| Author | Message | ||
| Jim Schrecengost (Schrec)
Registered Member Username: Schrec Post Number: 58 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 24.2.127.94 Rating: N/A |
Have been searching the archives and found the same question but nobody said if they did it so.... I am installing a 24 x 32 tub up against the wall in the rear bay. I am thinking about cutting a hole in the floor and lowering the tub 3 - 4 inches. Anybody ever do this?? Basically i would build a "table" in the bay for it to sit on, but what type of twisting stress would there be on this "table". And what would most of you buuild this table out of? ANY advice would be appriciated before I pull out the saw. Thanks Jim | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 196 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.92 Rating: N/A |
ALL early GM coaches are aircraft style monocoque construction. This lets them be roughly 1 to 3 tons lighter in each size than semi monocoque or framed and clad. Think of a beer can , cutting any hole is a structural disaster .INCLUDING chopping holes in a structural floor. I have visited many coaches with bath tubs , NONE were anything but storage after 3 months on the road. A coach shower is to GET CLEAN , not a theraputic suite , too little water , too little water heating ability , too much weight in waste water. Even at the power pole, with city water and hooked up waste , most coaches have a hard time creating a tub of hot water, unless the coach HW heater is 60-80G. Plan B? FF | ||
| Jim Schrecengost (Schrec)
Registered Member Username: Schrec Post Number: 59 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 24.2.127.94 Rating: N/A |
FF, Its not really a tub in the sense that I will be using to soak in. It was the cheapest i could find, basically being used as a shower pan. So you say no..... any ideas on how to get more headroom?? Thanks Jim | ||
| Glenn Williams (Glenn)
Registered Member Username: Glenn Post Number: 126 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 216.163.57.205 Rating: N/A |
Jim, I can't remember from my old 4905, but is there metal framework under the flooring other than the bulkheads to get in the way? The other question is would your hole be cutting into 1 piece of wood, or two? I'd worry about two a little bit. I have seen in a BCM mag where someone did exactly what you would like, but it might not have been in a GMC. Don't feel bad about using what is handy and cheap! I'm recycling a tub out of a trailer and I will use it as a bath for my 17month old son. It's a lot easier to clean a toddler in a tub (even with low water) than in a shower. Although there is something to be said about garden hoses...  | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
Registered Member Username: Daved Post Number: 189 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 142.46.199.30 Rating: N/A |
How about a domed skylight to give more headroom? We do have a 54" long tub in our MC-8, with a 10 gal water heater. The main reason was for cleaning up our grandchildren. but it is suitable for an adult to use. A little bigger water heater would be a plus. DaveD | ||
| Ed Jewett (Kristinsgrandpa)
Registered Member Username: Kristinsgrandpa Post Number: 365 Registered: 2-2003 Posted From: 64.24.208.182 Rating: N/A |
I had a 24" X 32" tub in a motorhome and liked it. It made it harder to splash water on the floor and it didn't become a storage bin,(I shower daily) it didn't use anymore water than a shower stall. The amount of water you use is determined by the faucet not the floor. I think they make great shower stall bases, they are more versatile.(you can wash large items like blankets and quilts in them) I was going to use one as it was narrower than a shower stall (fit my floor plan better) with enough room to stll move around, but I got a good deal on a shower stall that would work. Ed | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 835 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.5 Rating: N/A |
Use Fred's idea... He has a 55 gal. drum bungeed along one wall. He uses a step stool to get in it. and when he wants a whirlpool, he puts a trolling motor in it and runs an air hose from his compressor for air bubbling. Works and is cheap.DIHW!! . BTW my 4905 has a recessed shower in it for head clearance. Sticks down in one bay about 10 to 12 inches. Looks like a good idea, and less chance of water leaking out on floor. Was in coach when purchased. Looks to be a quality job. Coach hasn't collasped from loss of structural rigidity YET. | ||
| Simon Ayriss (Design_dog)
Registered Member Username: Design_dog Post Number: 96 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 69.227.189.77 Rating: N/A |
Actually 55 gal drums are great and you can pick them up locally cheap for all kinds of good use. Maybe not for a full-timer but you could certainly make a great little weekend bus setup for cheap. Or use them to store other things in your bay. Greyhound bolted down a drum in the back bay which was in constant use to supply water for 47 passengers for years. I still have mine back there, haven't taken it out yet. Everyone is different but my biggest fear is making sure the entire bus, back, firewall, floor is insulated and structurally 100% leak-proof. Sounds crazy but when you pull up old panels of flooring and see black and figure in about the next 10 years of running engine [while your driving and living in it] and heat you'll know why. [the above half with water leaks is whole other issue.] I don't know how much head clearance there is in your bus and I would probably ask how much headroom is in a standard RV like a mid-sized Winnebago? I am all for getting a good deal. but I am thinking the money you spend having to frame it and put it in [sounds like you may need to weld in braces] then you may not save that much in time and work to get 3-4 inches if you don't plan to use it as a tub. What I am getting is this. Seems like most RV's with a tub use a flex spray shower head so if you can stand up in your bus how much do you loose on a sunken shower stall? I think about 4 or 5 inches. What I would do, and I need to do this, is to take a good look around in the RV market. Go to a RV lot and take a good look at different RV's and how they do it. There are tons of stuff out there in the RV market that are completely unique and in many different configurations at a decent price. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 836 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.5 Rating: N/A |
Remember, almost all RV's have pretty much square corners and no baggage compartments, except coach wannabees. Plus, most RV's I've been in shows have higher ceilings. They are, however, good to see at shows to see some unique ideas, esp. on the shorter ones. One major problem that I've seen in the last 4 or 5 years is that they almost look the same inside in the larger class A's since one or two companies own most of the brands now. It sure has killed off a lot of inovation. Also, seems like every one in every size have 2 or more slideouts. They never show how they look with them run in for travelling.Awhile back, FFred recommended to going to a boat show to see some real innovation.Sounds like a great idea. Haven't been to one myself as there isn't any significant water areas in central PA. Although my neighbor is building a huge ark like boat....he mumbles something about a big flood-BWAHAHAHA.......uh wait GLOBAL WARMING...AUGHHHHH.Sorry, got carried away. | ||
| Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
Registered Member Username: Jerry_liebler Post Number: 322 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 71.31.0.122 Rating: N/A |
Fast Fred, Your comments about true bath tubs in a buss sure sound like 'sour grapes'! It may take a bit of creativity to make a workable bath tub but I am glad I did. I enjoy my jetted tub. I have enough water on board (180 gallons) for 3 or more full up baths and enough waste capacity too (220 gallons). I have plenty of hot water because of a Webasto and flat plate heat exchanger. And, thanks to my adaptation of your idea, I don't have the wasted space most use for a shower. I have a closet over the tub except when it is in use. To use the tub the closet rolls back over a bed, as it is suspended from rollers in tracks along the ceiling and outer wall. Regards Jerry 4107 1120 | ||
| Jim Schrecengost (Schrec)
Registered Member Username: Schrec Post Number: 60 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 24.2.127.94 Rating: N/A |
Thaks all. I've decided to go ahead and lower the tub. I say tub very but it is only 2feet wide and 2 1/2 feet long I couldn't sit in it if my life depended on it, ANyway thanks for all the input. Jim | ||
| Simon Ayriss (Design_dog)
Registered Member Username: Design_dog Post Number: 98 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 69.227.189.77 Rating: N/A |
John. What can I say. Great Post! I'm actually thinking of putting flotation devices underneath and a hull and hoping for the best when the day comes. hehheh. I agree. I actually have seen some fairly innovative things done in shower stuff on slightly older RV's. Haven't been to a new RV show yet. One of the things I have seen is a Shower, tub, and Sink - all in one from a 70's RV. Not maybe for me but a great space saver, it looked great and was a fantastic idea. The boat show is a great idea. Anything with smaller space the more innovative you have to be. I recently enjoyed reading a post from Sean and Louise's Our Odyssey website [hope he doesn't mind me posting] and seeing for the first time this rig called Draco. Interesting to read and look at. -- But I guess you could make the whole side of one bay a shower stall if you wanted to [I want to see pictures of it if you do it] :-) - but there might be a few options. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 574 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.75 Rating: N/A |
My 4104 came with a full size house tub and shower setup. The sides were cut down slightly to accommodate the lower roof line but otherwise it is stock household. I only use the shower but my wife uses and appreciates the tub. A tub uses no more water than a shower, depends on how much water you use in the tub?? We have a 6gal heater and 90gl fresh water tank, no problems so far? There is a steel structure on a 4104 to which the plywood floor is bolted and I doubt the 4106 is any different because the two are so similar. This steel framework and plywood floor is the bottom fourth of the complete cocoon which makes up the 4104/4106 monocoque design so it is structural. If you do cut out any of this structure I recommend you make a steel square around the tub attached to the original steel structure to take up stress, of which twisting is probably the most important in the floor. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 199 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.22 Rating: N/A |
"If you do cut out any of this structure I recommend you make a steel square around the tub attached to the original steel structure to take up stress, of which twisting is probably the most important in the floor." AND If you do chop up the structural floor the reinforcement method is to glue and screw a 4 inch wide ring the thickness of the floor of wood (waterproof ply?)BOTH above and below the cut out.Epoxy is probably the best glue. FF | ||
| Jim Schrecengost (Schrec)
Registered Member Username: Schrec Post Number: 61 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 24.2.127.94 Rating: N/A |
I believe the only thing that i will be cutting is the wood floor, no steel or other beams. When I make my lower "new" floor I'll use your idea FF to ensure that it will be reinforced. Jim | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 575 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.66 Rating: N/A |
Fred's idea is good buy you will probably find the plywood floor so stained, oily and decomposed that finding a glue that will stick to it may be impossible. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 203 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.110 Rating: N/A |
you will probably find the plywood floor so stained, oily and decomposed that finding a glue that will stick to it may be impossible. In that case use the glue AND a series of screws that catch both ply rings. Or a series of bolts , be generous 3 or 4 inch spacing max. FF | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 217 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.240.141.183 Rating: N/A |
Just a tip on the glue.....try Sikaflex. About ten bucks per tube, but will trowel and stick to most anything. Check the website. I built an aluminum "box" which holds a pump. Sikaflexed inside, out and to the floor. Twixt the rear drivers. Made a quasi Shower sit down thing. Floor is tiled and sides up to and including seat. Balance is plastic sheet....like one sees in Lowes or HD restrooms. No tub. Worked out fine and so far (6 years)no problems...xxx.fingers crossed. This all thanx to FF years ago...(check archives...) FWIW RCB '64 Crown Supercoach (HWC) | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 578 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.224 Rating: N/A |
The problem with any adhesive in these old GMCs is that the plywood floor soaks up so much crap and decomposes so much that the plys tend to separate easily. So, even if you have a good adhesive there is nothing to stick to - kind of like trying to glue dust. I would use some kind of really good adhesive but would rely mostly on bolting the pieces of wood together. That said, I wouldn't even use wood, I would use metal for the frame because wood is not that strong in a square shape unless it is glued very well so that it then becomes part of the original wood. A good, clean wood joint is as strong as the original wood but there is little chance of a clean joint here. A single metal frame welded at the corners and bolted in will give all the structural supporth you will ever need and won't be so thick like the wood. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 842 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.5 Rating: N/A |
Make sure you put a good coating on the steel framework to avoid rusting. An epoxy coating would be nice if Aluminum is too expensive. Stainless steel bolts would be nice also. The other thing you could find is that the wood is rotting near the window area where you are going to do the cutout. Check underneath in the baggage compartment. Look for bulging or swelling, you can gently poke around with an ice pic. Also becareful where you plan your cut as the baggage door hinge springs are attached in that general area, at least on 4905's. Don't know about 4106's; never paid attention to one with the doors open. |