| Author | Message | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 212 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.226.18 Rating: N/A |
A friend is looking at a coach with one of these installed. Probably only has 50,000 miles since 1972 when new. To get it running will be at least injectors , a starter and valve adj. At least a grand . Any comments on this grandaddy? FF | ||
| Skip N (Skip)
Registered Member Username: Skip Post Number: 15 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 161.7.2.160  Rating: N/A |
Fred... Not familiar with a Cat 1106 Over the road 1972 engines era started the 3208,3304,3306, 3406 3408 etc still some 1693's etc. Did a search at Cat and came up nada  Not to say didn't exist and cat did re-number some engines for special apps ie: D333 for Stieger A picture would help...I'll look in my books this weekend FWIW Skip (Message edited by skip on February 15, 2008) | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 275 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.60.233 Rating: N/A |
Fred, that a huge v8 for a bus or it a line 6 with the injection pump mounted on the right looking from the front with 6 small looking injector pumps on top of the pump base (Message edited by luvrbus on February 15, 2008) | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 864 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.5  Rating: N/A |
What kind of bus? Figure on ripping it out and putting a Detroit in it in the price. Also what about the vibration unless it was one fantastic installation. Was it in the coach from new or when new engine installed? Does it turn over by hand? Why does it need a starter? | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 213 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.131 Rating: N/A |
The coach had a 6-71 and some dummy installed this engine which I'm told is the daddy to the 3208,. It was a "new" engine when installed in 1972 , the bus is a 56 Flex VL 100. It has a 5 speed auto , but we haven't figured WHICH tranny it is yet. A Series 50 would be ideal, but there pri$y still. My thought would be a DT 466 , as there cheap and reliable. But the question is is it worth saving the existing V8???. Its smooth after warm up,so probably the best medicine would be a 1000 mile flank speed run across the flatlands,and carry a case of fuel filters!! And an oil change every 1000 miles . FF | ||
| Greg Smith (Pawsbus)
Registered Member Username: Pawsbus Post Number: 11 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 74.127.212.148 Rating: N/A |
That engine is probably the Cat 1160. I put one of those in one of my tow trucks. Ran good, excellent fuel mileage, and tons of power. It replaced a 3208 | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 866 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.5 Rating: N/A |
Probably keep it then. Your idea of a road test might not be a bad idea. Maybe some gentle trips with new oil and filters and then have an oil sample analyzed. If it is in good shape, it'll probably outlast the coach. | ||
| doug yes (Dougg)
Registered Member Username: Dougg Post Number: 41 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 75.88.125.151 Rating: N/A |
I would suggest replacing the fuel filters with a Fuel Pro. We've converted all our coaches and school busses to Fuel Pros. You can see the condition of the filter and they are a breeze to change. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 215 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.200 Rating: N/A |
Well it looks like a keeper , 1106 - 95B. First TOW insurance ,then, We will get the starter rebuilt and a case of filters and see what happens. Will these antique injectors or injection pump have hassles with the new ULTRA LOW quality fuel now at the pumps? Any comments on ways to extend the service life of the engine? The 6-71 was 235hp CONT and close to 2900lbs, This little CAT is 1200lbs with "210"hp INTERMITTANT , so it may need as much love as can be done. FF | ||
| L James Jones Jr (Jamo)
Registered Member Username: Jamo Post Number: 31 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.59.119.14  Rating: N/A |
You guys want to see the great big grand daddy of all Cats, check out Ebay auction # 320217114485. Let's see someone jam that puppy in their rig... | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 873 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.5 Rating: N/A |
Add extra fuel conditioner for a couple hundred miles; contact one of the several injector rebuilders on ulsd on that particular fuel pump/injector system on that particular engine series as to any problems they have seen. It needs a starter? Engine turns over by hand ok doesn't it, or did someone try to start it with weak batteries? Keep us posted on how it turns out. When I first got into coaching, a friend had one of those units with a 6-71 in it with a 5 speed manual. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 217 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.254 Rating: N/A |
"Engine turns over by hand ok doesn't it, or did someone try to start it with weak batteries? " The engine turns over by hand just fine but some past imbecile must have had a problem with dieing batterys. So he installed a DC circuit breaker! in the starter lines. Guess a $21 buck Blue Seas rotary switch was too costly. Am working on replacement of all the starter to battery lines . Probably the dead circuit breaker caused an alternator failure too. "When it rains it pours!" Interestingly this daddy to the 3208, HAS LINERS , so I would guess its not a throwaway. FF | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 877 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.5 Rating: N/A |
I think that weak or discharged batteries or poor connections have burned up more starters on diesels than anything else. Your friend is lucky to have you with common sense and experience instead of some idiot helping him. That VL100 has torsilastic suspension, doesn't it? | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 258 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 216.189.161.249 Rating: N/A |
Hi Fred. If the old 6-71 was a two valve per cyinder engine then it was ony 170 HP and that would be at 2100 RPM. The Cat would have way better mid range torque even if the DD had 4 valves. Jim-Bob | ||
| JJ Woden (Jj_woden)
Registered Member Username: Jj_woden Post Number: 39 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 216.220.26.150 Rating: N/A |
Hey Jamo ... To install that Cat from ebay you would have to move the radiator, change motor mounts, and alter the exhaust. Then when you got that done it would only do like 30 MPH. Not sure it would be worth it. You might need to beef up the suspension as well. JJ | ||
| Mark R. Obtinario (Cowlitzcoach)
Registered Member Username: Cowlitzcoach Post Number: 187 Registered: 4-2001 Posted From: 204.245.250.2 Rating: N/A |
The Cat 1160 is the original version of the Cat 3208. IMHO, the 1160 is a much better engine than the 3208, particularly in the fuel pump. The problem with that whole family of engines is they were made to be used and thrown away. In school bus use they usually saw about 150-200K before they died. Biggest problem is the pistons are cast in an oval shape. The theory was as the piston warmed up it would round out. In practice, particularly in school bus use, the engines never warmed up properly. Without warming up properly the pistons never rounded out and would wear the cylinders out in an oval fashion. Later upgrades by Cat made the problem less of a problem but most 1160/3208 engines will smoke like crazy on start up and will never stop smoking if they are worn out. The transmission, if it is an Allison, is most likely an MT653 if it is a 5-speed or an MT643 if it is a 4-speed. Since you say it was put in back in 1972 it may even be the forerunner of the MT600 or HT700 series transmission. If it is the forerunner, it will be the MT60 or the HT70 transmission. There should be a data tag somewhere on the side opposite of the shift linkage. The 1160/3208 didn't need the HT series transmission. If there is no data plate, the MT600 and HT700 transmissions have shift quandrants that have R-N-D-3-2-1. If it is the older MT60/HT70 series transmission the shift quandrant will have R-N-(6-3)-(5-3)-(4-2)-(2-1) or some variation of that. HTH Mark O. Castle Rock, WA | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 281 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.60.233 Rating: N/A |
Fred, are you sure with that engine having sleeves it's not the 534 Ford with Cat injection they had in the 70"s I had Ford dump truck with one before the 3208 came out. Fred after some digging around in my old papers I found out the 1100 series is the 534 Ford engine.The first cat produced version of the 3208 was the 3150 same engine same hp just different numbers 3208 FWIW (Message edited by luvrbus on February 18, 2008) (Message edited by luvrbus on February 18, 2008) | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 219 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.172 Rating: N/A |
Fred, are you sure with that engine having sleeves it's not the 534 Ford with Cat injection they had in the 70 The only Ford 534(the boat anchor) I have ever come across were gas not diesels. I thought GM was the only folks dumb enough to "convert " a gasser into a Diesel, perhaps Ford led in stupidity! This Cat is what is shown in Da Cat Book for 1160-95B and would seem to be the last in the series before the 3208 throwaways. Think the shift sez MT 653 by the layout. "If the old 6-71 was a two valve per cyinder engine then it was ony 170 HP and that would be at 2100 RPM." Perhaps , with small injectors , but our boat 6-71 is book rated at 235hp @ 2100 . 90 injectors and advanced timing , 1944 version. I called an injector service guy , and (naturally) he sugested rebuilding the injectors ($70each) AND the fuel pump ($1200) to help it not leak with the newest crap "fuel". OUCH!!! FF | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 283 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.60.233 Rating: N/A |
FF just passing on info for you the 3145,3150,and the 3160 were 401,477,and 534 Ford engines and were the 1100 series the Oliver tractor used the 3150 before the 3208 went back and looked the 3208 was cat first production on its own If you need parts try http://www.engnetglobal.com FF I can not make the link work but in yahoo type 3150 cat engine and it will get you to web site and you can see all the models leading up to the 3208 e edited by luvrbus on February 19, 2008) (Message edited by luvrbus on February 19, 2008) (Message edited by luvrbus on February 19, 2008) (Message edited by luvrbus on February 19, 2008) (Message edited by luvrbus on February 19, 2008) | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 221 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.133 Rating: N/A |
In planning for running the engine I went to NAPA , and ordered some oil filters. I LOVE fresh oil in anything unknown , and was sorry to learn the filters are the old style. Does CAT or someone else offer a spin on conversion as DD does for their antiques? FF | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 881 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.5 Rating: N/A |
If you have to deal with those cannisters, get some nitrile disposable gloves for the job. It sure eliminates the mess on hands. I use them all the time now. Buy them by a box of 50 pairs for about 11.00 from NAPA- blue in color. | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 223 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 72.89.123.135  Rating: N/A |
Fred must remember when the Detroits in boats had the canister filters mounted with the resevoir pointed up! Hattaras had that setup way back. IMPOSSIBLE to change with out major mess. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 883 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.5 Rating: |
What you do in that case is to borrow your buddy's shop vac and hold the hose to suck up all of the oil running out. Then give it back to him and tell him you think that the filter needs replaced | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 222 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.183 Rating: N/A |
Fred must remember when the Detroits in boats had the canister filters mounted with the resevoir pointed up! Hattaras had that setup way back. IMPOSSIBLE to change with out major mess. You just described the 6-71 in our boat! When I bought it the bilge was REALLY oily. Figured it was 30 years if USN kids being in a hurry and sloppy. NOPE , changing the oil (after a 5 -12 hour run) is hot work and its really hard to catch ALL the oil. My technique is now to drain the damn thing into a catch can (emptied 3 or 4 times) with an absorbant pad under. Only that catches ALL the spills and drips , even being careful. Simple Green has done wonders at clearing up the bilge discharge , probably 15 gal over 5 years. Now the USCG doesn't cordon off the river after pumping the bilge , but it sure isnt "Clean" yet. Even a soap powerwash only helped! ===== Da CAT book we have does not specify the oil requirements of this 1160. I'm just guessing but think 10w -40 should be OK for road trips , and the first change will be 5w-30 to help get any crud out. Anyone have Da CAT book? FF FF | ||
| Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member Username: Doninwa Post Number: 104 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 66.45.165.58  Rating: N/A |
Know what you mean Fred, trying to clean out the bilge of prior owners mess can be a pain. I tried the simple green too. Never did get it clean enough to suit me until I used a pressure washer and a wet-dry vac while I had the engines and trannys out for a repower. Being a 'glass boat made it easier. At least mine was just oil without the diesel.. Don 4107 | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 286 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.57.25 Rating: N/A |
Fred, in my old Ford manual it states C3 motor oil and that is a old API spec |
