| Author | Message | ||
| Andy Wright (Wrightwy)
Registered Member Username: Wrightwy Post Number: 32 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 75.216.110.209 Rating: N/A |
Hey Fella's. I have a ?. Iam redoing the plumbing in our 68 model 05 and while removing all the copper pipe from the system Iam wondering if having the black water tank in the middle of the rails over the fuel tank is a good Idea.I have 125 gal holding tanks for fresh 110 for gray and 145 for black.The position of the F/G tanks is such that if I have a problem with Black I have to remove both tanks.Any thoughts on this would be great, Iam I worring for nothing. Also Iam looking for Ideas and pic of fresh water systems, Iam trying to make it as simple as possible.Iam posting a pic of what I have now . Thanks for your help Andy | ||
| John and Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 93 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 24.197.246.104  Rating: |
Andy,I am pretty new to this conversion process, as I am working on my first one now. I was told however that you should have approx. twice as much gray water storage as black and that the two together should at least be equal to the amount of freshwater available. I am sure that "bigger is better" when it comes to storage, but it seems like 145 gals of black water would be several months worth of storage? Maybe somewhat smaller tanks would be easier to find a place for. Just my 2 cents worth from what I have been told. | ||
| James Robinson (Jjrbus)
Registered Member Username: Jjrbus Post Number: 147 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 68.242.112.217 Rating: N/A |
Everybody does a conversion "thier way" Some things make perfect sense, some dont but worked well for the previous owner. For me personnaly I would downsize the waste tanks. or have a combined black/grey with a greywater bypass. My vote is for the combined black/grey/grey water bypass, but that works well for me. | ||
| john degemis (Degemis)
Registered Member Username: Degemis Post Number: 22 Registered: 3-2008 Posted From: 68.113.38.16  Rating: N/A |
Wow that is a lot of blackwater. It seams large enof for both gray and black. If you were to empty your fresh water into your gray/black tanks plus a little more from basicly what you add in the tolet you should be ballanced.You dump and fill at the same stop. How you use your rig is important. Some people dry dock and need more storage. But I would want more fresh,if I were dry docking.If you have a gray water bypass you can drain your gray water on the ground in some places(check park rules)it is good for the plants. If you stay at full hook up parks you do not need much. I only fill my fresh water if I will be out water supply for more than a day. Less wieght less diesel used. | ||
| Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member Username: Doninwa Post Number: 138 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 208.81.157.90  Rating: N/A |
Our first bus has a combined gray/black tank with zero problems. Less complicated and less potential leaks. Can't say that about the S&S units we used before with separate tanks. One clogged up black tank is all it takes to make a one tank believer out of you. If I read your question right it sounds like you might be thinking about putting the black tank above/higher than the gray. I would always want the gray above or at least equal to the black tank to allow flushing the black with gray water. And as others said a way to connect the gray and black tanks if one is full. Good luck Don 4107 | ||
| Andy Wright (Wrightwy)
Registered Member Username: Wrightwy Post Number: 33 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 75.216.53.196 Rating: N/A |
Well the black tank is higher it's between the rails above the fuel tank. looking at my fresh water tank I think the black is smaller. I think Iam going to leave the the tanks as they are for now and just redo the water lines.I think am openning a can of worms . thanks for all your help. | ||
| Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member Username: Dreamscape Post Number: 311 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 75.93.55.100  Rating: N/A |
Hi Andy, How are you doing? In our Eagle a PO installed one 100 fresh with one 100 black/gray. I like the idea of mixing the black/gray, makes it easier to remove the solids. It also has a gray bypass for dumping onto the ground. Paul | ||
| Andy Wright (Wrightwy)
Registered Member Username: Wrightwy Post Number: 34 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 70.192.178.210 Rating: N/A |
Hey Paul, Iam afraid of digging into this and messing with what all ready is working, My concern is the location of the black tank. It's betweenthe rails on top of the fuel tank. If I ever have a problem with it I have to tare out both of the other tanks. and Iam into it now and trying to decide what to do. If I use the gray for black then Iam rerouting all my drains. I guess it depends how deep I want to go .Thanks Andy | ||
| David Lower (Dave_l)
Registered Member Username: Dave_l Post Number: 45 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 69.196.133.195  Rating: N/A |
Hi if I read Paul's coment rite I think he is refering to a tank with two seperate chambers instead of having two seperate tanks.But I do have a related question? Is there a tank available that is like a septic tank where the solids go to the bottom and the liquid flows over a baffle into the second part with a flapper valve to stop the liquid from sloshing back into the solid side. Thanks. Dave L | ||
| James Robinson (Jjrbus)
Registered Member Username: Jjrbus Post Number: 148 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 68.242.112.217 Rating: N/A |
Andy, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. You may never have to touch it. | ||
| Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member Username: Dreamscape Post Number: 312 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 75.93.55.100 Rating: N/A |
David, We have one tank for black/gray. Not sure if it's chambered or baffled, I didn't install it. It looks like an round old aluminum fuel tank. I did notice it sure emptied fast when I dumped. If I was to do it over I still would combine them. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 434 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.47 Rating: N/A |
Your holding tanks are sized for 2 or 3 months of boondockin. Do you plan on that lifestyle? The end of the world or? Remember all that weight needs to be hunped up every hill,and slowed on the otther side. Is that volume in tanks the "best" use of very limited bay space? FF | ||
| Andy Wright (Wrightwy)
Registered Member Username: Wrightwy Post Number: 35 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 70.192.191.117 Rating: N/A |
Thanks all , Iam going to leave it as is , I like having the extra fresh water as I use it for my mister in the avent of overheating, I have a misting system. But rather than pull all that out just to replace it seem unwarnted. Anyway thanks for all your help Andy | ||
| Debbie and Joe Cannarozzi (Joe_camper)
Registered Member Username: Joe_camper Post Number: 109 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 71.239.202.82 Rating: N/A |
We have only 2 tanks, both stainless. 125 fresh and ONE 150 gal holding. Doesn't get much simpler than that. This is the first camper we have owned without separate grey and holding tanks and initially I was concerned. It has proven to be a non issue. I added a grey water by-pass for potentially easier long term boon docking but never had to use it yet. | ||
| Debbie and Joe Cannarozzi (Joe_camper)
Registered Member Username: Joe_camper Post Number: 110 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 71.239.202.82 Rating: N/A |
On a side note I also saw a guy flushing his toilet with Grey water saving both fresh water as well as a better way to deal with the grey. Is this gross or am I weird to think this is a good Idea. Has anyone else seen this? Thank you in advance. | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 261 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 72.12.39.78  Rating: N/A |
Joe wrote "On a side note I also saw a guy flushing his toilet with Grey water saving both fresh water as well as a better way to deal with the grey. Is this gross or am I weird to think this is a good Idea. Has anyone else seen this?" Joe, I considered this but I became unconvinced. Grey water has a wide bacterial fauna as does black but they're different. It's certainly OK to mix them in a single holding tank but I'm not so sure about mixing them in an "area that's public", i.e. in an area where smells and vapors are out in your bus, even in an enclosed area such as a head. Also, grey water has different types of soap chemicals that have already been mixed with other compounds. Between the mix of mostly basic stuff and it's possible effect on seals and rubber parts in a toilet system and the idea that most of this stuff is gummy/slippery, I figured that it just might be a good idea to go ahead and get grey water away from the "living area" of a bus (whether into a grey tank, a combined tank, or a dedicated drain). If people have done it and it works well, I'd like to know about it, but at least in theory, it looks like there could be problems. BH, NC USA | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
Registered Member Username: Daved Post Number: 208 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 142.46.199.30  Rating: N/A |
Grey water can be full of bacteria. IMHO reusing it to flush the toilet or for any other purpose is not a good idea. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 716 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.39 Rating: N/A |
Grey water has been used for flushing toilets and watering gardens/lawns for 30-40 years, especially in areas of sparse water like the Virgin Islands. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 437 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.119 Rating: N/A |
Grey water has been used for flushing toilets and watering gardens/lawns for 30-40 years, especially in areas of sparse water like the Virgin Islands. AFTER it was allowed to settle , and the various food particles etc and then filtered to not clog the pump. AS long as its not just dumped on the ground , where it is at least as dangerous as black water . FF | ||
| Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member Username: Dreamscape Post Number: 318 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 75.93.55.100 Rating: N/A |
Using grey water just sounds like more problems to me than it is worth. I like the simpler and easier methods anyway. Much quicker and less costly to deal with. | ||
| Debbie and Joe Cannarozzi (Joe_camper)
Registered Member Username: Joe_camper Post Number: 111 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 71.239.202.82 Rating: N/A |
Nothin like a topic to stir the pot a little. I can not do it having one holding tank but I've always been curious. Andy if your primary reason for doing all this is access to that bottom tank for potential repair I think you are worrying too much. Another side note. We never use holding tank chemicals. First the toilet is a macerator so there are never any solids to deal with. The converter included an electronic odor control. It consists of 4 electrodes one in each lower corner of the tank, a control module and a switch at the control panel, it is d/c. I spoke with the manufacturer for repair parts and was told it operates by cycling on for 17 min. an hour and kills the bacteria by electrocution! No bacteria no odor. It must work cause there is never any oder, even when dumping! It occurred to me that if someone with separate tanks combined this feature with an additional pump inlet off the gray tank mounted up the side to some degree to avoid particulates??????? I know, way out there, quartzsite thinking, sorry couldn't help it. Here is a photo of the bottom corner of our holding tank and 1 of those electrodes. The accessory is about 300 bucks if installed yourself you get the control module 4 electrodes a switch and wiring. | ||
| Debbie and Joe Cannarozzi (Joe_camper)
Registered Member Username: Joe_camper Post Number: 112 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 71.239.202.82 Rating: N/A |
Here is that picture.  | ||
| Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member Username: Doninwa Post Number: 139 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 208.81.157.90 Rating: N/A |
Joe, Any idea how current they use? Don 4107 | ||
| Andy Wright (Wrightwy)
Registered Member Username: Wrightwy Post Number: 38 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 70.192.130.13 Rating: N/A |
Hey Joe, Thanks for the insight. I was just thinking of tank excess when I started. But once I got into It I decided to let dead dogs lie.And just replace the copper and make it simple .Thanks Andy | ||
| Debbie and Joe Cannarozzi (Joe_camper)
Registered Member Username: Joe_camper Post Number: 113 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 71.239.202.82 Rating: N/A |
Don I'm not sure what you are asking? It's 12volt. The control module is 5 by 8 by 1 inches and has a small solid state circut board in it. That is what needed replacing on ours, it was 175 bucks. This was one of those switches for me that took over a year to figure out. While in the plumbing bay doing some work on the central vac I had some acess panels pulled and I happen to look up and attatched to the top of the bay was this module and someone had taken a scribe and scratched odor control on it and there were no other markings on it. I imidiatly went in and turned it on and sure enough was able to light up the test light. I love it when stuff like that happens! Took a while to get info on it. That came from a Bluebird owner who had the same thing. A call to Holland Mich. for the name of the manufacturer, out of Texas. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 717 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.67 Rating: N/A |
Never heard of any dangers from gray water in places I saw, like St. Thomas, VI which I visited many times in the Navy. I was told there that the detergents in gray water were beneficial for plants and lawns and there was no reason to filter it for flushing toilets-kind of foamy though. They caught rain water for their fresh water for many years there until finally a desalination plant was built. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 440 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.141 Rating: N/A |
And just replace the copper and make it simple. The copper tubing does a great job of killing the stuff that grows in FW tanks , after the chlorene evaporates. Just be sure NO part of the FW system or piping can be hit by daylight , or your system may grow green slime. You don't have too visit Mexico to get a visit from Montezuma. "Never heard of any dangers from gray water in places I saw,' I guess they didn't notice that the folks spit in the sink on brushing their teeth,to pass on their medical hassles or that cleaning food and washing the cutting board could add samonella and a dozen other fun diseases to the brew. Guess too they didn't notice old food ROTS . The Navy barged Puerto Rican water to ST Thomas for decades, too bad they didn't just tell them to drink from the sink drain. FF | ||
| Andy Wright (Wrightwy)
Registered Member Username: Wrightwy Post Number: 42 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 75.216.24.82 Rating: N/A |
Well Fred That's something to think about, But as I was taking apart the system I did notice a builed up of a lite green supstance on the inside of the pipe. and the fact that it was way over built for my needs.Thanks for the Thoughts . Andy | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 719 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.38 Rating: N/A |
I doubt that all these things being flushed down a toilet were any more hazardous than the material being flushed. I was the Comptroller for the Roosevelt Roads Naval Station in PR and was never aware of any money being spent for water being barged to St. Thomas? | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 330 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.209.236.0 Rating: N/A |
Bleach (chlorine) does wonders in all the systems. Doesn't take much to clean up the pipes and the tanks....including fresh. FWIW...  RCB |
