| Author | Message | ||
| Bob Hughes (2wheelbob)
Registered Member Username: 2wheelbob Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2008 Posted From: 207.118.48.61 Rating: N/A |
Hi folks. I’ve been lurking on this board for a few months, and got my login a few weeks back. I’ve spent time roaming through the archives and reading current threads. I’ve been doing a lot of reading here and elsewhere as I prepare to take the plunge into being a full-blown bus nut in full possession of a bus and in full loss of the otherwise sensible approach to life that I’ve spent 56 years developing. Rising gas prices, the cost of purchase and maintenance, and years of molding and fixing a bus into something I’ll always be working on. I got the picture and although that picture should’ve scared me away, it hasn’t. I’ve been fixed on this idea since the early 1970s when I first learned to drive busses (first Gillig and Crown school busses and later Eagle, GMC, and MCI charters). But there were other goals that had to be met and other dreams to follow. Even though I haven’t driven a bus since the late 70s, it’s time to follow this dream. I’m still doing my homework, but I’ve come to a crossroad where I need to make a decision on which direction to go. And while I’ve seen questions that are sort of like the one I have in the archives, I would really appreciate some advice that will help me make the decision. The question: Should I find a 35 foot GMC chassis (4106, 4107, 4108) or go with a later model MCI-9 or MCI96A2/3? That may seem like a strange set of choices, but I’ve narrowed to these choices for a few reasons. First, I really enjoyed driving the 4106s and buffalos that I drove in the early ‘70s. They were relatively easy to maneuver and they held the road. I also like the idea of a 35’ coach that I can get into national parks. Part of my dream is to spend extended months on the road, and my job allows me to do that. So I want options on where we can stay. It’s just my wife, two dogs, and me. So we don’t really need the extra five feet (yes, I’ve read the threads where folks argue that the five feet is nice to have). At the same time, I know that I don’t have the skills (or time to learn those skills) needed to constantly tinker with components like electrical systems or diesel engine repair. I’m reasonably adept at using tools and can turn wrenches as long as I know what I’m doing. But getting a coach that’s 40 years old may mean stretching my skills farther than the time I have to learn new skills. The alternative is to pay someone else, and that can get pricey. Then there’s the issue of available parts. While someone with skills can fabricate a solution while they’re on the road, I may not have some of those skills and could get stuck. So I’m concerned about the GMC busses because of their age and the amount of work they might need. That’s why I like the MCI-9 and MCI96A2/3. They are newer and have parts available more readily. While I’d prefer a 35’ coach, the MCIs are appealing because of their relatively newer ages. I understand that any bus that I get will have maintenance issues and needs. And I see getting a bus as a new phase of learning for me. I expect that I will learn more and more as I make modifications to whatever bus that I find, and this learning is part of the allure for me. But I also want to travel and don’t want to spend all of my time “learning.” That’s why I’m considering the MCIs. So what do you all think? I’d appreciate any and all thoughts, questions, comments, ideas, stories -- anything that’ll help me as I explore these two options. Thanks for taking the time to respond. Regards, Bob Hughes | ||
| John and Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 86 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 24.197.246.104  Rating: N/A |
Welcome to the wonderful world of "busnuts" Bob. We chose to combine what we thought was the best of both worlds you speak of and bought a MC5C. Not as old as the 4106's, but still only 35' long. We are still in the process of the conversion, so I can't really tell you how it is all going to work out, but we figure it will work for the two of us and the dogs. Good luck on your journey. John and Barb | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 388 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.238 Rating: N/A |
Either the power package is good or it isn't, the model of coach the package is mounted in doesn't matter for much. The lightest coaches will require the least amount of fuel out West in hill climbing, the sleekest (least frontal area) require the least fuel flat out on the flats. There is little electrical repair tinkering ( I have done NONE since the conversion) on the origional coach electrical systems , but of course the simpler the better. My Sportscar of Coaches has little but C-B and a couple of relays , so there is not a lot to wear out. Normal service like wheel bearings , brake adjustment and chassis lube are the same for most coaches. NOT having many maint items , Maxi Breaks ,"automatic" air supply dryers , power steering , slushpump, electric wipers ,and all the bells and whistles is not a problem , its a DELIGHT. KISS! Looking at the chassis electrical boxes on some of the newer coaches sez NO WAY to me. Happily the GM's at least have a fantastic manual that allows anyone with a $9.00 VOM to find any problem.And ALL the mechanicals are well covered, with good text and photos.With a parts book , not much cant be figured out. Just do the conversion in a similar style KISS is the goal, nothing that will take long to fix. Doesn't mean you cant have extras , central air , noisemaker , or garbage disposal, just to install them so you can either fix em or replace them with no effort. Basement air is down where you can get to it , a noisemaker should be on a slide , so you can maintain it. If your into the SIMPLEST conversion that can be done , come to Jacks next year , I'll stack it up against any conversion , for EZ to fix, and liveability. No Mexican Cat House lights tho.... And it might be for sale by then. FF | ||
| Glenn Williams (Glenn)
Registered Member Username: Glenn Post Number: 167 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 216.163.56.194  Rating: N/A |
Welcome Bob! I ended up asking some of the same questions as you - after my GMC 4905 Buffalo caught on fire. I was finding it more costly to get parts for the GMC, so after I sent it down the road, I went with an MCI. I was hoping to find at least an MCI 8 or 9, but I found a MCI 7 locally, loaded with conversion pieces, re-skinned with rv windows, new engine and tranny etc.. and bought it. I have found it easy to get parts for and it had not been butchered or rusted. I'm very happy! Don't forget in your decision making process to think about what kind of storage your lifestyle demands. The Buffallo's had the biggest bays until recently. I miss that. MCI 7's aren't bad, but the GMC's were HUGE! If you go to the 4905's, look for rust problems. They used steel in the body for the extra strength. The 35 ft buffalo's were all aluminum (I think!). Welcome to the madness! Glenn | ||
| Laryn Christley (Barn_owl)
Registered Member Username: Barn_owl Post Number: 456 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 151.199.105.235  Rating: |
I agree with FF, a well taken care of 40 yr old bus is easier to deal with than a new bus that had the crap run out of it. The problems with the hard to find parts on older coaches have been addressed mostly by aftermarket venders or there are other solutions that can be employed to get around the problem. I have found that the 4106 is a well engineered bus that is very simple and easy to work on. If you call NIMCO in N.J. you will find that the prices on the GM parts are less expensive than the other makes. Mostly in part to the abundance of transit buses that use the GM layout. For example I replaced my tired power steering setup with a good take out from NIMCO. Pump, reservoir, steering box, tie rod and ends, hoses (I bought new) and one days worth of work for under $500. I am finding most of the stuff I need is still being made. I am going to replace my rear air relay valve today. I bought the valve locally for $40. I don’t mean to sound like a 4106 salesman, you will not go wrong with a good MCI, but many of the concerns of an older coach are really no big deal, look at all of the 4104s still out there. One advantage of any GM bus is they are hands down the least expensive conversion one can buy. No matter which direction you go you picked a good time to be a buyer. Good luck, Laryn | ||
| J.L.Vickers (Roadrunnertex)
Registered Member Username: Roadrunnertex Post Number: 39 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 71.51.60.171 Rating: |
I am a GMC P8M4905A owner. I have had this coach for over 15 years and I have always found any parts that I have ever needed. The GMC's in the era they were built was way ahead of other makes of the same year make. I have had the chance to buy a later model MC-9 but after looking at both buses I said better keep the old Buffalo. Don't let any one tell you that the MCI equipment won't rust above the floor line. I have seen some MC-8's and 9's that were nothing but rusted out frame work. Just be very careful of what you buy and look at the coach with a good bus mechanic. It's to late to say now I bought it and look what I have found! Hope this helps. jlv | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 686 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.201 Rating: N/A |
Consider the 4104, lots of them made and all Al so they don't have a lot of the rust issues of 4106 and later. A bunch of them have been converted to 8V71s and Allison AT which is probably better than the 4-SPs which are not geared properly. I don't see a lot of difference between a 4104 and 4106 in size and looks. You may not like a DD671 but they get you there with the least fuel burn. My guess is that they drive about the same as a 4106 with less pep. I doubt that you will find any old bus that won't require a lot of maintenance especially if you are new at ownership and don't know all the pitfalls to look for. Most of us had to learn via the school of hard knocks! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to maintain these oldies because most are pretty simple. The newer you get the more complex they get. If you have basic mechanical skill you can learn the rest. The main thing is to get all the manuals and stay glued to the busnuts boards. I don't think I could have made it without the manuals and these boards. | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 246 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 96.246.18.200  Rating: N/A |
Hey Bob welcome to the insanity, if nothing has scared you off so far you will do fine. I have to agree also about all the nice GM conversions out there just remember you will probably get what you pay for. I also like John 's idea about the MCI 5 units. I dont like the 3 axle coaches for alot of reasons and the 35' buses are user friendly. What Fred is telling you is you dont have to drag all the bells and whistles (crap that costs $ and is expensive to maintain)around with you unless that is what you need or makes you happy. Be aware that the 35' MCI's come with different power packs 6V-71's and 8V-71's and various transmissions. Alot of the older model coaches are nice in that they were built to be repaired not thrown away. We just got back from Fla in a 1947 GM and only had the usual (for us) issues. Its slow, its hot without a gen set running and you stop!, its not very fast,and we had to adjust the brakes as they got hot N of Atlanta, and its slow. The wow factor cannot be denied on an old bus. If you need a larger bus go ahead and get a 3 axle MCI but think about what you want to do with your bus and where you can keep it if thats an issue. Go to the rallies and check out every bus you see and listen to the the old timers they have seen it and been where you are now. Good luck | ||
| Douglas Wotring (Tekebird)
Registered Member Username: Tekebird Post Number: 367 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 71.59.75.212 Rating: N/A |
Bob, I have Two 4108's for sale that are probably among the nicest GM's out there, also have a MCI 96A3 I'm located in PA and you can contact me at tekebird@yahoo.com or 717-579-1772 | ||
| Bob Hughes (2wheelbob)
Registered Member Username: 2wheelbob Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2008 Posted From: 207.118.44.21 Rating: N/A |
Thanks, folks, for all the replies. John and David, I'd looked at the MCI-5s, but I read some information about them being prone to rust. So I put them off my list. Fred, Laryn, and Gus, I hadn't thought about the simple vs. complex issue that attaches to new and old. Actually, I've warned my wife that when our current vehicles die (the most recent is her 2003 Subaru), I'm looking for cars that I can work on myself -- read that as pre-1975. I hadn't thought to consider the same issue about busses. Glenn, thanks for the info on 4905s. I haven't seen that discussed anywhere, and I'll be certain to look if that's the direction I go. J.L, thanks for the warning on MCIs rusting. Doug, I'll send you a note off line about what you have for sale. If anyone thinks of anything else, please continue to post. I'll keep monitoring this thread until it fades. Thanks again to all who took the time. I look forward to future interactions. Regards, Bob | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 68 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.203.73.54 Rating: N/A |
Don't be so quick to write off the MCI 5's. Like any other brand some have rust and some don't. I just saw a Prevost that has rust. Decide what size works best for you and then look at as many buses that size no matter what the brand until you find the one you want. Good luck and have fun | ||
| Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member Username: Doninwa Post Number: 129 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 208.81.157.90  Rating: N/A |
Five foot-itiss. We sufferered with the boating version of this illness know as two foot-itiss. Went from a 19 to a 21 to 24 to a 26 and finally to a 30'. The 30 has been the least used one of all. Our first bus is a 35' ex-college T-drive bus. Real different rig, air brakes, spring suspension, stainless sides, gas engine, skoolie roof, ect. I've been know to park in a regular lot when there are end to end car spots with room to maneuver. We like some of the more out of the way places and the 35 footer has served us well. We tried real hard to avoid the five foot-itiss when we started shopping for the new bus. We will give up a little maneuverability because of longer wheelbase and less ground clearance of the 4107. With the huge bays and better gas mileage we hope it was the right choice. Only time will tell. How you plan/think you will use the bus is important. Good luck Don 4107 | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1390 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.166.160  Rating: N/A |
Ed - Was the Prevost that had the rust issues the one that was for sale at Bus'n USA last weekend? I didn't look at it, but did see it. Not Dave Gregory's, that other one. . . Bob - Check your private email for a message. FWIW & HTH. . .  | ||
| Jim Rink (Fakeguy)
Registered Member Username: Fakeguy Post Number: 95 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 70.61.17.52  Rating: N/A |
Bob...I bought a 4106 4 years ago and cannot begin to tell you how much I had to learn. Fortunately, I have a cousin who camps next to our year-round spot who has been a real hero in helping me. He is mechanically experienced, very good at figuring things out and has as much heart into the old horse as the wife and I. Anyway...it will be an adventure with all the agony and ecstacy built right in. I cannot say enough good things about the folks on this board and people like Luke from US COACH. The parts and help are available. Jump right in although the water is a bit chilly at times. Note; While I admire the other coaches I see, I am pretty much stuck on my 06 | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 780 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.3.173.51  Rating: N/A |
Bob, Regardless of what make or model you decide on, have it inspected by a knowledgeable bus person before you purchase it. Even if you pay a few hundred for the inspection, this will be the best money you will spend as a bus owner. Jack | ||
| Bob Hughes (2wheelbob)
Registered Member Username: 2wheelbob Post Number: 3 Registered: 5-2008 Posted From: 207.118.43.188 Rating: |
RJ, Jim, and Jack, Thanks for the advice and contacts. It's good to hear that there are good folks out there. There are plenty of enough shysters to avoid, so it's nice that there might be some folks out there who believe in honest and fair service. And, yes, absolutely, I won't be buying any bus without a thorough professional inspection of the systems, frame, appliances, etc. to complement my own limited knowledge. As for the people on this board. I'm already impressed from the postings and offline support they've already provided. Thanks, again. Bob | ||
| Roger Baughman (Roger)
Registered Member Username: Roger Post Number: 18 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 75.18.113.191 Rating: N/A |
Hi Bob: If you are interested in a MCI-5, I have a 1979 35 foot for sale, for $4,000.00 It has a 6v71 rebuilt engine and a Allision automatic transmission. The body is in pretty good shape and most of the seats have been removed. If you can give mea e-mail address I will send you a lot of pictures of it. I am in The San Diego area. Thanks, Roger | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 398 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.55 Rating: N/A |
"Even if you pay a few hundred for the inspection, this will be the best money you will spend as a bus owner." On boats this is known as a Survey , and any boat worth more than a few grand is surveyed BEFORE purchase. As there are bus nuts have a varied background some can give an opinion , most shouldn't. Safest is to first go to the local small charter service , and talk to the owner. He has a lift or pit and IF he has experience with the intended purchase coach series , youre half way home. IF it passes chassis / foundation survey with a good DOT style look under, the next stop is the DD garage that has a chassis dynomometer. Another $100 "invested" will let you know if she is a keeper. Probably hard advice to follow on a $10,000 or $20,000 coach which may not even have plates , but really necessary before going over $50K . And at $100K having the RV electrical looked at by a knowledgable electrical person , and the instalation of the other RV systems is a wise idea. FF | ||
| Bob Hughes (2wheelbob)
Registered Member Username: 2wheelbob Post Number: 4 Registered: 5-2008 Posted From: 71.255.168.219 Rating: N/A |
Fred, Your comments are directly in line with what I've been thinking I'll do. Thanks for confirming. And, oh yeah, I chuckled at your "cat house lights" in the previous post. I thought I was the only one who called them that. I guess different tastes for different people, but I'll definitely be skipping the row lights and mirrors (and velvet wall coverings, etc.) in whatever coach I'll end up with :-) Roger, look in your e-mail. Thanks. Bob |
