| Author | Message | ||
| Roger Baughman (Roger)
Registered Member Username: Roger Post Number: 20 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 75.18.113.191 Rating: N/A |
I have a question I hope someone can answer. I have a 1984 MCI with a 8V71 that has an oil type air cleaner. Can I replace the oil air cleaner with a regular KN TYPE air cleaner and for a pick up truck, maybe install two together for more air? I was thinking it would be easer to service and might alow more air into the engine and give me more horse power for the hill climing. I would like your thoughts on this. Thanks Roger | ||
| JC Alacoque (Jc_alacoque)
Registered Member Username: Jc_alacoque Post Number: 70 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.45.68.242 Rating: N/A |
I'm still using the oil bath air cleaner on my 4-71 DD. This is with a turbo. The engine went from sucking about 800 CFMs natural to about 1200 CFMs with the turbo. I have a "filter minder" vac. gauge on it that shows around 18" water column of restriction. The DD service manual says 24" max. Of course these numbers will be different for a 8V71, you have to look them up in Da Book. Once as an experiment, I ran it with the air filter disconnected, and did not feel a great difference in power. That's only the seat of the pants "dyno", but nothing compelling me to go to dry filter. Your Mileage May Vary. JC | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 182 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 209.50.72.2 Rating: N/A |
Roger Most guys gut the oil bath and depending on your housing you can get a paper element that will fit. Get the dimensions you need and go to a Napa or similar type of store and they have books with all the sizes. Major plus is no messy oil bath to clean. Bill | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 424 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.195 Rating: N/A |
Replaced the 4 oil baths on my Sportscar with K&N and never looked back. THe advantage of being able to clean , rather than toss the filter is great. No telling as we drive (like in CanaDA) weather much of the roads will be paved or potholes and miles of dirt. Loads cheaper to keep a clean/oil kit aboard than pay "local" prices. FF | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 490 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.32.91.93 Rating: N/A |
to each his own about the K&N filters but I know of 3 8v92's destroyed by that filter and DD will not warranty any of their engines that uses the K&N filters.You can always buy the ECO system at Napa the self contained unit.FWIW Amsoil makes a cleanable filter called the EA filter system if you want a cleanable filter (Message edited by luvrbus on August 05, 2008) (Message edited by luvrbus on August 05, 2008) | ||
| Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member Username: Doninwa Post Number: 134 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 208.81.157.90  Rating: |
Fred, do yo think that the K&Ns clean as well as an oil bath or Donaldson type paper element? I have always thought that the increased flow of K&Ns was at the expense of really good filtering. I could not find any other element to fit my old bus without cutting into the engine cover when I changed from the old Stromberg to a Holley carb so I run a K&N filter. Unfortunately no foam cover for it. The only other one I used I ran the secondary foam cover on. Thanks, Don 4107 | ||
| Austin Scott Davis (Zimtok)
Registered Member Username: Zimtok Post Number: 273 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 216.37.73.226 Rating: |
You need to do some searching on the internet about studies done on air filters. I remember seeing a study that showed the air flow, filtering ability, ect... In short The K&N allowed the best flow when new but quickly went down hill as it clogged up faster then standard paper filters. Several paper filters were in the study that had varying results also. They also had come comments on what size dirt particles can go through your negine without any effect. I don't remember if they tested an oil bath system against the other filters. I do seem to remember several times over the years comments that the oil bath air filtering system was always the best at traping dirt. I like my oil bath filters and intend on keeping them. | ||
| Laryn Christley (Barn_owl)
Registered Member Username: Barn_owl Post Number: 495 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 153.2.246.33  Rating: N/A |
Will this help? http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=788.0 | ||
| John Lacey (Junkman42)
Registered Member Username: Junkman42 Post Number: 52 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 66.82.9.61  Rating: N/A |
I want to give You My observation. I have many old classic tractors, I also have modern tractors. When cleaning the oil gath filters they always have a large quantity of sludge in the oil pan. When I take a modern paper filter out it never has the quantity of sand and garbage in it that the oil bath filters do. I used to run K&N filters in My ford powerstrokes and decided that they trapped more junk than the original filters did. For severe service ford sells a heavy duty filter assy that is made by dondalson. I prefer anything that has oil to trap dirt. My two cents, not worth much more. John | ||
| Mark Renner (Boomer)
Registered Member Username: Boomer Post Number: 105 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 75.216.247.160  Rating: N/A |
I recommend the Donaldson ECO series. When I had a hopped up 6V in mine I researched the flow ratings and bought one with the highest rating. In a motorhome application it will last years. You can modify your bands, or buy new to match. Don't forget to install a service indicator; this is a sealed one piece unit. | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 491 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.32.91.93 Rating: N/A |
I have used the ECO system in my Eagle since 1994 didn't like the price at first but now I would never change back to another system | ||
| Moe Hollow (Moehollow)
Registered Member Username: Moehollow Post Number: 43 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 66.82.162.10 Rating: N/A |
I read a comparison study but I do not have the link. Oil baths came out best except at idle. It seemed they need a level of air flow to do their best job. Paper filters were dependent on the manufacturer. Some came reasonably close to oil bath. As I remember, NAPA filters did alright. K&N filters did not do well. They may have had flow advantages when clean, but they did not filter well. I have had one in the past, but would not use one again. Further, I would be careful about buying a vehicle where the PO boasted that he had used one for a long period of time. | ||
| quantum merlin (Quantum500)
Registered Member Username: Quantum500 Post Number: 42 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.33.238.169 Rating: N/A |
The proof of just how bad a K&N filter is at filtering is a pretty easy test. Get ahold of a good clean one and hold it up to the sun. You can see direct light through it! That means that any particle big enough to see can and will get through that filter. Not good! If you have a race car and run on clean pavement all the time and take things apart a lot to check conditions not a bad choice. Any other use is highly suspect to ruining internal parts at a accelerated rate. The old oil bath filters may be heavy and messy but as far as performance they pretty much take the cake. The only reason they do not use them in new application is initial cost and environmental concerns. I'd keep the oil bath just make sure you have oil in it and all is well. One big bonus is you will never have to buy a filter! That might be part of the reason they aren't used anymore either. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 425 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.10 Rating: N/A |
I'd keep the oil bath just make sure you have oil in it and all is well. The problem with the old oil bath sparrow strainers is a very HIGH velocity is required to plunk the chunk of grit into the oil. Most of the "filtering" is because the chunk cant make the U turn well, and hopefully gets stuck in the oil at the bottom. AT campground or other dirt road speeds the "fines' are light enough, and the air stream slow enough that not much filtering is done. Fine on the super slab (except in TX dust storms) , but leaving a bunch to be desired for a RV. Most of the Baja racers I have seen run K&N , for their filtering ability. The simple service required to maintain their filtering ability does not seem a problem , for folks with engines that cost 100 times ours. Like all advertising , the paper folks come out best in THEIR adds, And all other setups come out best in THEIR adds,. Were now over 100,000 miles with K&N and the engine compression (as judged by start up smoke when really cold ) hasn't changed a bit. And thats after mucho NON highway driving . If you can see through a K&N it needs to be re oiled!Follow Da Book. FF | ||
| Jack Campbell (Blue_goose)
Registered Member Username: Blue_goose Post Number: 98 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 71.100.201.35  Rating: N/A |
I have used K&N for about 10 years. Lots more air flow than paper filter and like Fred said follow the book and oil it like you should. Witch the gague to see when you need to clean and reoil. Jack | ||
| quantum merlin (Quantum500)
Registered Member Username: Quantum500 Post Number: 43 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 67.41.221.134 Rating: N/A |
Fast Fred you need to check with the all the dirt bikers and get a good opinion. The opinion I have gotten repeatedly is "No bueno!" They just are not good filters for heavy dust conditions especially the silt that is found in Baja. Please elaborate on the filter usage in baja by someone that is not sponsored by K&N. I'm throwing the BS flag. They may be alright over oiled, but with the recommended oil cover they are very near the worst. If you insist on a high flow filter try and find a foam instead of cotton. I'm still going to say an oil bath is about the best if you can deal with the maintenance and weight. The very best test for filtration that I have ever found is to put a big glob of grease somewhere in the intake after the filter. That way when you service the filter you can pull of the very top layer of grease and rub it between you fingers to check for grit. The K&N is right on par with a non-seated foam. That is from many years of experience with dirt bikes in very dirty conditions. | ||
| David Lower (Dave_l)
Registered Member Username: Dave_l Post Number: 39 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 69.196.133.195  Rating: N/A |
Hi all I Have oil bath filters on my MC7, IH combine and tractor, and IH truck and they work great. I have no signs of dirt geting past them, and you know how much dust farm machines kick up. keep them clean and you should have no problems. If you are on the road and feel the need to clean them stop at a local garage see if they will wash them in there parts wash tub, dry them then add fresh oil to the bowl and be on your way. Dave L | ||
| Terry Batchelor (Batchelorpad)
Registered Member Username: Batchelorpad Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2008 Posted From: 97.102.165.178 Rating: N/A |
I have a dry cleaner that I'd like to get rid of. It is for a 318 DD & has the element and mounting brackets. I can email a pic. 31'' X 16" diam. |
