| Author | Message | ||
| Glenn Vining (Glennvin)
Registered Member Username: Glennvin Post Number: 30 Registered: 10-2002 Posted From: 75.117.16.243 Rating: |
The following link will take you to an article from the Charlotte Observer. http://www.charlotte.com/business/breaking_news/story/523100.html By the way, fuel here in northeast GA is on the rise. When I fueled up Monday, it was $3.599...today it's $3.639. Around the Savannah area, it's $3.899. Glenn Tallulah Falls, GA 1984 MCI-9 www.tlmmusic.com | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 239 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.240.213.34 Rating: N/A |
We have watched the same thing here in NM. BUT....remember, the truckers have "congressional approval" to "surcharge" their fuel costs and therefore....higher prices for consumers. That is why, my opinion, we are suffering at the grocery store, etc etc. For us of the Bus Community,...well, a different story.... and for the most part, at least in our part of the country, we do not have the non taxed diesel. All stations seem to follow Flying J, plus. The local street stations are higher than the Interstate truck stops. Pretty much put the damper on our travels.  FWIW RCB | ||
| Glenn Williams (Glenn)
Registered Member Username: Glenn Post Number: 139 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 216.163.57.205  Rating: N/A |
It's been 3.99 9/10 for several days in Lansing MI on my corner. It's right off of the freeway. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 249 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.207 Rating: N/A |
When the "Eisenhour interstate system was started most trucks had 200 (rated ) hp. Today there needing 500 or 600hp , not for heavier loads , but simply to accelerate a bit faster. For a substantial lower purchase and operating cost , perhaps the truckers will go back to efficient engines , with rational power levels? FF | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 266 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 208.6.60.4 Rating: N/A |
Fred, I'm certain there were NO 80,000 lb trucks in the 50s, no tandems to speak of. And today the trucks roll along at 60-65 with cruise control. In the "good old days" the trucks went down hill 85 to barely get to the top of the next hill at 20, and they down shifted all the way up that hill. Do you REALLY want this kind of yoyo traffic movement all over the country again? If so, then borrow someone's 4104 with it's standard 170hp & go for a trip through even the Eastern mountains. Today's trucks move more freight per gallon of fuel than back then. By the way, that low powered 4104 gets just about the same MPG as your "Sportscar" on flat ground. It just takes a lot longer to get going & get up hills. | ||
| Austin Scott Davis (Zimtok)
Registered Member Username: Zimtok Post Number: 235 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 216.37.73.226 Rating: N/A |
Driving slower helps in fuel savings... Maybe we will see the 55mph come back.... Or maybe Train lines will get back some of the cross country freight back. . | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 134 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.165.176.60  Rating: N/A |
So let me ask what is the deal with the non taxed diesel. Are we allowed to use that??? My understanding was that if it was for use in a vehicle you had to use the taxed. I have topped off my generator tank with non taxed since we have both at my station but if I'm allowed to use the other I will. Tim | ||
| Mark R. Obtinario (Cowlitzcoach)
Registered Member Username: Cowlitzcoach Post Number: 191 Registered: 4-2001 Posted From: 70.6.75.251 Rating: N/A |
You need to be careful about using off-road diesel in an on-road vehicle. It is okay to use off-road fuel in a generator. But it is strictly not okay to run off-road fuel in any on-road application. I doubt you would ever be checked to see if you were running the dyed fuel in your main engine fuel tank. But if you ever do get checked and they find dyed fuel you could become liable for not only several thousands in fines but the non-paid-for road tax as well. The non-paid-for road tax issue may become a real issue as more and more people use alternative nontraditional fuels in their vehicles. Currently, there is no provision for assessing road taxes on vegetable oil because it is not by definition a motor fuel. But as fuel tax revenue goes down you can bet your next tank of fuel the tax and gougers will figure out a way to get alternative non-traditional motor fuels taxed. Mark O. Castle Rock, WA | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 614 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.159  Rating: N/A |
Trucking companies and railroads are making big bucks from diesel "surcharges". I read recently that there was a recent law or regulation to make them reduce this charge but like most political stuff it was probably a smokescreen. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 250 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.224.151 Rating: N/A |
I have a pal over in Kraut land where the difference between heating fuel an un-died diesel is really huge. AND the police regularly stop vehicles and DO check! The technique is very simple. The fuel tank is dropped and a pipe that goes all the way to the far side of the fuel tank is installed as an extension of the std fill pipe,, a real fuel full is placed under the back seat. When the uniform with the stick measures , the depth of the tank is OK (he Has a chart!) and all he sees is the bit of legal fuel in the pipe. The USA was created by tax resisters , but the krouts have been watching and learning! FF | ||
| Nick Badame Refrigeration Co. (Dnick85)
Registered Member Username: Dnick85 Post Number: 206 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 75.199.130.159  Rating: N/A |
Caution.... Maryland and Delaware toll plaza's of I-95 have exhaust sensors in the lanes to detect "Dyed Off Road Diesel" via the exhaust. Same with all toll plaza's of the P.A. Turnpike. I'm not shore how accurate or true this is, but I have been made aware of this by a good friend who is a P.A. State Trooper. Good Luck Nick- | ||
| Douglas Wotring (Tekebird)
Registered Member Username: Tekebird Post Number: 317 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 71.59.75.212 Rating: N/A |
the sniffers do work! they likely have it set so if using an easypass they can come get you after the fact...using the sniffer as probably cause...to check every vehicle in a fleet. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 911 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.5  Rating: N/A |
Fred, I have been following the major trucking magazines for several years. They get much better fuel economy than they ever did with those 200 horsepower engines they used to use. Most fleets now average 7mpg or better, even with more payload and much higher horsepower and torque. Those old rigs used to get around 4mpg. At those low numbers, 3 mpg improvement is quite a bit, and numbers will continue to improve with new technology and idle limiting, small aux generators, etc. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 912 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.5 Rating: N/A |
I wonder how used cooking oil smells to the sensors. Everyone could save a fair amount of coin if they had a seperate tank for their diesel generators and used off road fuel in them. Of course, that would require extra expense for some to set it up. | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 226 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 4.153.53.187  Rating: N/A |
John, I was at a truck stop (getting some diesel for my car) a few weeks ago. A trucker came in and said "OK, 210 gallons of engine fuel - I need to fill up with 'reefer' fuel now." The fuel desk operator just said OK and he went out. I asked the desk operator; apparently, there's no tax on the "reefer" fuel -- whether the tax was knocked off right there or whether he got a receipt and he had to put in for a refund, I'm not sure. This was southern Virginia (just a few miles from the NC line on I-95) -- dunno if it applies other places but it seemed a really "nothing new" thing there and then. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 375 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.75.253 Rating: N/A |
Bruce, Offroad fuel is available in many places, dyed red, and sold with sales tax only. In Calif, they do regular inspections on side roads, trying to catch farmers, etc. using red fuel in their pickups. The Highway Patrol, the local police, and the tax people are all there. No place to turn around after you see them, just like a DUI checkpoint. They stick a clear hose in your fill and suck with their mouth. If it comes up red, its a $10,000 fine the FIRST time, AND they pump it all out on the spot! Just not worth it! G | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 227 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 4.153.53.187 Rating: N/A |
Oh, George, I didn't mean to run dyed fuel in the engine (or put it in the main fuel tank). I gather that the trucker that I overheard had a separate tank for the "reefer fuel" -- he said that he was going to fill the "reefer tank". So, what I meant was that it should be possible to get un-taxed fuel for a *generator-only* tank. I'm pretty sure that the Virginia truck stop didn't dispense red-dyed fuel for the reefer -- if I got it right, it was just the same fuel; the only difference was that it wasn't taxed and it was to be used to run the reefer unit. Sorry if I wasn't clear. John had talked about a separate tank for a generator and off-road fuel for that tank. That's what I was responding to and it seems likely that that would work. | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 135 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 74.244.14.221 Rating: N/A |
Good to hear I can still run it in my generator. On the old Flx I have the origional coach air was powered by a gasoline engine and since that separate tank was still there when they installed the gen in the old AC bay they just plumbed that separate tank to it | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 202 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 76.4.151.87 Rating: N/A |
I was talking to a trucker the other day and he said that they have a hugh white plastic tank that they fill up with off-road and leave it set for a while and it turns out the dye disappears and then they use it in the OTR truck and not problem. TAKE A CHANCE?? naa Gomer | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 228 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 4.88.108.153 Rating: N/A |
Gomer, I've been told that there are some other "chemical markers" besides the red dye. I've also been told that if you leave dyed fuel in a clear container in the sun it will bleach out. But there's no way to get past the other chemical markers. Apparently, they use the dye as the "first indication" then analyze the sample to see what %-age the chemical markers show. It's the lab test report that they use to nail you. (I don't know if this business about the chemical marker is true. I know that if you've been using Marvel Mystery as upper-cylinder lube, the red dye will get you in trouble but the lab test will show it's not *their dye* and they'll drop the charges.) | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 228 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 72.89.123.36  Rating: N/A |
Wasent there a rucus last summer when the tax folks were checking RV buses at a Nascar event? 3.99 a gal on Long Island right now Nshore, 5 cents cheaper south shore. We have a 50 cent tax in NY. The high prices dont seem to be slowing down anybody around here! Everyone wants the big trucks off the roads but they wont let the trains bring the frieght into NY onto the island! Unbelievable. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 915 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.5 Rating: N/A |
You can tell if you are using dyed fuel by looking at the color of the soot in the tailpipe. It definately looks a little different shade. Also the red dye can weep and stain around fittings and around the fuel cap and pipe. Here, if it is suspect, a sample is taken and sent in for testing. | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member Username: Pvcces Post Number: 1174 Registered: 5-2001 Posted From: 65.74.66.116 Rating: N/A |
John, regarding the improved fuel mileage that trucks get now compared to older equipment, I remember some of my over the road days in the summer of 1968. I was working on a NY rig as a helper, and we were running a cabover furniture setup. With a single drive axle and a 35 foot trailer, running 50,000 lbs., we drove against the governor at 73 mph on the freeway and got 7 mpg. Crossing Wyoming, we beat a 50 mph average, so the performance wasn't too bad. This was with a 220 Cummins and 10 speed Road Ranger. The trailer was 12' 6" tall and we didn't have any fairing. While the old Cummins black smoked some, we didn't have a bit of trouble with it, and it was a '59. There weren't any spring brakes, either, just a hand brake. Bad, if you parked on a slope and didn't chock the wheels. For what it's worth. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1215 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.66.18.173  Rating: N/A |
The grizzled trucking expert , rest his soul, I can't remember his name, highly respected, he wrote in the trade mags long ago, and further away... Back when 400 HP was big power, he wrote it up, science, engineering and some real world examples included, an 80 000 lb tractor trailer only really needs about 280 HP for an acceptable balance between some power, gradeability and economy. The use of any greater power is just wasting fuel on accelerating the truck faster, or topping the hill sooner. If you give a driver horsepower...like the drunk with a bottle...he's going to dip into it. Don't give him the power, he can't empty the fuel tank. A former test driver for Caterpillar is out there religiously turning 12-13 mpg with a little Cat in his rig. Having had the benefit of watching the test equipment, he knows just how to squeeze the pedal under different terrain. Slow acceleration is a big key to fuel economy. Who buys these big motors? A deregulated trucking industry populated with fools with small cajones who think they are supposed to, and the rest who are pressured to keep up with the flawed perceptions in order to keep their drivers from quitting. Trucking smart is about big numbers in the bank account, not on the rating plate for the motor, the speed up the mountain, or the shininess of the chrome... Busnuts, on the other hand, well, we aren't doing enough miles for it to matter, and we're paying for the smiles, so... Run with the big dogs, or stay on the porch? As always, your choice! happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 253 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.27 Rating: N/A |
" Most fleets now average 7mpg or better, even with more payload and much higher horsepower and torque." I read the same magazines and they usually claim the air police crap costs 15% to 20% , just as it does in cars. (Although the E85 autos easily get 30% worse fuel economy) Since the politicos cannot stand the thought of less tax extortion , why not let all the vehiches run mandate free till fuel is back to under $1.00? Sure would help the economy! The type of CHANGE that makes sense! FF | ||
| William D. Watkins (Sivrtnge2)
Registered Member Username: Sivrtnge2 Post Number: 183 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 76.97.116.103 Rating: |
I sat here and took it long enough. I am a Owner Operator. I haul for the military. 1st thing first, they drastically reduced our fuel surcharge down to approximately 6%. So if I dont charge enough to clear a profit then I would be on one of the chapters with thousands of other truckers out there. 2nd, yes truckers are supposed to charge a fuel surcharge that is regulated like everything else by the federal government. If i'm not mistaken, it's about 23.5%. What most of you do not realize is,(and I am talking about the owner op. because we are the ones taking the greatest hits)most of the companies and brokers are taking the fuel surcharge away from the load before issuing the load to the o/op and telling them that the fuel surcharge is included in the rate. The company and broker agents are the ones making out like bandits. It is just a hidden loop hole. As far as big horsepower and wasting fuel, I pull anywhere from 80k to 110k lbs. I have a 550HP engine and need every bit of it to pull some of the hills at 20 to 30 mph. Sometmes I get the "social finger" just for holding up the guy that wanted to do 80mph cause he can. Another thing that some of you might not know is that every year the EPA regulate and mandate tougher emissions, the engine makers meet and sometime exceed these standards by increasing the horsepower on the engine then choking the $h*t out of them so you get a 650 or 700 HP engine that gets 4.3 to 5.4 mpg. I'm not saying that "WE" don't get out there and put our "foot to the front bumper" every once in a while, but who don't??? Now as for as the fuel tax are concerned. For those of you that do not realize this, when you go to a "truck stop" to buy you fuel you are paying a fuel tax as well as a "HRUT" in several states across this great country of ours. However, if you get it at a rv, or auto pump, you are most likely to pay just the fuel tax at the pump. I know a lot of rvers and buses pump fuel at the Flying J travel plazas. They complain about the rv pumps are too slow so they use the truck pumps. BIG MISTAKE says your wallets!!! Just look around and try to get fuel at the places that offer diesel for autos and rvs. Check the price on the pumps and look at the stickers that tell you what all you are paying for at that particular pump. -- BILL | ||
| Mitch Wright (Gyrocrasher)
Registered Member Username: Gyrocrasher Post Number: 8 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 68.102.119.87 Rating: N/A |
Bill, I too am an o/o. I have heard of companys taking the fuel surcharge. I suspect the co. I am leased to was. (now I'm getting 22-25%) I've also heard that it's illegal for them to do that. Do you know if that's so? Mitch | ||
| William D. Watkins (Sivrtnge2)
Registered Member Username: Sivrtnge2 Post Number: 185 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 76.97.116.103 Rating: N/A |
Yes it is illegal however, proving it is the problem. When you talk to the paying party, Some will give you details on what they actually paid...they just won't give you a hard copy. Other say they don't want to get involved. Then you have a select few that will tell you that they just won't use the carrier anymore. I have noticed O.O.I.D.A. have taken carriers to court on this issue and has won a few cases!!! -- BILL | ||
| JR Lynch (Njt5047)
Registered Member Username: Njt5047 Post Number: 223 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.132.233.230 Rating: N/A |
There was a ruckus at Lowes Motor Speedway in Charlotte, NC this fall when the tax guys were checking all of the infield Motorhomes for dyed fuel. They caught a few motorhome owners...but the ruckus was about a Mercedes sedan with a big WVO sign in the rear window. They burned his butt for making his own fuel. They were not checking cars, but saw a crowd gathered around the Mecedes and figured out what the interest was. The owner ended up paying several hundred dollars in fines. Most states have laws stating blenders must report and pay taxes on homemade fuel. Now the guys with the motorhomes probably paid thousands of dollar in penalties. They will ruin your life if they catch you using non-taxed fuel in the road engine. They'll burn you if there is transfer capability between the genset and main tanks. Using non-taxed fuel in a genset is fine....but don't even think about running in your main engine. They do check RVs at large gatherings. As fuel use and associated road taxes drop due to high fuel costs (as in California), the feds will find new and better ways of identifying tax avoiding schemes...WVO, homemade bio, and non-taxed fuels. They are good at what they do. JR | ||
| William D. Watkins (Sivrtnge2)
Registered Member Username: Sivrtnge2 Post Number: 186 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 76.97.116.103 Rating: N/A |
There is an exception to the rule!!! If the Commander in Chief give the ok then "ok". I think it was back in 04 or 05, Bush authorized the use of off road diesel to be used in on highway vehicles for several months. All the off road fuel had to be used by a certain date...then the standard law was re-inforced. This was the same year the U.S. oil reserves was tapped into to offset the rising fuel costs. -- BILL | ||
| Laryn Christley (Barn_owl)
Registered Member Username: Barn_owl Post Number: 180 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 70.110.13.203  Rating: N/A |
It has been several years now but my brother used to own a boat. He would fill the boat at a regular gas station to avoid the high cost of fuel at the marinas. He would then turn in his gas receipts for a road tax reimbursement. I would think you could do the same for the generator. This is in Virginia. |
