| Author |
Message |
John Biundo (Jbiundo) (64.175.36.81)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 5:37 pm: | |
As you might have guessed, I'm at the stage where I'm planning out my re-skinning and window installation, hence all the questions.
Here are a few questions about windows.
Jeff at Peninsula Glass assures me I do NOT have to build a frame for the windows. They are built to sandwich around the inner and outer skins (in my case, this will be 18gauge steel and a layer of fiberglass on the outside, and a layer of "space blanket" type insulation (maybe 1/4") and 1/2" plywood on the inside).
My question: is this a reasonable approach? I was assuming I had to frame for the windows until I spoke to Jeff, and would definitely rather not if I am confident this approach will work without problems. Hopefully some of you have had success with this approach...
Also, does anybody have any tips/pointers/lessons learned about sizing and installing windows in general? E.g., amount of space needed above window for installing an awning, or any other things I need to think about before finalizing my design?
Thanks in advance!
John |
Jim Ashworth (Jimnh) (172.157.186.231)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 6:49 pm: | |
I have always framed in windows. If the wall compresses just a little bit, it will flex and leak. I have NEVER had a leaky window and feel it is worth it to frame in the opening. It only costs a few bucks for the steel. A leak can cost a small fortune in hidden damage over the years.
Jim |
Nick Russell (207.140.228.43)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 8:07 pm: | |
John,
My wife ran a commercial glass shop for 20 years, installing windows in houses, store fronts, and every kind of vehicle there is. When we installed the windows in our MC-8 we did not build frames, just used the sandwich method you describe and caulked the frames with butyl. We have been in some terrible downpours and have never had a leak.
Nick
Gypsy Journal RV newspaper
www.gypsyjournal.net |
Ross Carlisle (Ross) (216.107.195.57)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 9:12 pm: | |
If you use a rigid core like Nick did (foam) them you would not need to frame. If you use a blanket type insulation you will need to frame to keep the inner and outer walls from coming together.
i just finished framing and skinning the drivers side. Pulled the last rivet about 2 hours ago.
Ross |
jmaxwell (66.42.92.137)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 10:17 pm: | |
I agree w/ Jim and his reasoning. If u want to do it like Winnabego and Fleetwood, forget the frame. |
John Biundo (Jbiundo) (64.175.36.81)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 5:52 pm: | |
Thanks very much for all the input.
Here's what I think I may do.
Frame in for all windows except the front 4 "picture windows".
For the front windows, the distance between the inside of the existing bus frame and the outside of the new window frame will be from 2.5 to 3 inches. Very hard to build new frames in that space, especially since all the existing corners have gussets.
So... I've seen a few people mention Fred Hobe's suggestion of wood framing, and have checked his tips on Tom Hall's site. I'm thinking maybe for these front windows, I'll frame out from the bus frame to the window frame in wood. This should avoid any flexing in the sides and prevent leaks.
I think this makes sense, but as always appreciate any feedback.
john |
Ross Carlisle (Ross) (207.88.96.90)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 6:05 pm: | |
I think you'd be better off framing in steel, even if it means going with a slightly smaller window. I don't know if you are considering resale, but if I were a perspective buyer, I would be put off by pictures of wood window frames. You are keeping a photo journal, arent you? Very important if you ever decide to sell the bus (I think). Maybe its just me, but I would not consider buying an owner converted bus unless I was detailed pics of the conversion.
Penn will make your windows any size you ask for. BTW...I found that Stormtite was quite a bit less money for basically the same window.
Ross |
John Biundo (Jbiundo) (64.175.36.81)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 30, 2002 - 1:18 am: | |
Yes, I am keeping a photo journal.
Well, it's a good point. My gut reaction, when seeing Hobe's tip, was that it wasn't what I would prefer. On the other hand, upon thinking about it, I don't see a problem with it. It's not structural -- it's merely there to keep the skins from flexing. In this case in particular, the wood would be directly adjacent to frame members, so there's really no significant load involved on the wood at all.
I'm kinda stuck on using the biggest possible windows in these openings, so I don't think smaller windows are the right answer.
I COULD frame in steel, I'd just be working with a bunch of 45 degree angles. Not really a big deal, I guess... I'll mull it a bit more.
Thanks for the pointer on storm-tite. I've heard it before, so I'll definitely check them out.
How did you evaluate that they're "basically the same window"? I've seen the Peninsula stuff, and I really liked there quality. I don't believe I've seen a sample of the Stormtite.
John |
Ross Carlisle (Ross) (207.88.96.119)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 30, 2002 - 9:13 am: | |
All of the RV windows are basically built the same way. You'd be hard pressed to pick a Penn window out of a lineup.
I ended up buying thermal pane, tinted, sliding windows straight from the manufacturer in Elkhart. I forget thier name. I got 4 22x48, 2 22x36 and 2 18x18 for $1508. My RV dealer friend ordered them for me, so that is dealer cost. As far as quality...Not much difference between these and Penn and Ive seen them both side by side. There are slight differences but they are all good quality.
Ross |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (66.190.119.82)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 30, 2002 - 9:19 am: | |
John, do not make the mistake of installing your windows too high from the floor.
I have seen several conversions (mine included) where the bottom of the window is so high from the floor that a short person (like my wife) can not see anything out out the window but the sky while sitting on a chair or the couch.
This is especially annoying while touring and the passengers can not see anything out the side windows except sky.
Richard |