| Author | Message | ||
| chris risley (New2bus) (64.105.34.210)
Rating: N/A |
I apologize if this is a duplicate post. My first post didn't show up (rookie mistake, no doubt). My experience driving RV's from 21' to 40' makes me want to find a 28' to 30' bus to convert. We don't need much living space and my driving skills are better at 30' than at 40'. On the other hand with a short bus I may be losing all the driving and ride benefits I hoped to get by switching from an RV to a bus. I see plenty of short airporters and touring buses available. Are there any short buses that drive and ride well? Who made them? Advice, comments, and especially warnings welcome! | ||
| Ross Carlisle (Ross) (216.107.195.111)
Rating: N/A |
By going short, you pass up the major benefit of going to a bus....The size. I'm doing a 40' MCI. So far we have just layed out the floor plan with tape and I already wish I had 5 more feet. Ross | ||
| chris risley (New2bus) (64.105.34.210)
Rating: N/A |
Size is both a benefit and liability. We know we can get what we want in 30ft because we've done in it RV's. So we'd rather have the manueverability of a short coach.....unless the driveability, ride, or mechanical robustness is compromised by the shorter wheelbase. Thanks | ||
| Ian Giffin (Admin) (64.228.55.52)
Rating: N/A |
Hi Chris, Good news, bad news... There has been a discussion recently about the Orion model of bus. Use the "Keyword Search" in the left menu to read some more about these great buses. Orion made a 30' transit model which looks, feels and rides "buslike". They also made a model II (as in Orion II) which was a LFS model. It was 24'. Around the "shop", we often said it would make a great camper. That's the good news. The bad news is that it may be extremely difficult to find a decent one in terms of salvagability (I think I may have just made up a new word there!). The common thought is that most are rust buckets and may not be worth the effort. That said, and as stated correctly above, 40 feet gives you one HUGE advantage - space. Don't let driving them defeat you. Given some practice behind the wheel, coupled with a professionally delivered defensive driving course, you'll soon be tootling around town like a veteran. Good luck in your choice. Please do come back and let us all know what you decide upon. Ian www.busnut.com | ||
| Johnny (63.159.197.122)
Rating: N/A |
I've seen 35' GMC/Grummans (transits, not coaches), too. They have Detroit diesels (6-71's, I think), Alison slushboxes, 22.5" wheels, air-operated brakes, doors, & wipers, & were used by NYC (and probably others) as city buses. Currently, Foxwoods has several of them--all late 70's models. A warning, though: they're VERY underpowered, & governed at ~57MPH. | ||
| Bruce Wayne (64.12.102.171)
Rating: N/A |
I felt that a short bus would be plenty for me--a single guy. I got a 25 foot 1954 Flxible that was bought new by the Pikes Peak Automobile Company. | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (64.114.233.16)
Rating: N/A |
Hi Chris, We have some 30 foot Gilligs running around our town that are a real coach and our doing a fine job. However, these have a much shorter wheelbase than the 35 foot GMs. When I was riding similar coaches in Anacortes, WA, I noticed that they have considerably more porpoise effect going through dips. That might get old. Then again, it might be curable with stiff shocks. The performance of these units seemed to be good, and I'm sure that they did 60 mph. With any shorter coach, I think that you will lose out big time on storage space. We've got 28" bays and the buffalo goes right up to something like 42". That space is wonderful to have. FWIW Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 | ||
| jmaxwell (66.42.92.55) Rating: N/A |
Gillig and RTS both put out 30' models with air brakes, air ride, and all the other features of their bigger brothers, except floor space. Also, Barth built a lot of transits in 28' & 32' with big bus construction and features and I think they made them into the mid 90's. Many of these smaller transits came equipped with Cummins L-10 engines. | ||
| chris risley (New2bus) (64.105.34.210)
Rating: N/A |
I don't think I'd be interested in a short coach if it couldn't do 70 mph easily and comfortably. Does that eliminate all transits? Thanks | ||
| RJ Long (24.127.8.58) Rating: N/A |
Chris - Most, but not all, transit properties order their coaches set up for decent 0 - 30 mph, with little regard for highway operations or top speed. Remember, 99% of a transit's work is city block to city block. They are not as concerned with storage space or ride comfort compared to the highway/tour coach operator. As an example, the four-air-bag-suspended Gillig Phantom transit bus is notorious for producing worker's comp claims for back injuries - or at least they were at the transit property I worked for. . . They will porpoise enough to literally throw the driver out of his seat under certain conditions, or create a severe extension/compression of the back when seatbelted. The little shuttles made by ElDorado and National that you see working the airports for Hertz, Avis, etc., are considered basically "throw-away" buses: very inexpensively constructed and designed to be replaced about every 5 - 7 years, also set up for low-speed operation. Highly suggest that you pick up a copy of Larry Plachno's book "Beginners Guide to Converted Coaches" (www.busmag.com). Larry raises several issues that newbies often overlook, and helps with the thought processes necessary to make an informed shell choice. Another thought: Find yourself a nice GMC 4104, 4106, or an MCI MC-5 series, that's already converted, and then just make minor changes to suit your needs. These 35' coaches are very maneurverable, probably more so than most 30 foot S&S rigs. The '06 and MC-5 will easily run 70 mph, the '04 is much happier at 65, but gets better fuel mileage (a moot point, actually.) This is also a good way to find out if a bus conversion is really what you want. . . HTH, RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| FAST FRED (63.215.228.247) Rating: N/A |
A bus is not a bus , all the time. For the best conversion you want a coach that has a 3,000,000 mile intergal construction , not a frame on chasis 500,000 mile design life. You want an air ride , not steel springs. You want bays to store stuff , although quickie conversions fill the bays with RV equippment , it only takes a bit longer to engineer an empty bay setup , and have the space for TOYS! Most coaches are fine for safety , can be rolled over ect, but so can some of the good early RV's that were made by Skoolie co's.SUPERIOR for example. The room you require is a very personal choice , the less you have , the less you have to buy , install, store , manufacture, and maintain. The 30ft size ( I had a Wanderlodge) is a GREAT street fighter. Will go down & back any place the UPS truck can go. No town or side road or campgrounds is a big pain. With my 35 with lots of work , and 5 years of practice , I can go ALMOST as many places as the old 30 , even though the wheelbase is much longer. I would never consider having a 40 and using it for camping, only as a road house. Even with the best towing insurance in the world , the 40'S dont have a hinge in the middle so are very unsuitable for tiny towns, old towns , or unknown dirt roads . 40's also have great difficulty in hilly areas where side roads join , frequently there is a sufficent difference that the engine & aft overhang will scrape , or you can get humped where the coach hangs up in the center,requiring a tow to move. And perhaps a 5 mile narrow road to back up. 40's Great for camp K-mart , poor for State Parks. Look at the layouts for a 24 ft motorhome , and stick it very comfortably in a 30 ft shell & have a ball! FAST FRED | ||
| Paul Tillmann (209.23.54.79)
Rating: N/A |
I just purchased a MCI MC-5C (35') for conversion (it still has the bus seats in it) and I have been driving it around a bit. This bus rides like a dream, runs 70 mph with no problem, has enough storage bays (2) for tanks and storage and is no problem on the narrow back country roads. It's not as intimidating to drive as my 40' transit bus is on these narrow back roads. I live in New York and the village and city streets around here are quite small and tight, not like the cities west of the Mississippi where everything is big. My suggestion would be to opt for a 35' GMC or MCI 3,000,000 mile design life (as FF says) coach for conversion. I think you will find you can handle a 35 footer just as easily as a 30 footer and it will last forever. | ||
| slc (198.29.191.147) Rating: N/A |
Is that true FF. Your comments are the first I have read about the 40' footer bus being unsuitable for camping or driving in towns and on hills. Can this be, after all this time, the 40 footer is now a bad choice for camping other than Camp WallMart? How about you other guys out there, do you have difficulties in campgrounds or hills? It almost seems like the bus conversion may not be the best choice if FF is correct about all its now exposed faults when the ever looming threats of environmental controls and forced clean air add-ons expenses proposed to be given to converters. It almost sounds like the 40 footer should have retired and just lied down and crushed if it can't be camped in. Maybe I am just taken back with the recent occurances and perhaps some of the fire has gone out on my own 40 foot conversion but FF makes it sound like a 40 footer was a big mistake, BAD thing to say to anyone in such a hobbie were cost is high and so is the time that is sacraficed to complete that dream. I am VERY MUCH INTERESTED in what others have experienced in travel and camping in THEIR 40foot conversion. If FF is right, maybe its time to put her to rest! slc | ||
| chris risley (New2bus) (64.105.34.210)
Rating: N/A |
slc, I'm new to this board but I've read a lot in the archives and I can already say with confidence that FF prefers to state his views clearly and without moderation. While there may be others with different views he leaves it to them to speak up for themselves and doesn't try to make their arguments for them. So, he's left us no doubt that, for him, 35ft is the optimal solution. I'm sure we'll hear from some 40ft advocates as well. | ||
| chris risley (New2bus) (64.105.34.210)
Rating: N/A |
So, do we think the porpoise problem is inherent in short buses or is it a product of the "rail and chasis" design specs? For example, could you take a full sized coach and shorten it 10 ft and still get a nice (but shorter) coach? I'd imagine that a true diesel pusher wouldn't work because the weight behind the rear axle wouldn't be balanced by the extra 10ft of leverage. I might do better shortening a tag axle model or perhaps a mid-engine coach that wouldn't suffer from the tail loading effect? thanks Chris | ||
| Ace (24.28.44.126) Rating: N/A |
SLC, I wouldn't put much into what some have to say about 35 footers are best for camping! I think the mfgr's know what is best not only for transporting people but for the after sale market as well! If you look thru any archive or magazine you will plainly see that the number of 40 footers are very plentiful! FF is just one opinion. There are many others too, but don't let one guys opinion scare you away from what you feel is best suited for your needs! A f40 foot bus that has a tag axle makes for a very smooth ride and like the 01 Eagle, the tag bieng in the back, makes for turning tight coners really easy! The GM 40 foot 4905 rides like a dream but it only has 1 rear axle! Look at alot of your newer Prevost. They are longer than 35 feet and they too have gone back to putting the tag axle in the back of the drive, on some models, for the very reason of ease of manueverability! Keep the faith dude and don't listen to just one ole' mans opinion on how, why or what! If you have a 40 foot bus, enjoy it! It's a heck of alot more than some have as they only wish thiers was 5 feet longer!  Ace | ||
| Don KS/TX (64.24.4.195)
Rating: N/A |
Well, I have had both, and I prefer the 40 ft. I have a 4905 GMC, 27 ft wheelbase, air suspension, power steering. Nothing has a greater turning radius I think. I have never encountered the things that FF fears, never had a campground I could not get around in or into the the spaces. Never found a turn I could not make, never backed up to get out of somewhere, and never high centered it. There are times I wish I had my friends 01 Eagle, they DO turn shorter, but I turn sharp for a few minutes some days, and ride on those airbags on a long wheelbase without the Eagle roll ride for hours at a time. The people that advocate 35 ft buses mostly use them as a big station wagon, the 40 foot crowd spends some real time on the highway and living in their coaches. For the "day tripper" type, I prefer the 35 foot also. | ||
| Scott P. (64.12.102.177) Rating: N/A |
I've got a 36' 102" wide Monaco pusher, but have my eye on a 40' MCI-9. That extra 4 feet is all between the axles, which I fear will make it tough in some of the tighter campgrounds. But the -9 is only 96" wide, so I'm thinking the 6" narrower will help. For what it's worth, I didn't really think I needed a 36 footer when I bought this one, really wanted a 32'. The 36' has never been a problem, but if anything, the 102" seems to be a bit much. Surprizing how much difference that 6 inches makes. With a bus, I can't afford anything 102", so that's no longer a problem. But now that 36' is no problem, I'm ready for a 40 footer. IMHO you will be a bit intimidated in some campgrounds regardless of which size you have, so might as well have the big boy. Besides, that's what back-up cameras are for! | ||
| Ross Carlisle (Ross) (216.107.197.52)
Rating: N/A |
My first drive in my my MCI9 was all narrow country back roads. I did not find it intimidating at all. I was rather surprised at how easy it was to handle in tight spots. The place I'm doing the conversion is 2 miles down a hilly dirt road. No problems at all. I would not be afraid to take this bus into any campground. I would probably call ahead and I would avoid dirt roads unless I knew them. Ross | ||
| Bobbo MC-9 (Bobbo) (66.214.52.195)
Rating: N/A |
Hi SLC, My wife and I bought a 1980 MCI MC-9 (40' foot) on March 22,02 (for our family of 6). Two days later I had the seats removed and some cheap carpet on the floor. On March 28,02 we left our house in Apple Valley, CA on our way to Missouri, Ohio & Alabama. To make a long story short the whole time were on the road we never stayed at a K-Mart or any other store parking lot. We mostly stayed at KOA's which I found easy to maneuver in and out of. After driving the coach for a little bit over 5,000 miles I can't complain or find problems with finding a camping ground or maneuving the bus. I can't imagine going with anything smaller. Its been a great investment and we haven't even converted it yet. Bobbo MC-9 | ||
| MC - Iv (24.83.235.106)
Rating: N/A |
My wife and I also bought a MC-9 this year. My previous driving experience was limited to a 31 ft. motorhome. However, driving the MC-9 was remarkably easy and comfortable. Our drive home from where we bought the bus included towing our car behind. Since then we take the bus everywhere just to practice driving.(shopping, McDonald's etc.)Lots of room for groceries. I think that as long as you are aware of the turning ability of the coach and plan accordingly when you drive, you can go almost anywhere. Iv. | ||
| FAST FRED (63.215.235.108) Rating: N/A |
Commercial Camp grounds have every reason to CHANGE the place to suit the market.So are usually an easy choice. As folks wander thru in 40' Winnibuggies and crash into trees or branches , the management quickly gets out the bulldozer , and chainsaw, and stays in business. State or Provincal parks are a whole different ballgame , indifferent employees , budgeting hassles , ect keep most places as they were when built. Which was when a 30ft trailer 10ft high was the lap of luxury. There is NO incentive for a tiny town up in the Catskill Mountains (or anywhere else) to rip apart the town to have large vehicles get down the streets , and in MANY old small towns great caution is required. I have found this an Canada also. Rolling down the super slab and pulling into comercial campgrounds in not a problem , even with a 45' and boathouse / car carrier behind. Your "camping" will be in a flat treeless field , with a Power Post and water. Enjoy! For folks that want more than a parking lot , the undeveloped back roads areas await, as do the city , county and state parks or Federal lands. Driving down a single lane dirt road is a snap , the hassle comes when it ends , and there is NO turnaround. We usually break our travels into two needs. As Snowbirds we need that big empty bay station waggon to carry the usual pile of "stuff" back & forth . ( Dont ask!) But on vacation we figure a theme and hit the road for a month , from either home. This summer we will probably go to see the Trent Severn canal system in Canada . Have every expectation of poor macadam roads , broken pavement , and trucks passing at 100Klicks . Have no idea how the area is for camping , but the smaller the coach is , the easier it is to dig out the Pretty Places. We do tow a boat , but it can be manhandled should an about face be required on one of Canadas skinny gravel "roads". What ever suits your needs makes the best conversion. Dont fear the search for the pretty spots , thats how adventures get started! FAST FRED | ||
| Ace (24.28.44.126) Rating: N/A |
He is sooo wrong when he makes statements like this! >Your "camping" will be in a flat treeless field , with a Power Post and water. Enjoy!< I have seen 40 foot busses in places you would think the trees grew around them when they camped! If the only thing one thinks is that a 35 foot bus is so much better to manuever than a 40 or 45 foot bus, than it tells me he just plain can't drive especially when he speaks of :having to dig out of places! Who in their right mine would purposely go someplace with a $100k conversion and not know exactly where it was he was going, only to be dead ended (no place to turn around) and maybe have to "dig out"? Only guys with cheap imitation conversions that don't have much invested would even try a stunt like this. Might be a good reason why they are so down on using parks. Too embarrased of what they are driving! Do yourself a favor and listen to the majority of bus owners. Have fun wherever you go! Ace | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (66.190.119.82)
Rating: N/A |
I also think you have to consider the source very carefully. Over the past several years, I have read thousands of posts (and made a few myself). Of all the posts on the many boards that I generally monitor, FF is the only one that I recall that is down on everything regarding 40 footers and many other subjects. This is of course his privilege to only want to go to the small city and/or county parks and or to go to such primitive spots that you need a 4WD vehicle to get there. I personally have camped in hundreds of campgrounds from Maine to California and all places in between, and I assure you that I have been in MANY beautiful campgrounds, completely surrounded by trees. EVERY campground I have been in has had at least 30 amp service available, and most have at least a few 50 amp spaces. In conclusion, DO NOT be mis-lead by the opinion of only one person out of the thousands that are on the various boards. Just consider the source, take his opinion in consideration with all the other opinions and make up your own mind. BTW, this is in no way meant to put FF down or to belittle his opinions. In my opinion, He has some good advice, some mediocre advice, some poor advice and some incorrect advice about various subjects. He is entitled to his opinions and is generally a valuable contributor to the various boards. Richard | ||
| john wood (206.252.234.160)
Rating: N/A |
The wonderful thing about FF's posts are that he makes you (me) THINK about what you want and why you want it. Sometimes it seems that you can hear the choir singing on this board till FF gets in there with his non-musical voice and breaks up the hypnotic effect of so much harmony. This is one of the best places on the web or anywhere else to find out about coach conversions specifically, and camping/ traveling in general, and all in a gentlemanly manner unlike some other sites I can think of. Well done all, (including FF) I thank you. jw | ||
| FAST FRED (63.208.85.243) Rating: N/A |
Life style covers a broad area, so a first question is always "Why a Bus?" I have my GM 4106 as it is a huge amount of fun to DRIVE! Sure it holds a lot , sure it gets great mileage , I even enjoy the "Pure Bus" look , (although basement air is more time to install), but the reason for having a light weight Monocoque, std shift , no power steering coach , is still the same ,, ITS GREAT FUN TO DRIVE!!! I have driven most of the other coaches ( a buddy has a bus charter co) and know what a new Prevost drives like. Puts me to sleep.I'd rather watch TV. For the fly boys in the group , would you rather go up for fun in a DC 3 or an Albatros, or a 777? Sure if you need a quick trip to Paris the choice would be the 777, but for a sunny afternoon , most would hop into the Dakota , or shoot splash and dash in the Albatros in a heart beat!! The 40 ft coaches are FINE , for those that need what they have to offer, room to take your house on the road.There even better with 4 slideouts. Thats not MY need , and except for some fulltimers , possably not the need of many folks at all. SURE you can get a 40 into many fine comercial campsites, and the extra room makes the conversion much simpler to create. The big problem (for me) is NONE of the 40's I have driven (except the single rear axle 40ft GM ) was any fun at all! Fun driving IS expensive as many of the old steering parts will need replacing , and everything has to get back to first class condition. Brakes and wheels/tires too. What YOU get out of this hobby is your choice. ALL are valid choices. Mine is FUN DRIVING! And I especially enjoy the Pretty Places , unspoiled by NOISE. FAST FRED | ||
| RJ Long (24.127.8.58) Rating: N/A |
This has become a very entertaining thread! 8^) I agree w/ FF that the 4106 is a ball to DRIVE, which is why it's affectionately known as the sports car of buses. And the 40-ft 4905s are absolute sweethearts - a great compromise between the sports car 4106s and the "isolate you from everything" Prevosts. Somewhere inbetween are the Eagles, with their unique ride characteristics of the Torsilastic suspension. And I don't mean unique as bad, not by any stretch of the imagination, it's just different than air. I've seen everything from VW buses to 45' rigs in many of the campgrounds out here on the West Coast, but there are some parks that still restrict vehicle length due to physical layouts - and not just buses, but also fifth-wheels and travel trailers. (I know of one on the CA coast that restricts anything over 27 ft!) As Richard has said, not all are like Wal-Mart lots, many are in some very beautiful wooded areas. Then again, there are also a bunch of the KOA - type commercial sites set up more for the "here today, gone to Maui" types. But to get back to Chris's question about a short coach porpoising, it is caused by a combination of weight hung out behind the rear axle and the rear axle suspension's design. If air suspended, with four air bags on EACH axle, there will be very little porpoising. But if it's a Nu-Way like air suspension, with only four bellows for the entire coach, and trailing arm rear, (with the pivot ahead of the axle and the air bag behind), then it's going to porpoise like a teeter-totter with an off-set fulcrum point. Sort of like when we were kids, and one kid weight 65 lbs and the other 110 - the lighter of the two got bounced around a lot more. If you really feel that a 30 ft coach is right for you, and you've got the gumption, then I'd suggest you look for a Eagle Model 10 Suburban (the rare two-axle model), pull the exterior skins off, hack 10 feet out of it by removing two baggage bins, then put it all back together. That would give you a two-axle Torsilastic-suspended highway coach, with a nice ride and some basement space. Or just buy a used Hertz shuttle bus. . . Tough call, but it's YOUR call. . . RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| Ace (24.28.44.126) Rating: N/A |
FF's quote first post: "40's Great for camp K-mart , poor for State Parks." Yet another quote second post "SURE you can get a 40 into many fine comercial campsites." I find this to be a little contradictory. And to add: "The 40 ft coaches are FINE , for those that need what they have to offer, room to take your house on the road. There even better with 4 slideouts. Thats not MY need , and except for some fulltimers , possably not the need of many folks at all." Now what I see from this statement is that bus owners that have a 40 footer should full time and if you don't full time, you should get yourself a smaller bus! I say, if you can afford it, (40+) go for it! You can always use the extra room and once you have it, you'll be sure to utilize it! Easier to have it and use it then to not have it and wish you did! Also there's not that much difference in driving a cargo van to a 40 foot bus! Once you get used to looking in the mirrors all you see is more siding! You shouldn't worry about what's behind you anyway. Once you aim it, the rest will follow! I thought our 35 foot eagle was long until I got used to it and then it seemed small. I then got the 40 foot Eagle and after driving it around for a bit, it too feels small! I have no problem going UP hills, down hills, on side steets, making turns to the right, turns to the left, or going straight ahead. I have never encountered a problem going thru resturant parking lots or around motel lots crowded with parked cars. If you can drive a car/small truck or van, you can drive the bus! It's heavier, and slower taking off but so are some of the blue hairs we put up with everyday! If the size or length intimidates you just from one's negative opinion on the size of a bus, do yourself and others a favor and buy a tent! If you are self motivated and feel confident in yourself, don't worry what others think or say, JUST DO IT! | ||
| chris risley (New2bus) (64.105.34.210)
Rating: N/A |
RJ Thanks for the thoughtful comments: Why would you suggest an Eagle over an MCI or a GM for shortening? What do you think about the problem caused by reducing the lever arm that balances the engine? Assuming the rear axle is 10 feet from the rear of the bus the front of the bus has a 30 ft lever arm from the rear axle. If I shorten that lever to only 20ft am I likely to do wheelies every time a light changes? ...which raises the question of a mid-engine bus for shortening...I think VanHool makes one a mid engine 40 foot coach but I have the impression that you think VanHool is junk. Whadja' think? Thanks Chris | ||
| RJ Long (24.127.8.58) Rating: N/A |
Why Eagle? They have a "birdcage" frame underneath the siding that can easily be shortened, widened, stretched, etc. The others don't. For example, the GMC is built like an airplane: the exterior skin is the chassis. The analogy would be taking a Pepsi can, cutting a section out of the middle, then trying to get it back together as accurately as it was before you cut into it. Same reason they're not a good candidate for roof raises. As for the lever arm, yes, the shorter the wheelbase, the greater the porpoising of the front end, due to the heavier powertrain hung out behind the axle. Especially with that Nu-Way suspension I mentioned earlier. (Side note: Somebody, and I don't remember who, possibly Blitz, modified several 4106s for Pikes Peak back in the '60's by removing five feet from the body, making them 30 footers. They may have even been a special order from GM. . . just can't remember the details. They were used for tours in the park and part way up the Peak, IIRC. Don't know if there are any running anymore, tho.) Don't think VH imports any of their mid-engined units to the States. Only think you find those in the European market, I've seen several in the UK & Ireland. Crown & Gillig both produced mid-engine school buses, mostly 35 and 40 footers. Built like tanks. . . IMHO, anytime you take a highway coach and cut it up to shorten it, you're going to severly alter it's ride and handling. Sometimes it's hard to second-guess the factory engineers. . . Are you afraid of a 35 footer? | ||
| FAST FRED (63.215.239.244) Rating: N/A |
One simple way to think of what coach is suitable for what service it to consider the design era. The 35 Flex GM and MCI all come from before the Eisenhour Highway system , the Interstates. If you prefer driving on the super slab , a fine way to get someplace , the newer coaches do a fine , but BOORING job. Perhaps its that the super slab here looks like the same slab there. If you prefer to discover America the old way , what is called the "Blue Highways" using the tool that was designed for THAT road system works best. There is no question a 40ft Furnature Farm can be hearded into the early areas of the country , but its WORK , not vacation fun & soon gets tiring. And coaches that stick up higher than the UPS truck , can frequently hear the branches announce that indeed there breaking a trail. For a 30 ft coach there are many coaches, that are closer to Skoolies , and will handle fine with a RV load aboard. At the prices being asked $10 to $20K the old Wanderlodges make lots of sense. They cost less than you can convert for , even a very Spartan conversion. Instantly insurable , and none of the Skoolie downside , " WE Don't allow Hippie Busses Here!" There is no question that the coaches for sale cheaply are the 40 ft , and the future only holds more 40's coming off the line. And the magazine trend of needing raised roofs , 20KW noise makers , towed garages ect will last untill the enjoyable dreaming/building / outfitting stages are over , and the builders realize the limits they have created for them selves. IN terms of hight, weight , turning radius, the bigger the coach , the more limits. Part of this is the strange concept that many have NO RV experience , in any size motorhome , and decide to build "The BEST". "The best " is what they see other folks ( frequently with the same experience level) NONE, are doing, and they follow along. However converting a seated coach is NOT the only way to get an RV . There are lots of older , simpler coacxhes that the owners have spent much time & cash on , that are in far better shape mechanically than the transit or charter co scrap. Best solution is to GO to a coach ralley and talk to the owners , ask questions , and look at different methods of solving the same basic problems (creating a Rolling Home)and decide which combination of solutions you think would do best for what you think you need. FAST FRED | ||
| Ace (24.28.44.126) Rating: N/A |
I don't know about the rest of you but I'm so discouraged now, I think I'll just sell my 40 foot self done Eagle conversion better known as a furniture farm on wheels that can't be hearded down the country roads of America because of the possibility of tree branches touching the roof and buy me a boat! Problem I see now is the guy with all the answers has discouraged anyone from buying a 40 footer so I guess I'm stuck with it! Damn interstates! Why did they go and build them things anyway? Sheesh! Ace | ||
| Don KS/TX (64.24.4.21)
Rating: N/A |
As RJ said, this HAS become an interesting discussion. FF has made some good points in his last expression of opinions, but I think I disagree with the cause and effect for 35 vs 40 foot buses. If I recall correctly, it was NOT a situation of the Greyhound deciding one day "Gosh we have so many superslabs, so now we will order only 40 foot buses." I think it was that 40 footers were not LEGAL until that time, and when they became legal, the bus companies all started building 40 foot buses because demand for the 35 foot ones stopped. Those same bus companies that ordered the 40 footers had to go down into each and every little podunk town depot to pick up and leave off passengers as you might recall if you lived in those times. I can recall in riding buses during that period that some had to "see saw" thru some intersections and they did that with ease and skill, the same way they did the 35 foot 3751's and Flx in the 40's. A very small price to pay for the added revenue of an additional 8 paying passengers (41 pass 4106 vs 49 in the 4905). I certainly enjoy my extra 5 feet of living for 6 months enough to trade it for the 2 minutes of pleasure to drive thru low trees or along creekbanks. That is what the toad is for! Don't give it away yet Ace, someday FF will get to ride in a 45 foot Eagle with four roof airs, automatic, 500 hp, 25kw genset, antenna farm on top for satellites, double slideouts, and will be telling us what a piece of crap them old junk 35 foot GMC's were. Right Fred? :-) | ||
| Peter (Sdibaja) (209.242.148.130)
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With our 4905 on the back roads of Mexico... no problem. When I go on an adventure I unhook the Thing and go have a look first. | ||
| john wood (206.252.234.140)
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Galey says the "thing" works as a boat as well! This saves having to tow both. Was yours the one he wrote about? jw | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior) (64.229.211.73)
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Wow! What a wealth of thought, provocation, opinion and information in this thread! Back there somewhere was some talk of the driving skills needed vs the capability of the various bus lengths to negotiate spaces. As always, the answer is: "It all depends" What driving skill do you bring to the wheel? What are the physical limits of the coach in question? Can you wring the best out of what you have got? Will getting the maximum out of your coach's capabilities be fun or create unwanted stress? Some of us are quite safe and content to stay within our limitations, and have no desire or need to hone our skills to the finest edge. Some of us are top gunners and risk takers who simply must be equal to our equipment and any environment that it may operate in. To illustrate, and perhaps help you in deciding what your profile is: Would you like to drive your coach in New York City? Some charter drivers use the sidestreets in Manhatten extensively. Not every bus driver will. They'll swear that the big coach won't fit down with any double parked cars.(it will) If that 45' by 102" MCI Rennaissance or Prevost H3-45 will fit with 2" on either side, some will be there and having fun. Not every bus driver will have fun. The Rennaissance or Prevost is capable. Not every bus driver will get that capability out of one. A smaller coach in width and length will fit in a few more places than the Rennaissance or Prevost, but again, will the driver be any more able to use a more capable coach? My loose observation has been if regular auto drivers can drive a car around some place without slowing down or thinking much about it, then a coach will fit. Only issue at that point is whether you can make it fit and have fun attempting it? And that it isn't a big deal to throw it in reverse and back out of the fun you just tried to have? Very important that you ENJOY what you are doing. Don't take it out on your spouse, if you can't handle the fun! So, as imperfect human beings, we may only believe that the only things possible are the ones we have seen or are able to do ourselves. Which depends completely on our abilities, and which camp we see ourselves in. So, you might never go to a state park now, or you might go directly out to see for yourself, because if you can't make it fit, no one can. Or is it the other way around? Thanks always to FF and Ace for spicing things up just a bit. You two aren't secretly married are you? (JUST A JOKE! GEEZ, DON'T BE FLAMING ME!) happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior) (64.229.211.73)
Rating: N/A |
Oh, and Canada does have real roads. Fred, e-mail me off the board about your trip up to see the Trent-Severn Canal. I'm from up here. Whatever help I can offer, freely given! happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Ace (24.28.44.126) Rating: N/A |
Busswarrior! OK I'll bite on this one! Yea, were secretly married! He's the bitch though! LOL Ace | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (66.190.119.82)
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I think every driver needs to spend a week or two in Paris, riding the tour busses to all the different places you visit. I could absolutely guarantee that a driver could not get a bus thru some of the streets where we were going, but he did and I never saw a scratch on one. After that experience, I never hesitate to take my Eagle anywhere I want to go. I have never had to back up five miles and I have never taken out a tree. I believe FF is just an old fraidy cat with minimal driving skills. Just my opinion though!! Richard | ||
| R C Bishop (128.123.88.32)
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Buswarrior: GREAT POST and well said!!! Enjoyed it to the utmost and yes, the shoe did fit....somewhere, I'm sure. Here Here!! Thanx a bunch for a good laugh and some good advice. RCB | ||
| Ace (24.28.44.126) Rating: N/A |
You know me! I couldn't agree more! LOL Ace | ||
| CoryDane RTSII IL (4.17.253.176) Rating: N/A |
Ok, so the consensis is FF is right, sort of. Is that what I am reading? Someone mentioned tight turns, I have a RTS and It seems to really do tight turns nicely. So 40 footer take out trees too? that could have some ecological value. But I don't get the driving the bus is'nt any fun. Its a real treat, why would'nt it be fun? I remember once at Disney World we were stranded late at night, waiting for one of the Disney Transport buses. Along came an RTS and darn if the driver didn't tell me that all the buses were out of service. He then asked were we had to go and after we told him, he told us to get on board. This guy did the tightest "U" turn I ever saw a bus do. Well more like a three point turn. He took us right to the front door by golly. Later I found out his bus was out of service, heading for the bus barn and took it upon himself to deliver us home. I can get real appreciative of people like that. But that RTS did a real tight turn and they run the trees all the time. Don't see them dumping them RTS 40 footers either. (Actually I tried to get Disney to sell one, they politely told me they were not for sale). thanks for all the responses. cd | ||
| FAST FRED (63.208.83.240) Rating: N/A |
The RTs has a different front axle , that can cut to a higher angle than most road coaches, although the very new stuff , the 45 ft have started to use that style and can do U turns in an alley , that ONLY one other "person" on this board can do. aLSO dIZZY WORLD IS a new build place like much of the South so an excursion from a 20 ft wide road onto the 50ft right of way (fire dept mandate)is hardly a show of driving skills , but he was a good employee , in servicing the customer helpfully. One other problem is terms , When I refer to camping, it's what others refer to as Boondockin. Overnite Stopping in Flying J and having to breathe 100's of ideling diesel exhausts , I refer to as Hell. A commercial site , wide cleared turns , big parking pull thru ect , I refer to as PP. PP is the Power Post so many seem unwilling to be more than 15ft from. So in the future we can save some confusion if we seperate PP living from camping. Unless others have a better set of terms. As a NYC borne & breed ,I'll explain, the reason that the streets are busy but a bus can always get thru is very simple. EVERYONE leaves enough room for the garbage trucks to get by , cause they WILL get by , with or without your MB door getting groved. AS the garbage trucks go up & down every street , folks are cautious everywhere. FAST FRED | ||
| Jim Ashworth (Jimnh) (172.128.44.241)
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Of the few times I have had to back out of situations, even a 35 footer would have to. Most memorable was on the way to Caylor supply in Rantoul, KS. The two lane road we took eventually led to a bridge posted for 5000lbs. I was really upset to find that, so much so, that I discovered if you're really p**sed, the MC-8 will go 25mph in reverse. Talking to Sam much later than I expected, he said they take tractor-trailers over that bridge with D-8 bulldozers on board. Didn't have to back up almost a mile after all. Jim | ||
| Ace (24.28.44.126) Rating: N/A |
Cory, I wouldn't say the consensus is that FF is right, sort of! More like 50/50! What I see is, a persons opinion given, then when he gets questioned on it, a bunch of back peddling to make it look like he didn't really mean what he said in the first place! The only REAL thing I have seen him do is point the finger and come up with derogatory names for guys like me that see right thru his god like wannabee to a busnut information source. If you go back and read his first post, he was all about NOT having a 40 foot bus for HIS reasons. Then as the days past, he slowly gave in to the fact that others were disagreeing with him and said "The 40 ft coaches are FINE , for those that need what they have to offer, room to take your house on the road, as an example! He does this same thing all the time! Offers his negative opinion, then when things don't seem to go HIS way, he snakes his opinion around the garbage truck and down the alley, so to speak, so it doesn't look so bad on him! Actually, it's beginning to be kind of fun watching him be the FIRST to answer a question and then see how it goes from there! The reason I have sat out of conversations in the recent past was to just watch and see what happens when he jumps in! It's way too funny! All I can truly say is, " you would have to see it, to believe it"! | ||
| Don KS/TX (64.24.4.58)
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Cory pointed out something there, I have a friend with a 4106 and an RTS (40 ft). He assures me that his 40 ft RTS will turn much shorter than his 35 ft 4106 (like FF has). Kinda kills the whole point of disagreement for boondock stuff. I also saw a big ole MCI Renassiance with steering tag axle go where NO 4106 could ever make it. | ||
| RJ Long (24.127.8.58) Rating: N/A |
Talking about "tight" steering, and steerable tag axles: The 40-foot Setra has a 34-foot turning radius, and the 45-footer's is only 39'9"! That's over 10 feet tighter than the MCI!!! Those are not misprints, either. Taken right off their own specification sheets. I've driven the 40-foot model, and you CAN make a U-turn on a road that has one lane in each direction and one of those "two-way left turn" lanes in the center, w/o having to three-point. Amazing coach, the Setra. . . | ||
| chris risley (New2bus) (128.177.196.59)
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RJ I looked at the Setra website. The 40 ft coach has a 216" - 18ft wheelbase (46% of length) that's about 5 feet shorter wheelbase than the 40ft MCI. So you'd expect it to be a tightturner with a big tailwhip. I thought short wheelbases on long buses were sometimes problematic for straight tracking and for porpoising. Guess Setra has solved those problems? | ||
| Ross Carlisle (Ross) (207.88.96.243)
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Speaking of tailwhip. I was getting gas this morning and a big Coachmen...Must have been at least 34ft...Pulled in to gas up. When he did, his rear end swung around and took out a phone booth. Must have been 10ft of rig behind the axle. Id rather have a wider turning radius than deal with that kind of tailwhip. Ross | ||
| Scott Whitney (24.205.233.143) Rating: N/A |
Someone commented once that that kind of overhang will literally throw a person out of bed if they attempt to sleep back there while underway and the coach hits a bump. But that is another good reason to get a diesel for a larger coach. Can use the truck stops instead of gas stations. . . Scott | ||
| Jim Ashworth (Jimnh) (172.141.43.184)
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Yes it will throw someone out of bed. Years ago, on both our 30' Southwind and 31' Coachmen plastic motorhomes, if one of the kids was sleeping on the back bed, you could watch them get tossed about 8" into the air over bumps repeatedly. Never woke up from that, though. Jim | ||
| Johnny (63.159.184.153)
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Yikes! My skoolie's turning radius is fair, but you're right--that $%^^%&$#$$&()%^#$@ overhang can make maneuvering a little interesting. Of course, having essentially no front overhang helps a bit. That guy in the Coachman was a moron. | ||
| Jim Ashworth (Jimnh) (172.168.100.184)
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Johnny- You have such a way with words. What makes the Coachmen guy a moron? Is this the same attitude that started the thread "Some people are just stupid"? Jim | ||
| Ross Carlisle (Ross) (207.88.96.235)
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>>That guy in the Coachman was a moron. No...He just misjudged his overhang which is easy to do when you have 10-12 feet of it. You shouldnt be so quick to judge...It could happen to you. Could happen to any of us during a momentary lapse in judgement. Ross | ||
| Johnny (63.159.188.103)
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I've driven long-overhang vehicles since age 17--ranging from a 1977 Dodge/Coachman class C RV, to a 1970-something 26' GMC box truck, to a 1988 Nissan UD cab-over flatbed with hydraulic lift, to a 2001 F-550 rollback wrecker, to a 1984 school bus. I have NEVER hit anything with the overhang--or hit ANYTHING except a couple of curbs with these vehicles. As a tow-truck driver, I've lost what little patientce I used to have with clueless drivers. I've seen the damage they can do. | ||
| John G Root Jr (Johnroot) (140.186.114.253)
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I agree with Fast Fred and everyone else who says that knowing how you want to use your coach is the most important thing in deciding which bus to go for. If you like KOA's and the resorts then length is no problem. I decided I wanted a 35' after looking at the length limits on the State Parks in NY, MA and CT. Only two state parks in MA accept 40' all will take 35' but have only one or two spots that are for 35', CT the same and NY only has a few 40' parks. I have not yet seen a 40' bus or motorhome in the state parks I have been camping in for years, but the first converted 4106 I saw was at Hearthstone State Park on Lake George (35' limit). I haven't got my bus far enough along to go camping yet but at least I am confident that I will be able to go to the state parks I like. One other thing, I live on a small country road and was thinking that the bus would have a hard time making the hard right at the top of the hill onto my road, and that I wouldn't be able to turn right into my driveway because it joins the road at angle which even cars have to swing wide for. I was wrong on both counts, my 35' 4106 makes the sharp right no problem and by building up the driveway just a little bit (to widen it at the road) the bus makes that turn as well. I am grateful to Fast Fred for making me think about what I want. I started out wanting a MCI 9 all electric and now I have a 4106 and am planning propane fridge, stove and generator, but Webasto heat! John |