| Author | Message | ||
| Grant Thiessen (Busshawg)
Registered Member Username: Busshawg Post Number: 28 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 206.45.93.160 Rating: N/A |
Hello again guys. I was wondering if any of you are running copper lines for your propane systems, or if not what other material can be used that is user friendy, thanks in advance once again. | ||
| Glenn Williams (Glenn)
Registered Member Username: Glenn Post Number: 156 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 216.163.57.205  Rating: N/A |
I'm running 3/8 copper with flare fittings. I've had no problems with it at all. Glenn | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 239 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 76.4.151.87 Rating: N/A |
grant; I use black pipe for the long runs so I can fasten it with cushioning between the mounting to the coach,then adapt it to copper and secure that also because of the vibration. I have put it in like a hose and secured that and that keeps all the vibration down and prevents leaks at the connectors. Gomer | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 360 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.59.166 Rating: N/A |
Grant, the best way I found is to buy the braided hose made for propane and doesn't cost that much more plus it is easy to install you save a lot of time.These folks do not have the RV stuff on their web site yet but they have all the parts and hoses you need www.bestmaterials.com (Message edited by luvrbus on April 22, 2008) (Message edited by luvrbus on April 22, 2008) | ||
| Grant Thiessen (Busshawg)
Registered Member Username: Busshawg Post Number: 29 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 206.45.93.160 Rating: N/A |
thanks a lot guys, you have all helped immensely What I get out of your answers is that the most important part is to allow for vibration. Grant | ||
| Les McDaniel (Rainbow)
Registered Member Username: Rainbow Post Number: 5 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 75.157.92.144 Rating: |
The code in Canada is no joins in the vehicle except attaching to the appliance. You may use an area that is vented at the bottom to the outside, sealed from the interior and there is no source of ignition. When I was in the business I installed all the junctions in the same compartment that was built for the tank or bottles. I used 3/8 copper slid inside of vinyl tubing for protection. Use flare fittings and secure the tubing as needed. 30 yrs exp. | ||
| Grant Thiessen (Busshawg)
Registered Member Username: Busshawg Post Number: 30 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 206.45.93.160 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Les. I was planning on putting the propane bottles in a cargo bay seperate from my breaker boxes and water supply. However there will be wiring running through it with no electical connections. 12V and 110 Wires straight through the top of compartment in vinyl tubing. Is this permissable? Also I was planning on installing propane T connections shortly after the regulor in the compartment to run to the fridge and stove. No connections between these T's to each appliance. The hot water tank I have is propane only and I was planning on installing it either in the same compartment as the water tanks or in the same are as the propane tanks. So in other words are these T's permissable? I'm thinking 3 T's in total. Any problems with this installation? thanks again! | ||
| Cindy and John (Cindyandjohn)
Registered Member Username: Cindyandjohn Post Number: 66 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 70.15.55.179 Rating: N/A |
Les, Sorry for adding another question inside this post - but it sounds like you are the person whose brain I have needed to pick - for a while. I have been considering running CSST from a storage bay to my water bay for my propane hot water heater. I can't find a source for it though. I have to admit I tried to use rubber hoses and it didnt give me enough pressure to run the water heater - I had a regulator rated for higher BTUs - like that for a smoker / cooker but still didnt give enough pressure for water heater. Do you think this is a regulator issue? hose issue? I know that I didnt run the proper code stuff and that why it is disconnected right now. I actually have to hook a 20LB tank outside of the water bay to get hot water - but it still gives me troubles. Your help is gratly appreciated. I am to the point of pulling the propane out and finding a good electric water heater... Thanks, John | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 362 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.48.120 Rating: N/A |
John, I chased the problem you are having for about 2 weeks on my van the problem is not the hose or the regulator it is the POL adapter the part that attaches to the tank most premade hoses have a POL with a orifice and you need the full flow POL #g-1675 a wise old propane man found my problem and the water heater works great now,also if you buy a POL with out the hose you get the one with the orifice most of the time if you don't ask for a full flow good luck John here is where a friend of mine got his CSST http://www.superiorpropaneinc.com (Message edited by luvrbus on April 23, 2008) (Message edited by luvrbus on April 23, 2008) | ||
| Chuck Newman (Chuck_newman)
Registered Member Username: Chuck_newman Post Number: 257 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 63.145.177.245 Rating: N/A |
"The hot water tank I have is propane only and I was planning on installing it either in the same compartment as the water tanks or in the same are as the propane tanks." Grant, any spark or flame producing device in the same box/container/bay/etc. as the propane storage is forbidden under NFPA 58, and for good reason. Common sense will tell you what will happen if you have a leak. And the area of propane cylinders and/or ASME tank must be vented at top and bottom to the outside and air tight sealed from the interior of the coach. If you have a fire with a non-code installation, your insurance company will not pay the claim. | ||
| Les McDaniel (Rainbow)
Registered Member Username: Rainbow Post Number: 6 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 75.157.75.46 Rating: |
Grant I suggest a plywood compartment for your propane sealed from the rest of the cargo bay. Put the water heater in the water bay. I put 2 vent holes 2"D. in the floor. Propane is heavy and sinks. Putting an upper vent in may cause problems with regulations as to the distance from combustion air intake of other appliances. CSA inspecters had me use the bottom only vent when the upper was too close to an intake. When the regulations were made, no consideration was made for buses. Cindy & John I assume you are using a RV water heater. A 2 stage RV regulator, 1/4" inlet 3/8" outlet will run all the appliances in an RV. It should come set for 11" water column (6 oz. ) pressure, which is what the water heater is designed to operate at. Is the air mixture, alignment of the buner, and venting correct? The POL with the orifice should work fine. It is designed to restrict excess flow, such as a ruptured line. | ||
| Cindy and John (Cindyandjohn)
Registered Member Username: Cindyandjohn Post Number: 67 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 70.15.55.179 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the info guys... I have been going crazy with this for a while. I wasn't using a 2 stage RV regulator. It was simply a higher rated grill / cooker regulator. I thought it was supposed to put out the 11" wc presure, but I am having my doubts. The only reason I was thinking it worked is that when I have the short line attached with a 20lb tank right outside the bay, it works most of the time. But it appears that when the propane tank is cold (as in the mornings when you really want a shower) the heater wouldnt work, but when the tank warms up during the day - it works? I am certainly no expert in propane... If you know anyone in or around the Poconos (Pennsylvania) who would like some side work... I would love to pay someone to help on this. Until then - I will look for some of the proper parts and see where it goes from there. Thanks again, John | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 416 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 76.91.197.153 Rating: N/A |
C & J, All the single regulators will produce 11" Water Column at their original setting. But, how many BTU they are rated for is a whole different thing. Secondly, when the liquid in a propane tank evaporates as the vapor is drawn off the top, it cools the tank, which lowers the pressure available to the regulator. When the tank pressure drops to a few pounds, the regulator just can't work well. The answer to this is either a much larger tank, or at least two of your 20 pounders in parallel, if you are trying to stay with the exchange route. As info, a gallon of propane contains 94,600BTU, while electric heat provides 3.41BTU per Watt. What this means is that ALL 1500 Watt electric heaters only provide 5200BTU per hour. Cold showers anyone? Hope this clears it up a little, George | ||
| Chuck Newman (Chuck_newman)
Registered Member Username: Chuck_newman Post Number: 258 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 63.145.177.245 Rating: N/A |
George is correct, but to elaborate on one point: When the propane vessel cools and the flow remains constant, the venturi effect in the regulator causes icing within a single stage regulator. A common problem with small tanks, heavier loads. That is the main reason ANSI 1192 (the RV code) requires dual stage LPG regulators on all RV LPG cylinders and/or tanks (two different vessels with different requirements). The code requires upper and lower vents regardless of other exterior factors. It also states you cannot have combustible outlets within 3 feet horizontal of any LPG compartment's vents for obvious reasons. Regardless of the type of vehicle to which it is attached. | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 147 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.99.21.210 Rating: N/A |
My preference is with home runs from a manifold near the tanks to each appliance. I would have a shut off at the manifold for each line. Use continuous 3/8" copper tubing with no joints between the manifold and the appliance. Len | ||
| Cindy and John (Cindyandjohn)
Registered Member Username: Cindyandjohn Post Number: 68 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 70.15.55.179 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Guys, I think the problem is the regulator... I have a 40LB tank and it also does this stuff too. I found a site on the internet that sells regulators, lines, etc - www.gaseco.com I think i should look at one of their regulators and possibly the POL too? I would like to run CSST with home run shots and a manifold... Unless the copper is easier? I suppose there are many opinions on the issue. I would eventually want to add a few propane heaters - we take the bus skiing and boondock in ski area parking lots for a few days and I would love to have backup heat in case the generator decides to stop working one day... I saw a CSST system online and it looks nice, clean, and it sounds like it would be a good idea. This is the site - http://www.gumpydog.com/bus/MC9_WIP/Propane_Distribution/propane_distribution.htm - I am sure I found his link here on the board and quickly put it into my favorites... All help and advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks, John | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 236 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 72.89.73.18  Rating: N/A |
Cindy and John, The corrugated stainless steel pipe does look clean but is fragile in that it can be crushed and punctured. It has reusable fittings that are a little pricey altho purchased once. The savings are usually in labor as with hard piping you have more connections at turns etc. Less chance with leaks with the csst as less connections usually. We have to take a course from the manufacturer to use it. You would have to be very carefull in securing the csst and especially with chafe protection thru bulkheads. I should look to see how Gumpy handles these issues. I used the csst alot for running gas to fireplace log sets in basements. the labor savings was amazing. used the csst from the boiler room or meter location to the bottom of the fireplace and then hard pipe up into the hearth. But i never would hide it behind sheet rock where another contractor could hit it with a screw or sawzall. Anyway our town has outlawed it now unless we can get an electrician to bond/ground it and get a UL certificate. I would look hard at the RV code for the csst. We have black iron pipe with hose connections at the tank and to each individual appliance.We wrapped the pipe with rubber hose where it passed thru the bulkhead.You can make it look very nice if you paint the pipe to hide ugly spots and use the good clamps with the rubber inserts. Good Luck, Dave | ||
| Cindy and John (Cindyandjohn)
Registered Member Username: Cindyandjohn Post Number: 69 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 70.15.55.179 Rating: N/A |
Dave, I am not set on the CSST - I did see where they talked about taking the training to use it. I really want to use what is best in our coach. I am not afraid to pay more for a better setup - but I only want to do it once... I had installed the hot water heater with rubber LP hoses temporarily but it didnt work anyhow... Not too worried about the looks as I am the functionality and safety. I want to get this setup finished soon. I would use the copper tubing as other say but i just don't feel confident of the flared ends - or me making the flared ends... I might just end up trying to find someone local who is skilled at Propane lines to install it for me. There are two things I try to make sure I do right - Electric and Propane - I am more confident of my electrical skills! Thank you for the pointers. John | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 300 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 72.64.23.147 Rating: |
Propane like everything else has gotten crappier. So after the tank , as you feed the iron pipe manifold be sure to install a T with one end pointing DOWN and a 5 or 6inch nipple and cap. This will get the dirt and oil that is in most propane. The manifold should have an individual shut off valve for thr ramge , HW heater , fridge and furnace. Makes servicing easier. FF | ||
| James Stacy (Jimstacy)
Registered Member Username: Jimstacy Post Number: 133 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 76.248.114.6 Rating: |
A manifold with a rubber propane hose to each appliance is a good solution. These hoses can be custom fabricated by most propane services at a very reasonable cost. Every line must have a check valve or shut off per code. The shut off is the practical solution for safety and service. I mounted the manifold and lines to the ceiling of the bay to protect them from damage, yet be visible and accessible. The manifold can be easily made from a block of aluminum, cross drilled and tapped, with the shut offs screwed directly into the block. This is a strong, simple system with a minimum of joints. BTW I used the same design for the cold water and hot water manifolds. Works great, safe, simple to build, very strong, minimum of joints. HTH Jim Stacy |
