| Author | Message | ||
| John Elnitski (Ski43)
Registered Member Username: Ski43 Post Number: 17 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.58.59.233 Rating: N/A |
I installed an Iota idp240 breaker box in my bus, which will be powered by shore power or Gen set. I did not get any instructions with it as I bought it on ebay. Do I need to run a ground line from the ground bus bar of the breaker box to the bus frame | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 733 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 67.142.130.38  Rating: N/A |
Yes. Iota (and the NEC) specifies that an 8-gauge ground wire be attached to the ground bus directly from the chassis frame. There should be a hole in the plastic case adjacent to the ground bar for exactly this purpose. Note that the NEC requires this wire to be either bare copper, or insulated with continuous green insulation, with or without yellow stripe. BTW, I could not find the manual for the IDP-240, but you might find this manual, for the similar Iota IDP-30 panel, to be of some help: www.iotaengineering.com/pplib/idp30.pdf HTH, -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (Message edited by sean on July 20, 2008) (Message edited by sean on July 20, 2008) | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 500 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.75.253 Rating: N/A |
John, Look in the archives, as this has been kicked around for years! Then connect the GROUND bus to the bus frame with at least #6 copper stranded wire, then, please read on. The correct and relatively simple answer is that the ground can only be at the power source. I trust you know the difference between the ground and the neutral bus bars? You mentioned an inverter in a previous post, so this complicates things somewhat. Some inverters have transfer switches which will accomplish this function, some don't. THE GROUND FOR SHORE POWER IS THE [campground]METER PANEL! The ground and neutral can not be connected together anywhere except at the power source. Your power source is either the gen, inverter, or shore, depending upon which one is supplying power at the time. This will set it off again, for which I will apologize in advance, as there are no dumb questions. I will have to play with my train set before morning, so let's see how many comments appear before Wed! We have several WELL qualified electrical people here, who hopefully will cover my backside while I'm gone! Good luck, George | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 501 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.75.253 Rating: N/A |
John, You've heard from one of the best already, even before I could finish mine. G | ||
| John Elnitski (Ski43)
Registered Member Username: Ski43 Post Number: 18 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.58.59.233 Rating: N/A |
can I tie the grounds from the 110 breaker box and the inverter together and then proceed to the frame | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 413 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 65.160.122.70 Rating: |
can I tie the grounds from the 110 breaker box and the inverter together and then proceed to the frame The question then becomes how do you UNTIE them if you either install an inverter or noisemaker. FF | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 503 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.75.253 Rating: N/A |
John, Please don't take offense at this, but it appears to me, (and the previous poster) that you have painted yourself into a corner of a second floor room, and are about to climb out the window onto a tree limb in order to reach your bus. The problem is that there is a tree trimmer cutting on your limb near the trunk! First off, Sean gave you an exactly correct answer to a specific question, and as usual, provided a whole lot of research! Secondly, in my previous post, I mentioned the difference between neutral and ground bus bars, and you didn't reply in the affirmative. This begins to scare me. It scares Fred also, as he just asked " ...how do you UNTIE them if you either install an inverter or noisemaker (generator)?" From your previous posts on this and the battery cable sizing post, it looks like you have a 24V bus, 12V house batteries with no OTR charging, a 12V QUASI sine wave inverter, and a 12/120V distribution panel, Six 6 Volt batteries, and plan on running a generator OTR so you arrive with the house batts charged? (AKA, a cat and a dog in a gunny sack.) IN MY OPINION, this is a recipe for unhappiness and trouble, not to mention downright dangerous in the direction you are heading! If you had four or eight 6 Volt batts, or 2 or 4 12s, you could add a solenoid and get OTR charging, an equalizer and a 24V inverter would HALVE the cable size requirements of a 12 Volt inverter. The suggestion of a 1 wire 12V alt is a good fix for your present situation. Now you need more fixes! As I posted previously, GROUND AND NEUTRAL CONNECTIONS MUST ONLY OCCUR AT THE POWER SOURCE. You have indicated that you will have 3 power sources, gen, shore, and inverter, which means you must have automatic transfer switching to switch the ground and neutral to to the source supplying power only! A second ground to neutral conection is deadly, as it will result in the entire frame of the bus being energized when some kind of failure or damage occurs, either in your bus, or in the campground. Quasi sine wave inverters are indeed cheap, because they are not pure sine wave, and will not run some computer equipment, etc. If your inverter does have an automatic transfer switch from battery to shore operation, and it switches ground and neutral as well, then you will have to put another transfer switch in the line first, to transfer from gen to shore. Most generators have the neutral and ground bonded together internally, which makes the SECOND ground while you are on either shore or inverter. As you have a hot(s), neutral, and ground wire in your shore cable, and those wires are run all the way back thru the campground to its main panel, where the neutral and ground are bonded, when you inadvertently connect the neutral and ground inside your bus, you have connected the whole campground neutral and ground together inside your bus! The second reason a quasi sine wave inverter is cheap is because you will now have to buy and wire in a bunch of 3 or 4 pole transfer switching, or cords and plugs, to make it work properly. We have to be careful of slang, North America converted away from 110V at least 70 years ago. Your panel is rated 120V, and I say this because there are inverters for auction which are rated 220V. They are cheap too, because they are for 50Hz European current, and aren't really useful on a North American bus. Single phase North American voltage is 120/240 only. Sorry to rain on your campfire, and I don't enjoy jumping on people, or saying it can't be done, yours can, its just going to take a lot more stuff. Whew, G | ||
| John Elnitski (Ski43)
Registered Member Username: Ski43 Post Number: 19 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.58.59.233 Rating: N/A |
Sorry about the confusion, I am running the ground from the 110 box to the chassis ground of the inverter not the ground wire in the inverter and then onto the frame from the inverter chassis. |
