| Author | Message | ||
| Roger Baughman (Roger)
Registered Member Username: Roger Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 69.232.69.39 Rating: N/A |
Does anybody know how using 100% vegetable oil in a 8-71 Detroit diesel will effect the engine? I understand that the oil must be kept warm enough and be cleaned be filtering and be with no fatty acids. Also the engine must be stopped and started while running regular diesel fuel. Very interested, Thanks, Roger | ||
| Rob Norgren (Robsedona)
Registered Member Username: Robsedona Post Number: 41 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 75.210.156.156 Rating: N/A |
Yes all True That is for Used Veg. Oil. Or you can add these guys additive and forget the heating and the use of Diesel altogether http://www.dieselsecret.com/ Just put it strait into the tank after mixing. | ||
| Pete/RTS Daytona (Pete_rtsdaytona)
Registered Member Username: Pete_rtsdaytona Post Number: 476 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 72.189.71.25 Rating: N/A |
Hi Here's the skinny on the DIESEL SECRET CRAP http://www.greasecar.com/forum_topicview.cfm?frmtopicID=3349 I consider this guy the EXPERT / He has a great deal of Technical knowledge http://www.frybrid.com/ other very useful sites - http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/159605551/m/347104314 http://www.greasecar.com/fuel.cfm?page=4 http://vegburner.co.uk/oils.htm http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html#copperstudy http://www.goldenfuelsystems.com/ I like thier cheap MANUAL VALVES (no complicated electronic) http://www.veggiefuelsystems.com/products.html Pete RTS/Daytona (Message edited by pete RTS/Daytona on May 25, 2008) | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 397 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.40.147 Rating: N/A |
Rob, be careful with the WVO thing I don't have a spare engine LOL are you back in AZ (Message edited by luvrbus on May 24, 2008) | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 240 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 149.168.204.4  Rating: |
__. Roger, I have a VW TDI diesel car -- it's an '03 model so it has Bosch electronically controlled, mechanical fuel injection; it also is designed for very high pressures, small tolerances in the pump and injectors and nozzles, and it has a catalytic converter. All this make it harder to safely run VO conversions and it's said that "older technology" engines are easier. But I've researched the idea for my VW so let me tell you what I've come up with and we'll see if that helps guide us in regard to buses. __. I've decided that it's out of the question on the VW. Some people have successfully switched to VO in these engines (the ones sold in N America since '04 have an even more complicated system of injectors so for my car, we're talking a very specific slice of the pie here), but many more have had very expensive problems. VO - unless very closely controlled on to a fairly high temperature - has a much higher viscosity than petro-diesel. Besides injection pump (in VW land that translates from the Chermin as "$$$$?) failure from wear and deposits, some people have experienced pump drive shafts broken off from the extra strain. __. The worst effects seem to come from injector/nozzle problems. Some people have seen clogged injectors or nozzles give such an improper injection stream that the effect of the injected fuel is like a "cutting torch" across the tops of the pistons (pistons don't like that). Other people have experienced problems with injectors leaking from deposits - in those cases, too much raw fuel gets into the cylinders at the wrong time. This "washes" lube oil off the cylinder walls and pistons and has resulted in cylinder/piston scoring and/or siezure. Also, improperly-injected raw VO has caused crankcase oil (which must be high-spec synthetic 5W-40 oil in VW's post-1998) to congeal with very bad end results. Some people who have tried it have also had serious problems with deposits in heads, valve gear, combustion chambers, etc. __. Successful users of VO in modern VW's have said that they carefully filter and de-water the veg oil; also, they select system components that assure proper supply of the VO to the engine at correct temperatures and pressures. They also regularly have their injectors ultrasonically cleaned and "pop-tested" much more frequently than needed with petro-diesel fuel and they change oil much more frequently. __. And many people are finding that "bio-diesel" companies are buying all the waste oils that they can find (some states have tax incentives or even require that fuel have a certain percentage of bio, as a way to assist farmers but it's cheaper and easier for the production companies to buy up waste oil than to produce it from crops). In what seems to be a trend, they're paying the restaraunts and commercial users of veg oil for their used oil and have exclusive contracts. This means that it's very hard is some places (and users have commented that this seems to be a trend) to get waste oil at all and if you can get it, it's becoming expensive enough that the price becomes a factor. __. Please understand that all the above is only indicative of the experience in very intolerant engines. The general experience out there is that people are consistently more successful with older, low-tech engines. Also, people are gaining experience with ways to avoid the pitfalls so the experience -- even with very intolerant engines -- is becoming better. So, it's only an indication of "worst case". __. In summary, you will need, at a minimum, the expense of a carefully designed and researched oil heating and supply system for your bus (also, tanks, lines, guages, etc., of course). You will also need a place for a somewhat complicated system for multiple filtering and storage of oil before it goes into your bus -- and that place must be tolerant of some smell and mess on the floor (the amount that you invest in tanks and filtering system seems inversely proportional to the amount of smell and mess you have, but there you go). Once you're past there, you have the time and effort in collecting oil and processing it. And there's the issue of additional maintenance to injection components, extra oil changes, etc. to be factored into the equation. Also, you have to consider your "range" -- if you're usually within the range (going and coming) of the amount of oil you can carry, you're OK. If you usually drive far and wide, you have the issue that you'll be buying petro-diesel to get home on anyway. And there are the "management" issues such as starting on diesel fuel (which means separate tanks) and purging at the end of a run, as well as keeping oil tanks on the bus clean etc. __. On the other hand, once you're past all this, you're looking at a system that's very low-cost and (if it's important to your political and financial beliefs) you're avoiding the effects of imported petroleum (foreign exchance dollars, money to unfriendly governments, etc.). __. But you have to go in with the knowledge that, as Luvrbus mentioned, some people have totally melted down their engines on VO fuel. Get the best info you can, do your cost figures, and see if it's right for you. (As you can imagine, I've decided not to go to VO in my VW -- although I'm watching developments. The jury is still out on my 4-stroke-engined bus but I'm considering it strongly -- partly because I think that small birds and medium-sized rocks can get through the clearances in the injection system on my bus engine -- also, I have a large "barn-type" building for storage and filtering, and I'm in a rural area where it's not efficient [yet ...] for the biodiesel companies to buy up and then transport away all the used oil around. But it's not a decision to be made lightly.) __. Good luck, BH NC USA | ||
| gary throneberry (Garhawk)
Registered Member Username: Garhawk Post Number: 16 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 72.156.222.253 Rating: |
vegetable oil and other fuel substitutes here's another way to look at the diesel fuel costs vs the question of using fuel substitutes such as vegetable oil. hope that you will agree that 1 $ saved is 1 $ earned. if you have access to used oils, devise a way to use them locally - i.e., heat your house, heat your work shop, cool your house, cool your work shop; use the stuff for cook-outs; pour it on your weeds and set fire to them; there must be many other uses for this stuff. my point is this: if you are hopped up to use the vegetable oil and, you have the wherewithall, use it productively locally then, take the money you saved and invest it in diesel fuel for your bus! gary t'berry '89 rts 102 40er | ||
| doug yes (Dougg)
Registered Member Username: Dougg Post Number: 50 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 75.89.24.174 Rating: N/A |
I'm seen two busses that run on veg oil. One was a 80's conventional school bus owned by a lady that filtered used veg oil through a cloth and used that for fuel. She had one tank for starting on regular diesel and one for running with veg. This lady regularly drove from Boston to Mexico in that bus. The other was a 88 Crown with a Cummins rear engine that had extra filters and a system to warm up the veg oil with a coil that circulated radiator water. It also had seperate tanks for diesel and veg. The owner drove across the USA with it. | ||
| Roger Baughman (Roger)
Registered Member Username: Roger Post Number: 9 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 69.232.71.246 Rating: N/A |
Dear Rob Norgren: Are you using the stuff from dieselsecret? If so I would like to know how it is working. If anyone esle is ro has used the dieselsecrte stuff please let me know. Thanks Roger | ||
| David Ljung Madison (Daveola)
Registered Member Username: Daveola Post Number: 130 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.204.157.4 Rating: N/A |
I have driven my bus for a few thousand miles on WVO with no problems. I have the full conversion process up at: http://Bus.GetDave.com/ |
