| Author | Message | ||
| Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member Username: Doninwa Post Number: 113 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 208.81.157.90  Rating: N/A |
Jerry, after using your 18K mini-split AC for a while, do you think a 12K would do the job in a well insulated 4107 or should I stick with an 18K? I will have a second AC in the bedroom. Can you give me a hint where to find the transformer and what wattage it needs to be? The highest rated I find is 1000VA. Not sure just what the rating needs to be since it appears part of the current bypasses the transformer. Anything you can do to 'splain it would help. Thanks Don 4107 | ||
| Nick Badame Refrigeration Co. (Dnick85)
Registered Member Username: Dnick85 Post Number: 213 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 76.124.92.192  Rating: |
Hi Don, If you are going to stay with the 18,000 and 230v. You should concider the multi zone units where you have 1 outdoor unit and up to 3 indoor units. www.sanyohvac.com Theese multi zone systems are very efficient and now have invereter tech. The compressors are DC and variable speed depending on the call for zones. This set-up will take less bay space. They come in 7,000, 9,000, 12,000 18,000 and any configurations you like. This would suite your bedroom having the smaller unit back there and a larger one up front. I have never been a fan of Ductless Splits in a Bus Conversion because they are not designed to drain off condensate water when not sitting level, they are not designed to be in a moving enviroment, and they don't dehumidify the air as well as conventional systems. But, they work, and many folks use them with no problems. Good Luck Nick- | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 412 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.75.253 Rating: |
Don, I am an HVAC contractor also, and Nick just got my vote. His last two paragraphs are how it is. I don't have Jerry's schematic easily available, but believe me, he is WELL qualified to explain it. From what you are saying, it sounds like what is commonly known as a "buck-boost" configuration. Lets let Jerry explain it, if you don't hear from him in a while, post back, and I'll explain. Regards, George | ||
| Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member Username: Doninwa Post Number: 114 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 208.81.157.90 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Nick, Any idea what the max DC voltage the compressor runs at? If it was 12 or 24VDC it might make for some interesting possibilities. The schematics don't show any voltages. In fact they show the units wired for single phase 220 on page 36-38 of the service manual. Must not be the US version. The concealed duct unit would be interesting too. Appears to only be available with 26K+ units. Are you a Sanyo dealer and can you mix and match components? I understand about the units not being designed to work in a mobile installation. If they are designed to survive shipping from Asia and OTR shipping and normal freight handling, they should live for a while. I have to think that if carefully installed, riding in something as smooth as a bus, they should survive for a long time. Thanks again, Don 4107 | ||
| Nick Badame Refrigeration Co. (Dnick85)
Registered Member Username: Dnick85 Post Number: 214 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 75.196.120.198 Rating: N/A |
Hi Don, Unfortunately, the compressors operate from a DC variable speed controller that they call an inverter..?? DC volts vary from 12v to 36v depending on the call for zones. Yes, I am a Sanyo Dealer but, you should know that Sanyo is the top of the line. There are lower priced units out there and I just won't sell them anymore. I strayed away from Sanyo a few years ago for better pricing but, paid dearly in call backs for nonsence things. Sanyo's are truely, "Fire and Forget about them" You don't even need a set of guages to install them, they are that exact. 5% under or over does Not effect the operation one bit. Just flare your copper, evacuate the system, and open the valves.. They are precharged with R410A. Good Luck Nick- | ||
| Nick Badame Refrigeration Co. (Dnick85)
Registered Member Username: Dnick85 Post Number: 215 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 75.196.120.198 Rating: N/A |
Oh, Don, Single phase 220v is US. Nick- | ||
| Leland Bradley (Lee_bradley)
Registered Member Username: Lee_bradley Post Number: 30 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 138.163.0.42 Rating: N/A |
Don, Try this site http://www.partsonsale.com/t240.html for a 3900VA transformer. | ||
| Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member Username: Doninwa Post Number: 115 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 208.81.157.90 Rating: N/A |
What caught my eye is the diagram shows what I read as a neutral and only one "line in" on page 38 of the PDF. Maybe they just use different labels than what I'm accustomed to. One N and one L. http://www.sanyohvac.com/assets/documents/service/Service_KS(L)18-24_72_SeriesRevB.pdf Looks like to use the link it would have to be copied and pasted. Thanks Don 4107 (Message edited by doninwa on April 16, 2008) | ||
| Nick Badame Refrigeration Co. (Dnick85)
Registered Member Username: Dnick85 Post Number: 216 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 75.196.120.198 Rating: N/A |
Hi Don, For some reason, I can't load the link at all. Here is a spec sheet on the HP multi inverter system. The voltages are 208-230 single phase 60hz http://www.sanyohvac.com/products.php?id=CMH1972 And here is the single 18,000btu HP http://www.sanyohvac.com/products.php?id=18KHS72 Nick- | ||
| Nick Badame Refrigeration Co. (Dnick85)
Registered Member Username: Dnick85 Post Number: 217 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 75.196.120.198 Rating: N/A |
Don, Here is the 12,00 btu HP that is 115v 1ph 60hz http://www.sanyohvac.com/products.php?id=12KHS71 Nick- | ||
| Jerome Dusenberry (Jerry32)
Registered Member Username: Jerry32 Post Number: 51 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 148.78.245.11 Rating: N/A |
If you allready have an AC in the bedroom the 12000 should do just fine. I put a 12K in my bus and in 105 degree weather it kept is cool. also this winter in Yuma it also would heat on those mid 30s days just fine. Jerry | ||
| FloridaCliff (Floridacracker)
Registered Member Username: Floridacracker Post Number: 378 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 24.27.228.156 Rating: N/A |
The real key is how your coach is insulated and how many windows, plus how many people normally are on board. All these factor into the calculation. No matter what type of unit, you can't hide from these factors. Cliff | ||
| JR Lynch (Njt5047)
Registered Member Username: Njt5047 Post Number: 233 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.132.233.230 Rating: N/A |
Nick, is a Coleman Tru-Air (sp?) heat pump unit dependable? Friend of ours has one of these things in an Itasca MH and it works really well. It's the only thing that works well in his motorhome. He says it's 40K btu...it oughta work well if it's really that large? Don't you have Cruise Airs? Where's that pix of your HVAC install? I've seen them, but cannot find the pix? Would you build your next coach the same way? I'm planning my 'retirement' home. Probably never build it, but...planning eh? Thanks, JR | ||
| Nick Badame Refrigeration Co. (Dnick85)
Registered Member Username: Dnick85 Post Number: 218 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 75.196.120.198 Rating: N/A |
Hi JR, The coleman duel unit is 26,000 btu's not 40. Yes, they are OK but, It always takes 1 to 2 weeks for parts with Coleman. Not good when you have a vacationer on a 1 to 2 week trip. I am planning my 2nd coach allready and yes It will be equiped with the same design. It just works! Why change? I'll see if I can post the pics. 2- 15,000 btu HP's mfg. by Dometic Corp. each have 2 speed fans and ducted into a custom overhead trunk in my lowered ceiling with 12 dampered 2" defusers. "space Pac defusers" Nick-   (Message edited by dnick85 on April 16, 2008) | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Registered Member Username: Drivingmisslazy Post Number: 2046 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 75.108.85.14 Rating: N/A |
208 is also 60 hertz, US voltage. Richard | ||
| Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
Registered Member Username: Jerry_liebler Post Number: 333 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 71.28.245.39 Rating: N/A |
Don, I'd recomend sticking with the 18,000 BTU/h heat pump. My bus is reasonably well insulated and the front heat pump is sufficient till the outside temp is about 95. I can run the front unit from my inverter while driving and it keeps us cool in most situations. As to the transformer, I used one rated to supply 12 amps. It is a 'toroidal' isolation transformer (this type has the lowest losses and voltage drop). The transformer is a 120 volt in, 120 volt out unit, wired so it's output is out of phase with it's input and thus adds 120 volts to the input to supply the 240 to the heat pump. I chose the 12 amp rating to account for the starting surge of the compressor motor, which is rated at about 6.4 amps running. This transformer and setup has proven itself. I found the transformer on Ebay for about $100. If you do choose a ductless minisplit I'd recomend putting the indoor portion on the curb side (mine is on the road side) as this will give maximum cool air to the driver, these units blow cool air out and down and a good bit forward and back. I found that the 18,000 BTU SEER 13+ units are actually more efficient (draw less power at full cooling) than the inverter units. The inverter units are smaller and do not have the starting surges but are actually a bit less efficient at max cooling and they are much more pricey. In the installation of the indoor unit you'll want to pay close attention to the condensate drain situation, My unit allows a drain from each end and I'm using both. Regards Jerry 4107 1120 | ||
| JR Lynch (Njt5047)
Registered Member Username: Njt5047 Post Number: 234 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 69.132.233.230 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Nick, that's what I was looking for. JR | ||
| Rob Pacella (Rap16823)
Registered Member Username: Rap16823 Post Number: 6 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 12.177.54.235 Rating: N/A |
I am very intrested in hearing about the sanyo units that some of you may have installed. I have 4 of the 9000 BTU units,a bigger 2 zone unit, and one that recesses in the ceiling. I I removed them from a house and they all seem to work fine, I think they had R 22 in them. What I want to know is what is the best way to power them, If they are DC compresors can you run them right from the bus's 24 volt DC system. I would like to use them in my conversion but want to here from some of you that already are using them. | ||
| Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member Username: Doninwa Post Number: 116 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 208.81.157.90 Rating: N/A |
Jerry, thanks for the info. If I understand correctly (doubtful) if the transformer is rated at 1000VA with dual primaries and dual secondaries and I parallel the primaries together and parallel secondaries it will double the wattage. True? Then connect the primary in series with the secondary with the 110AC neutral connected to the same point. Connect the hot 110AC to the other end of the primary and also one leg of the 220AC with the other leg connected to the loose end of the secondary. Close? I assume the neutral has to be common to both voltages. Did you put the transformer in some type of enclosure? I will keep looking for a deal on the transformer. Thanks to Jerry and all. Don 4107 | ||
| Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
Registered Member Username: Jerry_liebler Post Number: 334 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 71.31.43.134 Rating: N/A |
Don, IF the transformer has dual primaries and/or secondaries, then you parallel them. If it is rated at 1000 VA, that is the total rating of all primaries. My transformer is actually rated at 1500 VA & that's what I know works. I did not mount it in an enclosure but it is quite inaccessible and mounted to the "bulkhead" that seperated the AC condensor compartment from the area where the evaporator & heater core were when the OEM HVAC was in. Your connection description is good, the neutral only goes to the transformer (one end of each, primary and secondary) not to the 240 volt load. Regards Jerry 4107 1120 | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 296 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.28 Rating: N/A |
"The real key is how your coach is insulated and how many windows, plus how many people normally are on board. All these factor into the calculation. No matter what type of unit, you can't hide from these factors. " An additional factor is insolation , ability to deflect the suns heat. Simplest is a WHITE!! roof and long awnings on both sides. Being in the Shade under a tree is still Best! FF |
