| Author | Message | ||
| L James Jones Jr (Jamo)
Registered Member Username: Jamo Post Number: 46 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 74.79.238.13  Rating: N/A |
I have to have my 4104 inspected as per NYS. They will be jacking up the front end to check my goods, so to speak. I can find nothing in the service manual about jacking points. Sure would be good to know how & where we're supposed to do it, and do it right. Front and rear, if you would. Thanks Folks... Jamo | ||
| Austin Scott Davis (Zimtok)
Registered Member Username: Zimtok Post Number: 250 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 216.37.73.226 Rating: |
In my Maint. Manual it shows it. Section 19 Page 293-294   | ||
| Austin Scott Davis (Zimtok)
Registered Member Username: Zimtok Post Number: 251 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 216.37.73.226 Rating: N/A |
If you haven't already downloaded the manuals for your 4104 you need to. You can get them at the PD4104.com website. . | ||
| L James Jones Jr (Jamo)
Registered Member Username: Jamo Post Number: 47 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 74.79.238.13 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Zimtok, I was looking in '53 manual I bought from Chuck a while ago. It only goes up to page 250 or so, and nothing about jacking points. The manual that came with the bus is a '58, and I did find the pages you pointed out. Thanks again for the help.... Jamo | ||
| Patrick levenson (Zubzub)
Registered Member Username: Zubzub Post Number: 23 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 74.59.81.77 Rating: N/A |
the thing about the manual that is missing is body points for jacking. I know from having donwe it that the bottom edge of stairs, just ahead of the R wheel, running perp to the length of the bus makes a great strong jack point (i lifted a 4104 quite high on that edge and nothing compressed or anything. Elsewhere I really don't know, it would be helpful to know though. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1105 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.48.228  Rating: N/A |
There are steel plates that attach to the rear lower Air beams. You need a low profile 12 or 20 ton jack to get under the plates | ||
| William Sloan (Ole_timer)
Registered Member Username: Ole_timer Post Number: 15 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 71.10.35.154 Rating: N/A |
Do not jack on the inside of the front axel.It is hollow. Jack just next to were the axel turns up to the spindle,that part is solid.My 4104 manual warns about jacking in the center part of the axel. Good luck old Bill | ||
| Dan West (Utahclaimjumper)
Registered Member Username: Utahclaimjumper Post Number: 91 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 208.66.38.60 Rating: N/A |
They probably won't jack it, takes too much time, they usually use ramps or a pit, faster and easy on-off.>>>Dan | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 429 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.75.253 Rating: N/A |
An AXEL is a figure skating maneuver. An AXLE is found in a bus. FWIW G | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 637 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.37 Rating: N/A |
I always use the axles when possible, didn't know the front was hollow in the center but have never used it. As Patrick says the bulkhead just ahead of the front wheel is very strong. Everything forward of this bulkhead is a separate assembly attached after most of the body is constructed so I wouldn't ever jack there. I also use the bulkhead just ahead of the rear wheels. | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member Username: Pvcces Post Number: 1192 Registered: 5-2001 Posted From: 65.74.72.93 Rating: N/A |
Gus, are there any jacking plates on the rear air beams? While the bulkheads are strong, I wonder if that isn't a bit much for the rears. Our 4106 air beams have jacking plates right next to the rear air cans. For what it's worth. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1378 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.166.160  Rating: N/A |
Tom - No air beams on the 4106 and later GMC parlor coaches. FWIW & HTH. . .  | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 644 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.50 Rating: N/A |
Tom, Admittedly I kind of held my breath when I did it but didn't actually jack at the rear bulkhead. I placed some blocks there when the right rear bags were deflating quicker than the others for some reason so all the weight may not have been on the bulkhead. I've never supported both sides there but it appears to be pretty ruggedly built. My guess is that the bulkhead is very strong because it forms the front part of the upside down "L" structure from which hangs the engine. This must put a tremendous bending force on the top of the bulkhead. Haven't looked at the air beams. I would be afraid to trust them anyway after all the posts about them rusting out inside even though mostly they seem to rust at the top. | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member Username: Pvcces Post Number: 1194 Registered: 5-2001 Posted From: 65.74.72.93 Rating: N/A |
Hi, RJ. I realize that the beams that the air bags ride on do not have any air pressure in them. Somewhere along the line, I got the idea that they were still called air beams because of the air bags that ride on them. While I have no doubt that the coach with a true air beam can have a softer ride because of the increased volume in the air beams, I'm glad that we have not had to contend with the need to plate them off, as so many people have. Since we're on the subject, have you ever run across anyone who has added chambers to the rear air bags to soften their ride? I would think that it might be done, if a big enough air passage between the bag and chamber could be managed. Sorry about the mistaken name. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 646 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.36 Rating: N/A |
Tom, Having livedd with the 4104 air beams for a while I'm not convinced the ride is superior to a bags only system. The reason I say this is because it has what I call an "Ocean Liner" ride which means it wallows around quite a bit. On a high crown road or one with a bunch of dips it is downright uncomfortable and sometimes hard to steer. I'm actually looking forward to installing my plates to see the effect. I'm not looking forward to the work, however, since I've already experienced the thrill of installing new bags on the front!! | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member Username: Pvcces Post Number: 1195 Registered: 5-2001 Posted From: 65.74.72.93 Rating: N/A |
Gus, with Gabriel adjustable shocks set at medium, one swaybar and 100 psi in the tires, we have almost none of the wallowing effect that so many older, less well maintained buses come with. I would think you should get just about the same performance out of your 4104 if everything is right. I had the pleasure of moving a Bounder a short distance, and that was like pulling away from a dock in our boat. I don't think any bus could be like that. I didn't like it at all. For what it's worth. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 647 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.248 Rating: N/A |
Tom, I was carrying 90psi all around but increased the fronts to 100 for a while. It seemed too harsh to me so lowered them back to 90. I don't remember that much difference in the wallowing. Anti-sway bars may be the answer. Which end did you mount yours and where did you get it? My shocks were new when I got the bus two years ago but don't know what they are. Probably truck shocks as the PO worked in a truck repair shop. | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member Username: Pvcces Post Number: 1196 Registered: 5-2001 Posted From: 65.74.72.93 Rating: N/A |
Gus, the swaybar is stock on the 4106. It's in the rear. I also heard that a second swaybar could be ordered as an option for the front. I don't know how old the shocks on our coach were, but when we installed the Gabriels, the difference was very noticable. The funny part is that these shocks were about $65 each several years ago, which I thought was very reasonable. Also, I'm pretty sure those shocks are widely used on trucks. We got ours through Southern Oregon Diesel. For what it's worth. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 371 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.32.76 Rating: N/A |
Tom, if you ever need a shock Auto Zone sales that shock David uses $49.00 was the price for the last ones I bought Gabriel # 89425 (Message edited by luvrbus on May 08, 2008) | ||
| Douglas Wotring (Tekebird)
Registered Member Username: Tekebird Post Number: 332 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 71.59.75.212 Rating: N/A |
Gus, you got something wrong....an 04 in good shape does not wallow. Something is askew | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 651 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.140 Rating: N/A |
Wallow is probably a relative term since I've never driven anything with air suspension before. | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member Username: Pvcces Post Number: 1197 Registered: 5-2001 Posted From: 65.74.72.93 Rating: N/A |
Luvrbus, are you talking about Dave Gregory? I don't know the part number of the ones that we got, but if I get serious, I can find it, I thnk. We got those shocks about 6 years ago, and one of the rears is showing a bit of oil on the outside, so I wouldn't be surprised if we wind up replacing it. Thanks. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 376 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.32.76 Rating: N/A |
Yes, Tom I was talking about David Gregory he uses that shock on everything but I checked Auto Zone today and they are 51 bucks now the parts # is on the bottom of the shock on the barrel fwiw it's a great shock but doesn't work on the front of Eagles but works good on the driver and boogie (Message edited by luvrbus on May 09, 2008) |
