| Author |
Message |
Johnny (63.159.188.95)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 3:01 am: | |
A few people have referred to a Webasto. What exactly is it?
I'm sure I'd know one if I saw it--maybe under a different name? |
Jerry (205.188.193.36)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 9:02 am: | |
Webasto: One of several brands of diesel fired hydronic heater -- heats water -- usually anti-freeze solution which is then pumped to different places to heat things --- bus interior, domestic hot water heating, engine preheat |
Johnny (63.159.184.26)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 1:18 pm: | |
OK--heard of that (generally just referred to as a "diesel-filed heater"). That won't work for me. |
Stephen Fessenden (Sffess) (63.27.88.10)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 6:43 pm: | |
Johnny, if you need a gasoline fired heater, you might be happy with an Swingfire Turboheater by Espar. You can get them surplus, rebuilt for NATO for $200 or less. They start on 24 volts but run without electricity. Could probably be easily modified for 12 volts or just use a 12 to 24 volt converter to start it. They are efficient and proven. No complex circuit boards. Complete isolation of exhaust and heated air.
Check Ebay or http://stores.andale.com/mecimpex which also has a Toronto branch under a different web address.
or
Chris Mcphee
38 Pembroke Rd.
Wallingford, VT 05773
802-446-2529
CMCLNSAY90@aol.com
Both are Mercedes UNIMOG importers.
Chris will talk to you to help you decide if it is what you want. A few dollars more but someone to talk to is well worth it. |
Johnny (63.159.193.43)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 1:12 am: | |
Hmmmm. I was planning to use either radiant or catalytic propane heaters. How efficient are the gasoline-fired heaters? |
FAST FRED (63.208.85.77)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 5:27 am: | |
Efficent is a term that assumes that what you want to use very little of is give.
On a coach what you need to save varies.
Propane is efficent as the 42000btu unit only costs $400 or so, there OK in propane use but not great in electric use.
Oil fired furnaces are much more frugal on fuel , but a complete instalation can cost $3000 to $ 6000 and use loads of electric and are complex to install .
Wood fireplaces are cheap to run , but small sizes have difficulty holding enough fuel to run all night.
What does efficent mean for your plans?
FAST FRED |
Scott Whitney (24.205.230.63)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 11:55 am: | |
I guess efficiency also depends on where you are. Unless you own the land to harvest your own wood (or have permission to gather on someone else's land), even wood can be very expensive in CA. . .
Propane is my choice for heat: One standard 35,000 BTU RV furnace, one vented catalytic heater and (possibly, if I can find space) one old RV furnace w/o blower.
If I had a highway coach with the bay space and the budget, no question I'd have a diesel fired heater with all the gadetry (domestic water, engine preheat, etc.).
Scott |
Johnny (63.159.197.197)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 12:28 pm: | |
Fast Fred: What are you trying to say? This makes no sense:
"Efficent is a term that assumes that what you want to use very little of is give."
By efficient, I mean "does it burn a huge amount of fuel while running?" |
Scott Whitney (24.205.230.63)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 2:17 pm: | |
I think FF suffered Phat Phingers when he wrote that sentence. I think he meant, "Efficent is a term that assumes that what you want to use [a minimum] of is a given." But I understand (I think) his point. And I agree.
Efficiency in regards to what? A heater will burn all of the fuel you give it. What do you consider a 'huge' amount? You have to look at how much heat is produced by burning a certain amount of a given fuel. So are you talking about the efficiency of the various fuels? i.e. heat produced per pound? or heat produced per gallon? or heat produced per dollar spent? Of course the heater itself has some waste heat going in exhaust. So BTU consumed is not the same as BTU produced in usable heat. Throw into the mix that some heaters will also consume electricty to move the air, and it starts to get a bit complex.
So to analyse the problem, you need to first examine the efficiency of the fuel based (presumably) on weight. Then given your fuel, you can analyse the efficiency of a heater based on waste exhaust heat and electricity used.
So I would rephrase FF's statement something like this:
"Efficent is a term that can only be determined when you have identified what you to produce (in this case usable heat) and what other variable(s) for which you wish to minimize consumption."
In other words, it must be identified as to being efficient at what, otherwise an assumption must be made.
For example, personally, I think the idea of running a 20Kw diesel generator to create electricity to power a resistance electrical heater is a very innefficient use of fuel. I'd rather combust some propane and covert its energy to heat directly. But, I am sure, some people differ in their view of what is efficient for THEIR needs as opposed to MY needs.
Scott |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (64.114.233.138)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 11:54 pm: | |
There's efficiency and there's effectiveness.
For example, if a heater uses 100,000 btu in fuel, but 35,000 btu goes up the flue, then it is 65 percent efficient.
If an electric heater uses 5000 btu of fuel and the only lost energy is in the outside power wires, that's 98 or 99 percent efficient.
If you are in a cold area and your coach needs 35,000 btu delivered into the coach, you'll have a choice; seven 1,500 watt 5000 btu electric heaters or one propane furnace of 35,000 btu.
The electric heaters are more efficient if you're on shore power but if you have to run an 8 kw generator to get enough power, and the generator throws away 2/3 or its energy making power, then its not very effective.
Then the propane starts to look really attractive. Add to that what happens if you want to do some serious boondocking on batteries and you're going to burn propane and not look back.
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 |
FAST FRED (63.215.234.25)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 5:25 am: | |
My point was that fuel consumption is only ONE thing to conserve.
Eg; a coach with diesel heater and 100 gal tank could boondock for a long time .
IF it didn't run out of batteries to get the diesel heater firing , and circulating into the coach.
Conserve which?
Fuel , Electric, Space , Overall Cost , cont maintanance ?
What is being conserved ? what is in short supply , that Does Efficent mean to this fellows use?
To know what an Efficent heat system is , we need to know which is in short supply.
I have no need beyond 48 hours of heat ,( with no outside power no gen set) so the big propane 8A draw is OK for my coach.
I do have an unvented unit also , to Keep Alive the water system in freezing weather , but only if I am not aboard .
This is the efficent use of off the shelf stuff , for my needs .
The question is What does he need as a design goal ,
Realizing what is in short supply becomes eazy , after you have a design goal ,
Knowing what will be in short supply then lets you know what Efficency Means.
FAST FRED |
Johnny (63.159.192.236)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 18, 2002 - 1:43 am: | |
I like boondocking, so whatever I get has to be easy on the batteries, not suck my propane/gas tank dry in 3 days in the winter, & not take up half the floor space (as always, this is a problem in my skoolie). I'm still leaning towards propane-fired heaters, either catalytic or radiant, since neither uses electricity.
That's why I don't want RV-type hot-air heat. |
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