| Author | Message | |||
| David Lower (Dave_l)
Registered Member Username: Dave_l Post Number: 68 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 99.249.16.254  Rating: N/A |
Hello all What would be a good cruising speed on a highway for fuel economy and safe driving. My coach is the one in my profile it has a 8v71, 4 speed allison auto and 12x22.5 tires. I know this is a bit of a odd question but it has been going around in my head for a bit. Dave L. | |||
| Ron Walker (Prevost82)
Registered Member Username: Prevost82 Post Number: 378 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 24.108.0.225  Rating: N/A |
I get the best fuel economy at 55 mph Ron | |||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 63 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 154.5.117.164 Rating: |
Dave just watch the flack i get over this answer, as your coach was built where the road were not super highway types the design that went in them was for 55 to 60 mph and that is your best fuel speed range, over that the rpm's go up and the rate that you will go through fuel wasted increases very sharply. that motor you have runs best at 1950 rpm any thing below uses more fuel and anything above will increase very sharply as when you run at 2200 your milage will drop25 to 30 percent. for example if you get 8 mpg at 1950 you can look at 5.5 to 6 at 2200. and if you have ever had a blow out on a front tire at 55 mph and you walk away from it you will sure change your need for speed idea as of that moment onward. just look at the pieces of tires that you see on the roads and watch the black streeks on the pavement and where they go and a lot of them are from rear tire blowouts. it is not that your coach cannot go faster it just safer at the speed range i gave above. it is also cheaper to maintaine your coach than when driven hard. if you do not have a tackometer you might find it an investment well worth while. | |||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 534 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.54.82 Rating: N/A |
David,the 8v71 torque range is 1200 to 1400 depending on the setup.I have a 8v92 and drive it between 1400 to 1800 rpm and the fuel milage varies very little.I am not one of the guys that believe you should run a DD wide open all the time the engine was not design for that most like between 1200 to 1900 rpm.keep in that range and you will have less oil leaks also (Message edited by luvrbus on September 04, 2008) | |||
| David Lower (Dave_l)
Registered Member Username: Dave_l Post Number: 69 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 99.249.16.254 Rating: N/A |
I don't have a tach just a speedo in mph. Are there tach kits for this coach. | |||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 548 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.75.253 Rating: N/A |
Dave, There are indeed tach kits for the engine. Someone posted an excellent in-depth study of fuel efficiency for the 71 & 92 series engines, as they have the same stroke, about a year ago. It's in the archives somewhere, maybe a key word of fuel efficiency? Anyhow, what it showed, and its straight out of Detroit's graphs, is that the lowest engine fuel consumption rate is at just over 1700 rpm. As explanation, fuel burns at a certain rate, and for best efficiency, the burn, (and expansion) wants to end just as the piston gets to the 'bottom' of the cylinder. If the engine is running slower, the burn is done before the piston gets to the bottom, so the piston quits pushing for the remainder of the stroke. Higher engine speed means the piston gets to the bottom, and the exhaust valves open before the burn is done, so part of the burn and expansion occurs in the exhaust manifold where it is wasted. This has nothing to do with maximum torque output as properly described above, or max horsepower output, which is almost always max governed speed in a diesel. Wind resistance is obvious, the slower you go, the less fuel you burn pushing air. So, when you are going down the road in 4th, keep the engine between 1700 and 1800, which will probably be in the high 50s, and you're doing the best you can. HTH, George (Message edited by George Mc6 on September 04, 2008) | |||
| David Lower (Dave_l)
Registered Member Username: Dave_l Post Number: 70 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 99.249.16.254 Rating: N/A |
thank every one for the info, I am going to look for a Tach kit for it and look for the post you mentioned George. :-) Dave L | |||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 293 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
We were in Holland and Germany this summer and all heavy trucks travel at a maximum speed of 80Km. In fact I saw one fellow trying to pass another truck, and after a couple of minutes he fell back in the lineup unable to gather more speed. My understanding is that the engines are governed and with their gearing they just cannot go any faster. Busses are maxed out at 100 Km/hr 62Mph and you will usually see a large 100 sticker on the back. Also consider that fuel was over 9 dollars per US gallon making the running cost a large part of the equation. On the other hand, on the autobahn those folks that are driving Audis Bimmers or Benzes think that 200 kmph is still not fast enough. Joe. | |||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 535 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.54.82 Rating: N/A |
David, go to www.powerlinecomponents.com look under literature then Detroit Diesel then old 2 strokes brochures they have good graphs and charts for the engines on fuel mileage with gearing and tire sizes.Here is a site for tach info I prefer the sender generator over the Alt driven type FWIW www.precisionspeed.com in Phoenix Az (Message edited by luvrbus on September 04, 2008) | |||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 288 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.55.199.152 Rating: N/A |
hey luvrbus; shucks, turn the guv to 2450 rpm's,put er on the floor, the right pedal,and it won;t take long a running and she won't go NO MORE. Then fuel mileage will go sky high, the wrecker will consume the fuel then. All jokes aside I try to run mine around 60-65 on the I roads and 50-55 on others and I get at7-8 mpg. Gomer | |||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 536 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.54.82 Rating: N/A |
yea,Marvin you show these engines a little respect and give it TLC they will serve you for years with no problems.I am not a believer in the saying drive like your mad or whatever my 8v92 loves 1500 to 1800 rpms.Is the hurricane gong to affect you where you live be safe | |||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 289 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.55.199.152 Rating: N/A |
luvrbus' the weatherman has said that the storm Hanna is going to miss us and at the current path will hit Myrtle Beach and north. The one we are concerned with is IKE that is the big one for now . we have a shelter at a school within a mile of us and me working for the school system I do have keys to lock it or control all activity within my power, so we will be safe and sound. Now if anyone needs any help in the area please contact Me at 352-875-1040 cell phone and I will get you in the right places. Gomer | |||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 334 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.211.2.136 Rating: N/A |
We have a Cummins 220 with turbo (265hp) and over the years have learned that best fuel mileage is under 65 (1600 rpm in 10th gear on the flat) and better yet at 55-60 (1500 rpm on the flat). But, I must say the coach drives, rides and feels great at 75+......  . We have gone 12 mpg at those speeds and probably average more in the neighborhood of 10 +- in this part of the country, depending on which way we travel. West from Las Cruces is the upper limit. East to LA is more the lower and to CO in between depending on the roads we take. Interstate is not necessarily the most economical. FWIW... and keep a light foot  RCB | |||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 69 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 174.145.87.193 Rating: N/A |
My 5A with a 4 sp. Allison and 8V71 gets its best milege at around 1700-1750 rpm. Only thing is, at that rpm in 4th i am doing 70mph. My shift point between 3rd and 4th is 55-57 mph so if i run in 4th at 55-63 mph i am lugging it. If i run in third at those speeds i am running at 21-2150 rpm and my miles per gallon drop by about 25% | |||
| David Lower (Dave_l)
Registered Member Username: Dave_l Post Number: 71 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 99.249.16.254 Rating: N/A |
luvrbus thanks for the links the one link About the engines I can get in to but when I open the link to read the info you mentioned it shuts my internet down with a message saying the page wants to run with an unusual time then closes. I dont supose you can down load the info for me and send it to me as a attachment. Dave L | |||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 726 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.6 Rating: N/A |
David, I like 60 best and seem to get best mileage around there. Any slower and it seems to lug down. One thing, I always speed up to around 65-70 for hills, seems to make climbing them much easier and often saves shifting down. | |||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 185 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 209.50.72.2 Rating: N/A |
Dave Stewart Warner make a good diesel tach for you. 3500 rpm. They are available at Car Quest, Harper DD and lots of other places. One for the altenator is a 82640 and one for a sender on the engine is a 82619 with a sender 82623. Bill | |||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1418 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.166.160  Rating: N/A |
David - Back in my charter days (which also, btw, was during the idiotic national 55 mph speed limit era), the newer MCIs all had cruise controls on them. Most of the coaches had either 8V71s, 8V71Ts or 6V92TAs, all coupled to the HT-754 five-speed Allison automatic. Anyway, I'd set the cruise for 100 kph (62 mph) and just let them roll down the hiway, even though I was being passed constantly. If it was a flat valley run, say Fresno to Sacramento and return, I'd get just under 7 mpg. Other runs, such as Fresno to Disneyland, or Fresno to Lake Tahoe, requires climbing 6% grades to get out of this valley, and the mileage would run 6 - 6.5. On the run from Fresno to Yosemite National Park, which is mostly 2nd gear due to the twisties and climbing to 7,000 feet, the mileage would drop to around 5 mpg. So the real answer to your question is: It depends. Translated: 55 > 65 mph = overall average of 6 mpg, based on my commercial, revenue-service experience. FWIW & HTH. . . | |||
| David Lower (Dave_l)
Registered Member Username: Dave_l Post Number: 72 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 99.249.16.254 Rating: N/A |
Thanks guys. Bill is the tach you mention fit in the dash or mount on top and does it have a hour meter I ask where it mounts because my dash has a blank hole next to the speedo where I keep small bulbs for now. Joe I am shocked they realy have bus's in Germany, I thoght they drove 8 tire turnips power'd by sour kraut driven by guys in green leather pants! amazing. :-) (Message edited by dave l on September 05, 2008) (Message edited by dave l on September 05, 2008) | |||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 294 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
Large 100 sticker as seen in germany  | |||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 295 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
Here is an another picture of a setra with the wife and cousin in the picture.  | |||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 296 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
The setra in the above picture had a fuelburn rate of 28liters /100km which translates to 10 cdn or about 8.5 us. It was equipped with mercedes engine and an 8 speed stick. Joe. | |||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 459 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.11 Rating: N/A |
DD run best where GM built them to run , between 1200 (prime genset) and 1800 (Emerg genset). Hound set the Sportscar of Coaches to run at 1650 , about 60 and a bit. They get inefficient much over 10% over the designed rpm so 1800+180 , set for 1950 and yoou are at the top of the range. Unfortuniatly the DD love to be loaded , so you MUST have about 60% of the rated load at any RPM to be in the good range. Too large injectors will crush the mileage at all speeds. FF | |||
| Keith Wood (Ft6)
Registered Member Username: Ft6 Post Number: 37 Registered: 8-2008 Posted From: 71.198.253.223 Rating: N/A |
You might think about the "Maxi Singles" instruments made by Stratomaster for experimental aircraft. Their engine monitor sells for a couple of hundred bux and reports several temperature readings, oil pressure, tach -- and can send that info to a PC for tracking the curves. | |||
| Tom Christman (Tchristman)
Registered Member Username: Tchristman Post Number: 10 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.218.33.156 Rating: N/A |
It also depends on the injectors you have. If it has 55 or 60 injectors down to 1200rpm is alright. If it has 65 or higher, then 1600rpm is where torque is produced and should not be drivin lower. The maximum continuous output of the 8V-71 is 240hp at 1800rpm. On my bus 1800 is 58mph and that's where I drive. Good Luck, TomC | |||
| J.L.Vickers (Roadrunnertex)
Registered Member Username: Roadrunnertex Post Number: 44 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.1.93.255 Rating: N/A |
Back many years ago when the PD4104's and the PD4501 Scenicruisers were new in Greyhounds fleet. I was just a very young teenager. My dad was driving for Greyhound and when he would come home after each one of his trips the 2 questions I would ask him was this. What kind of a bus did you have on your trip and the how fast would it go? And his reply would be either a Scenicruiser or a Highway Traveler Greyhound's name for the 4104's. Next reply was 60/65 mph. To this day I can still hear him say 60/65mph. I can get 7.1 mpg with my 1974 Buffalo with a V730 transmission at 60/65 mph. I do not have a tachometer and question why does a bus need a tachometer? Greyhound never put any on their coaches so why should I. I guess it must be a truck driver thing you got to have a tachometer for reasons I don't understand. Perhaps a old truck driver can explain why he needs a tachometer. Old bus drivers tell me it's a truck drivers thing to have a tachometer. My self 60/65 No Tach you! jlv | |||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 196 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 74.244.14.221  Rating: N/A |
JL, My bus has ONLY a tach no speedo. Invaluable when trying to decide shift points for my 5 speed manual. I can tailor the gears to keep it in the most efficient RPM band | |||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 727 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.43 Rating: N/A |
JV, As you know I'm an old guy, and I did drive the big trucks for a while. The reason truckers need tachs is that 99% of the engines are slow turners with very narrow max torque bands. All those 13/15 speed trans are to keep the engine turning within that narrow band and not loose speed. Some used DD 2-stroke years ago but not a great percent. All the truckers driving DDs I talked to said to drive them up to the gov-just like a bus. PS. The rear windows look great. | |||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 461 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.50 Rating: N/A |
With the only 4 speed tranny most busses can have the functional equivelant of a tach for FREE. Simply put a red dot on the speedo face at the TOP rpm for each gear . 1 dot for first , 2 dots for second and 3 for third. You , by inspection, will easily know where to shift when downshifting in traffic. EG. you slow from 55 rolling to a light and the light goes green , you see the speedo at 20, below the 2 dits at 30 which is max in second , so you plop it into second and procede. Have no idea how a tach would give this information, so why bother with another gadget? FF | |||
| Pete/RTS Daytona (Pete_rtsdaytona)
Registered Member Username: Pete_rtsdaytona Post Number: 497 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 97.104.21.169  Rating: |
 | |||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 462 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.199 Rating: N/A |
Pete , Could you post a chart for the Series 50 & 60 , so we can see weather "newer " IS better, and by how much? FF | |||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 538 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.57.23 Rating: N/A |
David sorry but but I don't know how to send the info to you maybe one of the other guys here could do it for you.FF Valley Power has charts for the 60s not much left about the 50s but you will find the charts in the DD book a couple of the guys here have 50s in their buses FF they probably have a chart (Message edited by luvrbus on September 07, 2008) | |||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 64 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.180.201.25 Rating: N/A |
the reason that i have a tack is that it makes the shift toints easy as to using the speedo in fact right now i only have the tack. although as FF will tell you us old guys found out way to long ago that if you kept your hand on the gear shift leaver you could feel the vibrations caused by the engine as most time the muffler or tail pipe had holes in the or you were working in a high noise area and had a hard time hearing the engine change speeds.i had first put in a stwert warner and had nothing but trouble with it so change to the ISSPRO made in Portland Or. and have had great succes with it and the people the are the best to talk and deal with. you local Freight Liner dealer has them on the shelf and are easy to install as the go in the dash or by using a seperate mounting braket you can mount it where ever you please...there are many models of these as to face plate colour , speedo and tack . milage indicator, i am sure they will show you or get the e mail address . they are like some of the other things buses did not have such as --spring brakes, air throtle,jake brake,Raccaro seats,led lites,co-piolet, just to list a few. | |||
| Pete/RTS Daytona (Pete_rtsdaytona)
Registered Member Username: Pete_rtsdaytona Post Number: 498 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 97.104.21.169 Rating: N/A |
series 60 hp/torque/fuel curves --> http://www.istanbul-cemberci.com/istanbul/detroit.pdf I can no longer find the series 50 curves - seems they have been removed If this attach works this may be helpful also
(Message edited by pete rts/daytona on September 07, 2008) | |||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 165 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.99.19.85 Rating: N/A |
The older Eagles had the shift points printed on the speedometer. | |||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 187 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 209.50.72.2 Rating: N/A |
David The Stewert Warner tach fits in the dash. It is 3 1/8" if I remember right. There is no hour meter on the ones I mentioned but I am sure there is one out there that does. I have run a Stewert Warner tach for over 20 years and still going strong. Bill | |||
| Moe Hollow (Moehollow)
Registered Member Username: Moehollow Post Number: 51 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 71.102.20.26 Rating: N/A |
First, let me say that I agree that you do not need a tach, and that if it were important Greyhound would have used them too. However, I just bought one and will install it soon. Greyhound may not have had several things that could be useful like a voltmeter or a Jake. I just would like to have that little piece of information. I want to be able to double check that I am not over-revving coming down a grade. I would like to know if I am staying in the engine's sweet spot and do not always trust my speedo or my ability to "feel" it in different situations. Why, sometimes I could swear I'm going downhill only to find I'm going up. | |||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1201 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9  Rating: N/A |
The engine timing and injector size is going to have an effect on where the efficient cruising rpm is. Slower is better as long engine isn't being operated below it's most efficient range. Probably 60 to 65 is going to be your best overall. Try to do some careful experimenting over a few thousand miles, although it takes several thousand for average owner to see what works best. Good place to start: Advanced timing 1750 to 1850 rpm and standard timing at 1650 to 1750 rpm. Subtract another 50 rpm for small injectors. Definitely get a tach. Helpful for shifting, checking governor setting, minimum idle, preventing engine over run on steep downgrades ( a MAJOR reason to have a tach ) and something to watch on the dash. Remember that those two cycle valves move twice as fast as they do in a four cycle engine and can float and drop into cylinder during overspeed. and Bang, bang, DOH!! | |||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 467 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.109 Rating: N/A |
"preventing engine over run on steep downgrades ( a MAJOR reason to have a tach )"{ On downgrades simply slow the beast every time it gets to the usual top speed on flats. Those that love to hear a DD scream can go to the Daris web site and see what speed 2100rpm is (if the coach is goverened below that) and simply put a paint mark at that speed, for high speed downhill. FF | |||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 562 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 76.91.197.153 Rating: N/A |
That works in high gear, and would require four paint marks... G | |||
| JC Alacoque (Jc_alacoque)
Registered Member Username: Jc_alacoque Post Number: 73 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.45.68.242 Rating: N/A |
2 stroke Detroits are best shifted "on the governor", up and down. We used to stick small pieces of tape on the speedometer, because every bus was different. None of them had tachs. When the hockey team got the 102D3 with S60 and 7 speed manual, with tach., it got some getting used to for me to keep it between 1300 and below 2000 rpm to keep it in the torque/power band and at best fuel efficiency. The tach. is certainly useful at that, although you get sfifting by feel after a while. The only tach. I use on my old Courier 96 is a cheap IR hand held from Harbor Freight to set the iddle and no load high speeds on the governor. JC | |||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1359 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.69.142.162  Rating: N/A |
For the benefit of the newbie: You don't "need" a tachometer. If you "want" one, go for it, but don't feel you have to do this when other issues are more pressing on your efforts and resources. Each of the 4 or 5 gears have easily defined operating speeds measured by the speedometer. In simple terms, the speed the coach is going when the engine is against the governor, is the time you shift up to the next gear, and shift back down to it when slowing. So, you only have 3 or 4 speed points to remember, or mark on the speedo with a dab of paint or white-out works well. No decision making necessary. In each of those ranges on your speedo, it belongs in the corresponding gear. period. Use one of the online calculators, once, to determine the road speed that will give you the RPM you think you want to operate at. Here's links to two: http://www.cwis.net/~mallie/page12.html http://www.thebouthilliers.com/4106/ happy coaching! buswarrior | |||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1360 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.69.142.162 Rating: N/A |
oh, to the original question, Dave, my MC8 and your MC7 are similarly equipped. Using US gallons, (3.78 litres) because you have to speak the language of the majority... Out on the highway, steady running, 60 mph will yield 7 mpg 70 mph will yield 6 mpg When accelerating, same as your car, if you floor it, you'll pay more than a part throttle gentle fuel delivery. And idling consumes a gallon an hour, more on the fast idle. Idling at today's fuel prices costs you somewhere around 8 cents a minute. happy coaching! buswarrior | |||
| Pete/RTS Daytona (Pete_rtsdaytona)
Registered Member Username: Pete_rtsdaytona Post Number: 499 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 97.104.20.64 Rating: N/A |
found series 50 and series 60 torque curve see--> http://www.abco.co.za/Series%2060%20Spec%2023129.pdf or http://www.abco.co.za/abco_articles_brochures.htm | |||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
Registered Member Username: Daved Post Number: 211 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 142.46.199.30  Rating: N/A |
We have a leased spot on a lake about 100 miles from home where we park our coach for a few weeks to a few months at a time. The trip home involved about 50 miles of two lane and 560 miles of four lane highway. I just brought it home yesterday. Traffic was moving at 60 mph+ on the two lane highway and 70 mph on the four-lane portion. Much as 50-55 might give the best fuel economy, the bus seems to be very happy running at 65-70 mph. | |||
| Kevin Black (Kblackav8or)
Registered Member Username: Kblackav8or Post Number: 98 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 207.132.224.131 Rating: N/A |
Isspro makes a nice collection of guages. Back to the beginning: What is the rear axle ratio? What tire size are you running? After that you can really get down to where you might set up for best MPG. Depending on your specs that might be 55 or it might be 70. |
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