| Author | Message | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
Hello All; I guess this all started way back in 1970 or soosssss when I drove a school bus part time for the Kern High School District in sunny Bakersield California while pretending to go to school. My daily ride was an old (new then) 1963 Crown 40 foot 3 axle 10 wheeler 92 passenger school bus. I wondered at that time what kind of motorhome the old girl would make. Lots of room. Still wondering. Bought a 1974 Crown Super Coach 10 wheeler surplus for a $song$ back in November and have been doing the coach planning thing while living aboard. The Crown is both an excellent choice and a lousy choice for a conversion. Good because of the huge chassis capacity (GVWR 47,160#) and bad because there is no basement storage space. After much planning I have decided upon (???) an all electric coach. Strong personal preference. Retired fire service. Don't like propane. My experience level with coach conversions is zero. Thus my inquiries via this excellent board. The bus can handle practically any weight of batteries. The most grandiose of plans still fall short of any chassis overload. I can't afford to full time at expensive campgrounds-thus the boondocking theme. Been there and done that. Want a coach to go a minimum of 30 days dry camping. Which reflects the huge tankage and battery bank theme. Have been living solar for 12 years with the cabin here in SW OR.. Know battery systems a little bit. But, lots of stuff in the homestead are propane powered which I want to get away from. The coach may eventually be 100% electric with only diesel fuel. Lots of it. Would like to thank everyone for their great input. Wow--had I just jumped in (conversion)without educating myself, would have made tons of mistakes. Still will. Will fill this board in future with many, dumb questions. Need to learn much more. Never thought I would become a net junky. Thank you. Henry of CJ and...CROWNS FOREVER!!! | ||
| Quest (198.29.191.148) Rating: N/A |
Coach preferences are indeed difficult decisions. No one can say your decision is wrong or right except yourself. I find how the coach is set-up depends largely on how the coach is expected to be used. One might say that they would never stay outside of a campground with power. Excellant choice for Total Electric Coach. Of course power available of 50 amp or 30 amp or even 15 amp will teach a fast lesson of conservation, of which I am sure you have built in to your fine coach. Some will plan to Boon once in a great while and plan to use the genset. Of these coaches it is a good idea to have lights that run directly from the battery. Consider time when there may be no 110v available. But those that spend a lot of time booning away the days, these are hard times for coaches and they need all the conservation efforts available, including solar power assist and propane. Ok, I left out the generator on purpose. The genset is a viable power source but it is not welcome in a lot of parks and some demand they be shut down at certain times. In the wild any neighbors you may have will not enjoy listening or smelling your electric stinkpot while enjoying the beauty of nature. (A quote from other users on the BBS) Plan your All electric coach with conservation in mind and you can enjoy it to the fullest. Try to plan for all contengincies, power outages, battery power alone and you will be well rewarded. I have had some experience with solar and I feel it may well be worth the contribution to the battery supply when booning or even in storage. During your planning look at all your options and choose what will fit in best with the lifestyle you plan to live. q | ||
| degojoe (198.81.17.21) Rating: N/A |
I have an all electric coach my generator is a 15kw with a 2/53 detroit. It is quiet and i have a 100 gal tank just for the gen. I have a 4104 and i kept the original a/c engine gas tank as a spare diesel tank (25gal) i have a small transfer pump to transfer the spare diesel into the generator tank or the main fuel tank. In the summer I run my generator days on end. I have a sears drop in electric range with oven, microwave, side by side ref/freezer. When my generator is off and I am not plugged in all I have are lights, tv and stereo. | ||
| Quest (198.29.191.147) Rating: N/A |
Glad you have had good luck with your setup. Have you been around other campers when you ran the gen set? How did you insulate against sound to make it so quiet? I would like to do the same but Ihave limited space for soundproofing. Are you a boondocker, taking weeks at a time or just the occasional stop now and then. Thanks for the response. q | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the fine input. Yea, I suppose I should just stick to my guns and try the all electric coach theme. May not succeed, buy will try. Having fun figuring it all out, anyway. Used to be a campground host and still have contacts in that area. A good $cheap$ way of seeing the country, but personal experience has proven that more coach capacity is better. Most host campgrounds are unimproved; some have no power and only pit toilets. A few have no water--thus the requirement for long term boondocking or dry camping. Large tankage required. Anyway, it now looks like the plan is for 16 T-105 batterys being discharged by the coach stuff over a 2 and two thirds day period, then being recharged at the 6 or 8 hr rate for a total of 3 days. This does not include the energy hoggs like the roof AC units. Obviously, the gen set will also have to run to recharge the batteries, since it looks like I will need a 100 amp 24VDC charger. Anyone know how to balance 3 roof AC units drawing about 12.5 amps each running against 2 25 amp legs (net,contineous) from the planned 7500 Watt gen set? The charger will also draw about 3000 watts or 25 amps at 120VAC. Looks like the gen set will not run all three AC units and the battery charger at the same time. May only run 2 AC's plus the charger. Also, if I am at 9000 feet and it is 100 degrees, may not run even that. Oh well. Plan a bigger diesel generator? There has to be a point where compromise is necessary. Can not afford all this stuff--may have to downsize my dreams. Are we having fun yet? Thanks. Henry | ||
| Quest (198.29.191.148) Rating: N/A |
Conservation for booning seems to be the key word in any kind of coach. Fast Fred (I THINK) has made some talks fo setting up your coach so you can cut the itmes you can live without (like dishwasher, water heater, appliances that use power when off(such as for clocks, memory etc)). Might ask him about it as I think he incorporated it in his coach. I have read several ways of setting up a conservation system with relays or symply using one side of the power panel with a main switch that can be shut down, leaving you with only the needed items while in boon mode. May I wellcome you to this crazy hobby and wish you all the luck and good fortune. As I mentioned before, think out your plan well, look at all the options and see how they would fit in to your projected lifestyle. Youmight find something you like better. As Always, come to the BBS when you need help. All are willing to help one in need and to give you that extra push when you are stalled or discouraged. We have all been there, I am sure we will still have those moments, and what a joy to know there are people out there willing to lend a hand or idea. Good Luck q | ||
| Ted Calvert (Chowbus) (192.132.225.130)
Rating: N/A |
To degojoe: Where did you fit your genset? Ted. | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (64.114.233.139)
Rating: N/A |
Henry, if you want to set up your coach to run everything on one 7.5 KW generator and you are going to be mostly electric, the easiest way to get some bang for the buck is to wire the generator to put out 120 only. Then, when you are actually running on generator, you plug the shore cord into a 240 volt outlet from the generator with the L1 and L2 terminals jumpered right inside the outlet. If you do that, you will not be able to run anything that requires 240 volts unless you are plugged into 240 volt shore power, but balancing legs won't be a problem on the generator and you won't have to have an oversized generator for most uses. When it's hot inside, turn on the ACs; otherwise, run your charger and anything else that you can't run with 3 ACs. With a smart charger in your inverter, you can limit the draw or shut off the charger entirely when you need the power for the ACs. It's the simplest, most effective and least expensive way to accomplish what you want to do that I know of. You're talking about 960 lbs. of house batteries and over 21 KWh of installed capacity. You've got to pay to buy those batteries, haul them around and maintain them, so any choice you can make to reduce your use of KWh can save you quite a bit of money. One reason people avoid running heaters of any kind on a generator is that producing electricity that way throws away 2/3 of the fuel used in the form of heat at the motor and the generator. If you burn fuel to use for heat directly, you don't have that loss. You can make up for some of that loss if you can use the waste heat to heat your water tank, engine or coach. Heating and cooling are the two most intensive ways of using power, so for most purposes, you would want to avoid using batteries for either. If you later decide that the 7.5 KW generator is not big enough, you replace it with another. If you get one big enough, you will be able to run it putting out 240 volts and you just won't need the jumpered outlet anymore. I hope this helps you sort out the wheat from the chaff! Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (66.190.119.82)
Rating: N/A |
Tom, if he connects the two 240 volt hot leads together at the 240 volt outlet, he will short circuit the generator. These two outputs are 180 degrees out of phase. The generator internal connections MUST be reconnected to produce 120 volts only. Richard | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (66.190.119.82)
Rating: N/A |
Henry of CJ, I would be extremely interested in knowing your reasons for being so dead set against using propane. Can you share your reasons with us? Thanks, Richard | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (64.114.233.209)
Rating: N/A |
Richard, I didn't mean to give anyone the idea that the 240 leads from the generator should be shorted. That's why I said that the generator ought to be wired for 120 volts AND L1 & L2 in the outlet should be jumpered. If that is done, there won't be any problem with a short circuit. Henry, I just calculated the BTU of heat that 16 T-105s could produce if they were fully charged and then discharged as much as they are rated for. I get around 72,000. Since propane has around 91,500 btu per gallon and weighs about 4 1/4 lbs., that would mean that 3 1/3 lbs. of propane could produce all the power in those 960 lbs. of batteries. For me, carrying more power than I can use for the things that need to be electric doesn't make sense, but figuring out what needs to be electric is something only you can decide. If I got any of those numbers wrong, please let us know, so that we don't go around with the wrong idea about these things. The weght comparisons between propane and batteries really settled a lot of questions for us. Happy planning, Henry. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
Hello Richard and everyone else; You asked why I do not want to use propane with my bus. Fair question. Let me try to answer. Lots of reasons. Mostly personal. I am retired (retarded?) fire service from a small town. Do not recall that many bad incidences involving propane, but the few I do remember were all bad. Boom! Once burned (literally!) twice shy. The only time I thought I was going to die as a firefighter involved propane. Lucked out. Diesel fuel much more efficent---but lots more $expensive$. Implys lots of batteries which are also heavy--and $$$ Also implys a big diesel APU (true!) with an adequately sized SW invertor. More $$$$$. Implys lots of extra stuff. All $$$. That's the downside. Upside is that I desire a diesel electric coach. Have a '74 Crown 10-wheeler with a HUGE weight carrying capacity. Want to exploit that capacity. Plans now include 20 T-105 golf cart batteries discharged over about 3 days. Then recharged over the 8 hour rate. Lots of makeup water required. Big charger too. Yea, lots of heat generated. But....over enough time that it will not be a problem. Gen diesel. Diesel space and water heating. Now have a solar-propane 5 acre homestead with cabin here in SW Oregon. Nine M51's on the roof and 6 T-105 batts outside the kitchen. Understand my system very well. Still have propane stuff, which while it works, very expensive. Want to get away from propane stuff with the bus. Willing to compromise somewhat to do so. Plans right now... ...Include 250 gallons of fuel, 250 of water and 250 of holding, along with the 7.5 KW APU, 20 batts, Trace 2.5 KW SW invertor, plus a HUGE 24VDC charger. Three roof AC's, 50K btu heater, plus the usual interior stuff. May have to delete third AC and downsize batt bank. Used to be a campground host in dry camp. Would like large capacities sosss can dry camp long time. Personal experience. That's about it. Different strokes for different folks. Propane bus cheaper, but diesel electric bus better (personal opinion) Thanks. Henry | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (66.190.119.82)
Rating: N/A |
Thanks Henry. Once upon a time I fell off a motorcycle, but I got up and rode it again. Also I was a volunteer fireman while in high school and one of the first fires I fought was at a gas bottling plant. A propane tank got knocked over and the valve broke somehow. The propane flowed down the valley to the nearest house with a hot water heater. Many houses destroyed and much damage, but I still use propane in my conversion. Annyhow, thanks very much for taking the time to satisfy my (and probably others) curiosity. The nice thing about building a conversion, you can do it your way. Crowns forever. Richard . | ||
| FAST FRED (63.208.87.246) Rating: N/A |
Henry , How will you cook ? Only when the gen set is operating at 240V will be fine , but then you will need to be very carefull in selecting a campground. FAST FRED | ||
| Ace (24.28.44.126) Rating: N/A |
What's wrong with using a plain ole' bar-b-que grill, outside, where the heat belongs? They come in small portable sizes, easy to transport, and the food taste a hell of alot better than some nasty gas stove! Besides, all you guys talk about how your worried to cool down your coach on one thread and then talk about using a gas stove on another! Nothing like contradiction! That's what I would want to do. Crank up the a/c to get my coach nice and chilly, then fire up the GAS stove IN the bus to cook with! Hey why not just install a fireplace and cook over an open fire or even a pot belly stove? The wood would be free if you cut your own! Ace | ||
| Greg Roberts (Gregeagle20) (66.7.134.190)
Rating: N/A |
Ace, BBQ grill is a great idea and a preference for some I am sure, except when it is freezing or raining out. Fair weather cooking only. | ||
| Ace (24.28.44.126) Rating: N/A |
Greg, there is nothing better than outside cooking whther or not it's freezing or raining! Don't most bus nuts have some sort of big umbrella or canopy?  Ace | ||
| Johnny (65.235.213.118)
Rating: N/A |
20 batteries. Whoa..........sounds expensive & seriously heavy, GVWR notwithstanding. GVWR over 40K? Nice! Mine is much less.  No storage bins? Currently dealing with that (dog-nose skoolie). Where, exactly, do you plan to PUT 20 of these big batteries, just out of curiosity? | ||
| johnwood (206.252.250.207) Rating: N/A |
Try forktruck batteries for a large storage option. I bought one for my home. Cost about 4k and weights (literally) a ton. Advantages; minimum number of interconnects and cabling. Very heavy duty discharge rates on mine of about 1000A at an 8 hour rating and a twenty year life if well kept. Have two Trace SW2424 inverters that keep them charged. I have had the power out at home for up to 8 hours without noticing it. Wife even baked cookies in electric range. The battery I bought is not even the big one. Made by trojan. Bought through a local battery shop. May be a viable option for something like your crown as it is narrow in width, wide and tall and could be installed in a counter or the back of a closet. | ||
| Jim Ashworth (Jimnh) (172.168.125.228)
Rating: N/A |
Am I reading it correctly? Did you say $4000 for the battery? Just curious since I see them in forklifts frequently. I suppose at that price and life expectancy, it is a reasonable investment but the initial payment sure must hurt. Jim | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
Right now the plan is to place the batteries in the right front passenger side truck located just behind the right front wheel. 1974 Crown Super Coach 40 foot 10-wheeler with a 16K front axle with 14K legally useable. Stripped the chassis is a little heavier on the driver's side than on the passengers side. Hope to level and equal the chassis loads by exact placement of the various heavy usual coach stuff such as tankage, gen sets, etc., plus the batts. Hopefully when all is said and done, the front to back balance will be around 30%F and 70%R. Have the usual 34K tandem rear drivers. Even with the most heavily loaded schemes, still a long way from overloading the chassis. Thanks. |