| Author | Message | ||
| Bob Ayers (Califbob)
Registered Member Username: Califbob Post Number: 53 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 4.243.167.180 Rating: N/A |
I'm reluctently thnking of selling my 5 MPG Prevost. Fuel is over $5.00 a gallon here in California. It's costing over $1.00 a mile to run the darn thing.I pull into a truck stop and put in $900.00 of fuel and don't even get a kiss. Do you guys think this is ever going to end? I can't emagin any body but\ying it ! | ||
| Moe Hollow (Moehollow)
Registered Member Username: Moehollow Post Number: 34 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 98.173.211.230 Rating: N/A |
I would guess that this is not a good time to sell. If you find it too costly to take long trips in, maybe you can take short ones. If that is not acceptable, I would still wait. We plan to take a few very short trips this summer. Otherwise, our visitors have been very happy using it as a guest house. I would think that this is a good time to sit on the fence and see what will happen. If the price of fuel is artificially inflated, it may still come down. Some acceptable alternate fuel may be just around the corner. Or you may discover you like visiting Mexico where diesel is around $250/gallon. I figure I can always take my loses later if that is what it comes to. | ||
| james dean boggs (Jd_boggs)
Registered Member Username: Jd_boggs Post Number: 127 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.102.27.26 Rating: N/A |
Bob, I know how you must feel. I have retired my other guzzler cars just so I can afford a bus trip now and then. I'm leaving on a trip to the Black Rock desert in northern Nevada on Monday (I live near Palm Springs CA). My budget is about $2,000 for fuel. For food I'll have to pull over and live off the land I guess! Maybe you can store your rig for now and see what happens after a political change. Don't sell just yet unless it cost too much for storage. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 373 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.197 Rating: N/A |
Do you guys think this is ever going to end? Not quickly since one political party will not "allow" drilling in 85% of the east and west coast, 65% of the Gulf of Mexico, Clean coal power , nuke power , shale oil conversion (we have 350% of Saudi Arabia oil) or the conversion of coal to oil (about $30a bbl).WE have about 200years worth at todays useage. While these folks take re election cash from the Greens with their "Close down America" mantra , fuel will stay high. They prefer mercury light bulbs and enriching millionaire farmers with even more $ubsadies , and gerbil power . How can we ask the Saudis to pump more when we have a 300+ year energy supply and "cant" use it? FF | ||
| James Robinson (Jjrbus)
Registered Member Username: Jjrbus Post Number: 135 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 70.10.57.143 Rating: N/A |
Rumor has it that the oil co's have access to millions of offshore acres that they are not drilling. They want the rest opened up so they can go in and cherry pick. The good old make as much as you can now, dont worry about tomorrow. I'm not 100% sure on this, but it sound like a oil co smoke screen. | ||
| John and Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 85 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 24.197.246.104  Rating: |
I won't try to disabuse anyone of your political viewpoints, but I really don't think it will make the difference of "two hoots in hell" which party gets in. They are all bought and paid for by the commercial interests that will continue to use the government to provide the best "bottom line" for their stockholders. When oil companies that are given tax breaks here are making record profit in the multi billions catagory, while we suffer trying to decide whether we can afford fuel enough to go see our kids this summer, something is wrong. Vote 'em all out and start over! | ||
| Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member Username: Dreamscape Post Number: 284 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 75.93.55.100  Rating: N/A |
Bob, I doubt selling right now would make you happy. A lot of folk are thinking the same thing. Take it out on some short trips and enjoy it! At least you know the bus you have. | ||
| Debbie and Joe Cannarozzi (Joe_camper)
Registered Member Username: Joe_camper Post Number: 100 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 71.239.202.82 Rating: N/A |
Letting it sit too much is just as bad if not worse that running it hard. Amazing how many nice campgrounds close to home we have discovered recently. | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 179 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.165.176.60  Rating: N/A |
We try to take ours out once a week just on a short trip to keep it exercised. Sometimes we will just fire it up and drive it to dinner | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1313 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.68.120.117  Rating: N/A |
If you are going to travel for multiple days, the bus still beats the car, restaurant and hotel thing, thus making it a good deal. If the price point is travel at yesterday's bus costs or not travel at all...well, then you have a decision to make. I'm always worried about whether the preventive maintenance is being kept up, if all the fleet's cash is going into the fuel tank. As noted, search out the lovely spots close to home, and run that bus, or it'll cost more to get it running tomorrow. happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Brian Elfert (Belfert)
Registered Member Username: Belfert Post Number: 73 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 71.34.55.162 Rating: N/A |
I'm trying to figure out how it takes $2,000 worth of fuel to get from Palm springs to the Black Rock desert. I'm heading from Minneapolis to the Black Rock desert in September and we are figuring $2,500 to $3,000 for fuel, but it is 4,000 miles round trip. The sad part is that we will spend $1000 more than last September for the same trip. We are trying to scrape together enough money for a rocket to launch at Black Rock and that $1000 would pay a good chunk of the rocket. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 376 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.25 Rating: N/A |
Rumor has it that the oil co's have access to millions of offshore acres that they are not drilling. OF COURSE !! Drilling is no longer required to locate oil, only Prove its there. All those millions of acres have been searched by a jumping rig that hops up and down creating sizemic waves. This saves tons of blasting . When no oil formations are found , who the heck WOULD drill there (besides a BuroRAT or Politico on a boondoggle with tax slaves cash)? Certainly not a drill spot for a profit making company. FF | ||
| john degemis (Degemis)
Registered Member Username: Degemis Post Number: 15 Registered: 3-2008 Posted From: 71.92.155.140  Rating: N/A |
I do not know when it will end. If it keeps going I will be glad to have my coach to live in even if its in the forest or at the beach. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1185 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9  Rating: N/A |
I do remember the oil shock in early 70's and gas lines, also the gas spike in early 80's. Everyone felt the same as now, but things moderated after a couple of years and everything adjusted up, including wages. Who knows whether this will happen this time. I can't see how this can go on for too much longer without major collapses in businesses and industry, especially with dollars going out of this country at an ever increasing rate. The other countries are starting to have protests over the price too. One concern I have is whether some of the anti US oil producing countries are lying about how much oil they are actually producing and actually cutting back without admitting it. you can read the hearing minutes below and form your own opinion about it.THIS IS MUST READING ABOUT $4.00 + GAL GAS. OUR SENATORS WERE GOING TO BEAT ON THE OIL CO'S BUT THEY ENDED UP WITH EGG ON FACE. THE UPSHOT IS: OUR GOVERNEMENT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MESS WE'RE IN RE ENERGY COSTS!! READ IT AND WEEP----AND WRITE TO SENATORS AND CONGRESSPERSONS. Some information to digest regarding the evil American oil companies. May 21, 2008 Earlier today, the Senate Judiciary Committee summoned top executives from the petroleum industry for what Chairman Pat Leahy thought would be a politically profitable inquisition. Leahy and his comrades showed up ready to blame American oil companies for the high price of gasoline, but the event wasn't as satisfactory as the Democrats had hoped. The industry lineup was formidable: Robert Malone, Chairman and President of BP America, Inc.; John Hofmeister, President, Shell Oil Company; Peter Robertson, Vice Chairman of the Board, Chevron Corporation; John Lowe, Executive Vice President, Conoco Philips Company; and Stephen Simon, Senior Vice President, Exxon Mobil Corporation. Not surprisingly, the petroleum executives stole the show, as they were far smarter, infinitely better informed, and much more public-spirited than the Senate Democrats. One theme that emerged from the hearing was the surprisingly small role played by American oil companies in the global petroleum market. John Lowe pointed out: I cannot overemphasize the access issue. Access to resources is severely restricted in the United States and abroad, and the American oil industry must compete with national oil companies who are often much larger and have the support of their governments. We can only compete directly for 7 percent of the world's available reserves while about 75 percent is completely controlled by national oil companies and is not accessible. Stephen Simon amplified: Exxon Mobil is the largest U.S. oil and gas company, but we account for only 2 percent of global energy production, only 3 percent of global oil production, only 6 percent of global refining capacity, and only 1 percent of global petroleum reserves. With respect to petroleum reserves, we rank 14th. Government-owned national oil companies dominate the top spots. For an American company to succeed in this competitive landscape and go head to head with huge government-backed national oil companies, it needs financial strength and scale to execute massive complex energy projects requiring enormous long-term investments. To simply maintain our current operations and make needed capital investments, Exxon Mobil spends nearly $1 billion each day. Because foreign companies and governments control the overwhelming majority of the world's oil, most of the price you pay at the pump is the cost paid by the American oil company to acquire crude oil from someone else: Last year, the average price in the United States of a gallon of regular unleaded gasoline was around $2.80. On average in 2007, approximately 58 percent of the price reflected the amount paid for crude oil. Consumers pay for that crude oil, and so do we. Of the 2 million barrels per day Exxon Mobil refined in 2007 here in the United States, 90 percent were purchased from others. Another theme of the day's testimony was that, if anyone is "gouging" consumers through the high price of gasoline, it is federal and state governments, not American oil companies. On the average, 15% percent of the cost of gasoline at the pump goes for taxes, while only 4% represents oil company profits. These figures were repeated several times, but, strangely, not a single Democratic Senator proposed relieving consumers' anxieties about gas prices by reducing taxes. The last theme that was sounded repeatedly was Congress's responsibility for the fact that American companies have access to so little petroleum. Shell's John Hofmeister explained, eloquently: While all oil-importing nations buy oil at global prices, some, notably India and China, subsidize the cost of oil products to their nation's consumers, feeding the demand for more oil despite record prices. They do this to speed economic growth and to ensure a competitive advantage relative to other nations. Meanwhile, in the United States, access to our own oil and gas resources has been limited for the last 30 years, prohibiting companies such as Shell from exploring and developing resources for the benefit of the American people. Senator Sessions, I agree, it is not a free market. According to the Department of the Interior, 62 percent of all on-shore federal lands are off limits to oil and gas developments, with restrictions applying to 92 percent of all federal lands. We have an outer continental shelf moratorium on the Atlantic Ocean, an outer continental shelf moratorium on the Pacific Ocean, an outer continental shelf moratorium on the eastern Gulf of Mexico, congressional bans on on-shore oil and gas activities in specific areas of the Rockies and Alaska, and even a congressional ban on doing an analysis of the resource potential for oil and gas in the Atlantic, Pacific and eastern Gulf of Mexico. The Argonne National Laboratory did a report in 2004 that identified 40 specific federal policy areas that halt, limit, delay or restrict natural gas projects. I urge you to review it. It is a long list. If I may, I offer it today if you would like to include it in the record. When many of these policies were implemented, oil was selling in the single digits, not the triple digits we see now. The cumulative effect of these policies has been to discourage U.S. investment and send U.S. companies outside the United States to produce new supplies. As a result, U.S. production has declined so much that nearly 60 percent of daily consumption comes from foreign sources. The problem of access can be solved in this country by the same government that has prohibited it. Congress could have chosen to lift some or all of the current restrictions on exportation and production of oil and gas. Congress could provide national policy to reverse the persistent decline of domestically secure natural resource development. Later in the hearing, Senator Orrin Hatch walked Hofmeister through the Democrats' latest efforts to block energy independence: HATCH: I want to get into that. In other words, we're talking about Utah, Colorado and Wyoming. It's fair to say that they're not considered part of America's $22 billion of proven reserves. HOFMEISTER: Not at all. HATCH: No, but experts agree that there's between 800 billion to almost 2 trillion barrels of oil that could be recoverable there, and that's good oil, isn't it? HOFMEISTER: That's correct. HATCH: It could be recovered at somewhere between $30 and $40 a barrel? HOFMEISTER: I think those costs are probably a bit dated now, based upon what we've seen in the inflation... HATCH: Well, somewhere in that area. HOFMEISTER: I don't know what the exact cost would be, but, you know, if there is more supply, I think inflation in the oil industry would be cracked. And we are facing severe inflation because of the limited amount of supply against the demand. HATCH: I guess what I'm saying, though, is that if we started to develop the oil shale in those three states we could do it within this framework of over $100 a barrel and make a profit. HOFMEISTER: I believe we could. HATCH: And we could help our country alleviate its oil pressures. HOFMEISTER: Yes. HATCH: But they're stopping us from doing that right here, as we sit here. We just had a hearing last week where Democrats had stopped the ability to do that, in at least Colorado. HOFMEISTER: Well, as I said in my opening statement, I think the public policy constraints on the supply side in this country are a disservice to the American consumer. The committee's Democrats attempted no response. They know that they are largely responsible for the current high price of gasoline, and they want the price to rise even further. Consequently, they have no intention of permitting the development of domestic oil and gas reserves that would both increase this country's energy independence and give consumers a break from constantly increasing energy costs. Every once in a while, Congress | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 378 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.55 Rating: N/A |
The first oil shock and rationing was ALSO an ignorant congress meddeling. The passed a law that they same percentages of the supply had to be distributed as had been done before rationing. Sounds fair BUT the public changed driving habits and refused to take long trips (RV's too) because of worries about obtaining fuel. So truck stops and super slab gas stations were awash with fuel ( Yes there were tankers off shore) waiting to fill full tanks, and the city folks panicked and lived off the top 1/10 of the tank , and wanted to refule after burning off 2 gallons , just to be sure. What ever congress touches is screwed up, they never learned from the collapse of the Soviet Union that central planning is unworkable. Yet they get re elected at a higher rate than the old Soviet Duma. FF | ||
| Moe Hollow (Moehollow)
Registered Member Username: Moehollow Post Number: 36 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 71.102.28.116 Rating: N/A |
James, I guess we are sort of neighbors. I'm over by Yucca Valley. We have found that there are several decent parks less than 100 miles from here like Idylwild, Beaumont, etc. and plan to do the one week here and there routine. We had thought to go to Four Corners but will put that off. Also, since we are in the high desert, there are several in the low desert that will make acceptable winter retreats. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 306 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 4.240.213.223 Rating: N/A |
FF..........  RCB | ||
| Bob Ayers (Califbob)
Registered Member Username: Califbob Post Number: 54 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 4.243.164.71 Rating: N/A |
WOW, John Roan you realy have a handle on the problem. Again I ask what can we do other than "vote out the bumbs"? I read some place we sould boycot all but one brand of fuel.but I thik all that would do is cause long lines at the one we decided to buy fuel from. Short trips! We have decided to do just that. I appreciate the ideas and I think I will hang on to my urban assult vehicle for a while longer. We belong to 1000 trails and there are some not to far from the Bay Area in Nor. CAl. By the way diesel fuel here in Fremont CA is $499.9. I'm an old retired truck driver and I recall when diesel was .13 per gallon!!! | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 614 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 66.217.101.181  Rating: N/A |
Re: "what can we do other than "vote out the bumbs"?" Why would -any- American company, pumping oil and refining it in this country, sell for less than the going amount? Why would "more oil wells" here - or "more refineries" here - make fuel cheaper? Does anyone really think -anyone- would sell a barrel of oil for less than the commodities market is willing to pay? The "war" is eating up oil like crazy, and -we all- use fuel in a wasteful manner; we're the largest user of oil in the world... If we want a lower price, we oughta' stop using as much as we do. No commodity buyer will buy futures in a product that isn't selling.... To make the fuel problem political, is a major cop-out. No political party is going to fix this mess, nor should they be allowed to. We are the major consumers, and it's up to us and no-one else, to drive home the notion that we will not accept the high price of fuel, and that we're willing to sacrifice everything else to bring the price down to what we can afford. Don't allow -anyone- to convince you that any specific political party can "fix" our fuel price problem; do not permit yourself to become a victim of political propaganda. | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1314 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.66.19.13 Rating: N/A |
Hmmm.. Wanting government to solve problems in the marketplace, ease the pain for the little guy, make things "more fair"... sounds counter to the values Americans like to say the nation is founded on. Which "isms" come to mind? well, come on now... a little tinkering here and there is ok, isn't it? careful what you wish for! signed: an offshore observer happy coaching! buswarrior (Message edited by buswarrior on June 15, 2008) | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 380 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.231 Rating: N/A |
And these folks that never even sold lemonaid want to seize the entire medical system , to aid their re-election chances!!! FF | ||
| Kevin Mossman (Ktmossman)
Registered Member Username: Ktmossman Post Number: 14 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 216.46.98.249 Rating: N/A |
There is a difference between demanding that politicians manipulate the system to try to "fix" it and demanding that they get themselves (and the environmentalist wackos) out of the way to allow the free market to work. I am all for the free market/supply and demand, but what we currently have is an artificial constraint on supply because of the restrictions on oil exploration and refinery construction. | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 281 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 69.77.151.47 Rating: N/A |
Come on, John. Surplus of supply ALWAYS makes prices come down. Look what happens to the prices of buses or houses when there are too many on the market. The last couple of times there were "perceived" shortages of oil the prices doubled. Coffee & other stuff the same way. True, it's not fair to blame one political party. It's the "not in my backyard" attitude of most Americans that gets drilling, producing & refining banned. The same people don't want jails, mental care facilities, airports, 4 lane roads or factories near them. But they sure enjoy the energy, products & services that someone else lives near! Lets make a law that energy has to be cunsumed/sold in the state it is produced in & see how the tree huggers change their tune. TX, LA & some others would be selling gas for $1.00 but FL, CA, NY & others would be dark & quiet! We desperately need to produce our own on shore energy AND refine it here too. We already have a gaggle of nuke power plants so there's no stuffing that genie back in the bottle, but we need to build new reactors with 30-40 year newer designs & safety technology to replace out of date ones and add multiple units at existing sites because Huggers can't whine "N.I.M.B.Y. when there is already one unit there. We could just use one of our Rhode Island sized military reserve areas to construct underground storage for spent fuel. Or, we could store it in Iran or Iraq as far as I'm concerned. What about all those caves in Afghanistan? Shoot, we could buy one of those countries & bring the 5 or 10,000 inhabitants remaining there (that aren't already living here!) over so there wouldn't be anyone left there to whine . | ||
| Stephen Fessenden (Sffess)
Registered Member Username: Sffess Post Number: 737 Registered: 1-2002 Posted From: 70.144.56.155 Rating: N/A |
This isn't the 70's. Prices are not going to come down much except near election time for a few weeks. The US consumer does not control the market anymore. There is China and India and the rest of the world. They don't need to lower prices to sell oil so they won't. It is only fears of an unstable US economy that may drive prices artificially low for a while. Unfortunately, these are the real prices. The good news is that in 5 to 10 years, inflation will have made $10/gallon seem affordable. Inflation will raise incomes of the working folks and those with diversified investments, so the money will be there to pay the price. Inflation should also raise the price of our Buses on resale if they are really nice looking conversions. My Prevost Conversion sold new in early 1982 for $262,000. (To the first owner). Current market value would computed by comparing it to $700,000 to $850,000 new conversions. I would wait and enjoy the coach a while and let the panic pass. If I did not have a home base, my coach would be economical to use on 200 mile and less hops at a time with long stays at each location. Since I have a home base to go back to everything is a round trip. I am staying in a nice motel for $236/week in Charleston, SC and drove a Prius here. It is a 1050 mile round trip. Bus: $966 (including 20 hrs of generator use) Prius $75. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 382 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.120 Rating: N/A |
Inflation should also raise the price of our Buses on resale if they are really nice looking conversions. AS the largest debtor in the world , the Gov no longer sees inflation creation as the panecea for every gov over spending problem. All the ex gov "employees", SS, retired military and inflation adjusted bonds take most of the bang out of the printing press. +3% or 4% inflation they like as it slowly destroys the value of past debts and the SS crowd loves an extra $40 -$50 a month. It will be a LOOOOng time before an '82 bus is going to be worth its new cost in paper FRN's. FF | ||
| Fred MacIsaac (Bassfid)
Registered Member Username: Bassfid Post Number: 20 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 205.157.206.27 Rating: N/A |
I imagine that the 350,000 barrels per DAY that the military is burning in Iraq & Afganistan would add to the world supply and decrease demand if not being used! |
