient to not heat the air so much but direct radiant energy directly at the person. What's the point of all the warm air molecules that are not touching you! But, there are limitations. Its also important what the radiant environment of the inside is. Its cold to sit near a cold window even if the air is warm. |
