| Author | Message | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 240 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.226.202 Rating: N/A |
Been thrashing on google for a while but can't seem to find a HP curve , graph whatever for a DD Series 50. Know it comes in a variety of power outputs , but any will do. Thanks! FF | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 901 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.5  Rating: N/A |
It should be http://www.istanbul-cemberci.com/istanbul/detroit.pdfhere Fred: | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 297 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.56.82 Rating: N/A |
FF I don't know if it will help or not but the 50 series is 890 ft lb at 1200 rpm with hp set at 250-275 1050 ft lbs at 1200 rpm with hp set at 320 | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 902 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.5 Rating: N/A |
Sorry Fred... couldn't get that link to transfer properly. Instead, go to: Detroit Diesel 50 series torque and horsepower charts. Then click on the Istanbul Cemberci link. There are several charts down the page after you get past the 60 series info. | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member Username: Drivingmisslazy Post Number: 2041 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.108.85.14 Rating: N/A |
Here is the correct link. Removed the "here" from the original link. http://www.istanbul-cemberci.com/istanbul/detroit.pdf Richard (Message edited by DrivingMissLazy on March 02, 2008) | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 903 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.5 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Richard. Didn't notice the here when I checked it. | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member Username: Pvcces Post Number: 1172 Registered: 5-2001 Posted From: 65.74.66.116 Rating: N/A |
Fast Fred, here is a link for one curve. It's the lower powered version, but I think it might help: http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/mining/topics/diesel/eamp/images/efig20.gif For what it's worth. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 241 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.232 Rating: N/A |
Thanks folks , don't know how you find it!!But the info is great. Was looking to see what speeds might come out of a ser50 / and 6 speed with roughly .75 and .65 Overdrive. 1400 is 62mpg in 5th , 72 in 6th. So I guess 5th is all she would pull, maybe 6th, with a fair tailwind and flat road, but the fuel mileage would be fantastic!! FF | ||
| Jerry Campbell (Jerrync)
Registered Member Username: Jerrync Post Number: 119 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.176.107.221  Rating: N/A |
FF what rearend are you looking at with that | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 243 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.226.114 Rating: N/A |
"what rearend are you looking at with that ?" I am told the 3.71 was stock with a DD 6-71 . With a 1-1 output the numbers with a 41.4 dia tire look about right 1200 40mph , 1300 44, 1400 46.5, 1500 50, 1600 53.1,1700 56.4, 1800 59.7, 1900 63.1, 2000 66.4 and 2100 a stately 70 mph. A bit of a scream over 1950 rpm/64.7 where the last of the reasonable fuel consumption lies, but in the 1950's the super slabs were not yet built, so I guess the rather low gearing allowed for mucho acceleration with out much shifting. 40-70 ain't bad. Although I was told these antiques had a 10 speed stick.Maybe the stick top gear was an overdrive (or two?) FF | ||
| Jerry Campbell (Jerrync)
Registered Member Username: Jerrync Post Number: 120 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.176.107.221 Rating: N/A |
You need to look at a 4/11 or 12 | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 245 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.47 Rating: N/A |
"You need to look at a 4/11 or 12" Probably will if the 3.71 dies from the ser 50 torque , about doubble. First tho (cheaper) is the attempt to get the CAT running fine. Current plan is to pickel it till Nov , change out just the injectors , adjust the valves and run a bunch of miles (in the local area so the Tow Insurance will bring it to the yard). If it runs a couple of thousand miles with no problem and the black smoke cures with injectors , it should be an OK gamble. Like many coaches the VL doesn't have a bottom fuel tank drain , but its a straight shot into the fuel tank (from EITHER! side)so a bit of fuel polishing will be easy enough. FF | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 909 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.5 Rating: N/A |
Save some greif with the age; pull the tank and thoroughly clean it, solder any new leaks that develop and then start with a nice clean system. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 247 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.176 Rating: N/A |
Save some greif with the age; pull the tank and thoroughly clean it, solder any new leaks that develop and then start with a nice clean system. I know what you're saying , but decades of messing around in boats has taught me not to seek out trouble. With a half century of wear and rust, there will be enough gremlins to chase. FF | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 910 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.5 Rating: N/A |
Man you are getting to be a coward. Go for it!! When you walk through bus conversion pastures, you're bound to step in it occasionally. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 248 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.90 Rating: N/A |
Go for it!! IF the tank leaks (doesn't yet) MY WAY would be a brand new tank from the boat folks, with all the advantages of a PROPERLY designed tank, which I have not yet seen in any coach. To do it right not only should there be a plug for a bottom drain , but the fill setup is more complex with a built in sump and a bailer built into the fill pipe. This is common on boats as far back as the 1930's and was used in WW2 frequently because of drum shipped/&contaminated fuel. FF | ||
| Mark R. Obtinario (Cowlitzcoach)
Registered Member Username: Cowlitzcoach Post Number: 192 Registered: 4-2001 Posted From: 70.6.75.251 Rating: N/A |
Don't be too upset if the engine always smokes. A non-smoking 1160/3208 is the exception not the rule. Mark O. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 251 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.224.151 Rating: N/A |
"Don't be too upset if the engine always smokes. A non-smoking 1160/3208 is the exception not the rule." This is BLACK smoke , not at idle but underway. The local injection guru recommended Stanadine , as best of the Prayers Goops , better (by a little ) than Lucas. His comment was the 10-20 gal of old fuel would burn WAY slower than the 100G of fresh. So the combustion could be going on in the exhaust manifold . Thought the fresh might solve the hassle , but an contemplating a 10G tank of fresh loaded with 2X the std amount of Stanadine to see the effect. Eventually it will run right , or get a head shot and the Ser 50 will replace it. Should help the fuel milage a good deal. Of course for an old hot rod fan the concept of yanking a V8 and sticking in an I4 takes some getting used to! Anyone have a weight for the 50? FF | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 914 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.5 Rating: N/A |
Fred, add several gallons of kerosine to the fuel and see how it runs then instead of so much fuel conditioner. You DID check the air filters, Right? Also, check if the choke is stuck on.  BTW, if you dropped the tank, you could add a sump and a nice drain. I don't think dirty fuel is as much as an issue as it used to be after the FED required that all inground fuel tanks had to be replaced or upgraded a few years back.( I'm not talking about what is in the coach tank at present, of course. ) Also most of those older tanks had a nice tin coating or whatever, and you might not find any internal rusting. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 254 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.27 Rating: N/A |
"You DID check the air filters," First thing , as the coach was born with a 6-71 the filters are the old oil bath style (3cans). A neighbor that had CATS suggested there was a screen where the filtered air fed to the intake manifold, and I thought since '74 it might be clogged, NOPE , no screen. Damn , would have been a great free fix! FF | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 917 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.5 Rating: N/A |
You ever notice that for us bus nuts it's NEVER an easy fix! | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 256 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.44 Rating: N/A |
"You ever notice that for us bus nuts it's NEVER an easy fix!" O'Toole's collerary to Murphy's Law. MURPHY WAS AN OPTIMIST!!! FF | ||
| Tom Yaegle (Tom_5c)
Registered Member Username: Tom_5c Post Number: 5 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 96.233.246.132 Rating: N/A |
Fred, Did you find the 50 curves you needed? I found a couple pages on the 50 and 1 has some curves. I could fax or email if needed. Tom Y | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 257 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.80 Rating: N/A |
Got the HP curves , but still looking for a basic engine weight. Thanks, FF | ||
| Jack Campbell (Blue_goose)
Registered Member Username: Blue_goose Post Number: 64 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 71.101.62.97  Rating: N/A |
2000 lbs. | ||
| Tom Yaegle (Tom_5c)
Registered Member Username: Tom_5c Post Number: 6 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 71.169.112.200 Rating: N/A |
Weight 2230 dry. L 45 inches, W 44.2, H 47.5. 250HP=800lbs torque, 275HP=800-890lbs, 300HP=1000lbs, 320HP=950-1150 lbs. Hp at 2100rpm, Torque at 1200 rpm. The page I have list HP at 250-320. Hope this helps. Tom Y | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 258 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.252 Rating: N/A |
Thanks ,, WOW its 1000 lbs heavier than the 3208 or 1160! But a bit less than the stock 6-71 , so I guess the only extra weight would come from the heavy slushpump , as compared to the 10 speed stick of yesteryear. FF | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 260 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.226.77 Rating: N/A |
FINALLY spoke to an owner that had the bus for 8 years and found out the engine mileage is 155,000. Any comments on this milage in the 1160? Oil pressure is fantastic, (65psi at idle warm, not a DD for sure)but this is a lightweight high speed 210hp INTERMITTANT hp 2600rpm engine. The owner claimed it climbed western hills , ONLY by down shifting to keep the revs over 2000 at all uphills times. Also sezs 10 to 11 mpg over most of his travels. FF | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 920 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.5 Rating: N/A |
Sounds like it might be worth keeping; you could add a turbo with MILD boost- like 5 or 6lbs. Won't hurt the engine at that low of output. BUT' this sounds like you are hoping to put a 50 series in it for the popularity of that engine currently. If he was honest about the fuel mileage with the present engine, 2 more miles to the gallon is going to take a considerable amount of miles to recoup the expense, even with fuel at $4.00 to $4.50 a gallon. That engine may be a throwaway, but your experience in proper operation will probably have it last a long time. By then, the Prevost's will come down enough in price that you can buy one with a 60 series. I know you love them, come on..... admit it. Does that coach have power steering BTW? | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 263 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.135 Rating: N/A |
By then, the Prevost's will come down enough No I prefer mainline coaches , even 40 or 50 years old to scraped tour buses. And as we visit cities the 35ft goes where the UPS guy goes , almost everywhere. The 10 or 10.5 hight is far easier to get thru interesting places than a behemoth that requires a tow car to see anything. We USE the coach , not as a house , but as a touring machine. Prevost , not for me , Not even for FREE! FF | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 264 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.135 Rating: N/A |
PS Yes it does have power steering , but it is the style I prefer. It is the Air o Matic , that helps get the coach in a downtown or camping parking situation, BUT power steering can simply be switched off on the highway for the usual straight line fingertip steering of a real manual steering box. Works for me ! FF |