| Author | Message | ||
| Bill Young (Billyoung4106)
Registered Member Username: Billyoung4106 Post Number: 9 Registered: 5-2008 Posted From: 68.209.175.133  Rating: N/A |
Power steering problems..My fluid has been leaking up front on the cylinder for some time. The seal is bad but I haven't got to that job yet ..I just been adding fluid...... This weekend the power steering stopped but I knew I had filled it up before leaving... upon checking,, fluid was pouring out the top of the pump.. just checking with someone who has been around it a lot longer than me to get ideas before I just go taking the pump off...The hose is good ..Thanks for any advise you can offer........ | ||
| Dan West (Utahclaimjumper)
Registered Member Username: Utahclaimjumper Post Number: 108 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 208.66.38.115 Rating: N/A |
Do you know which system you have?? Vickers or Sheppard??>>>Dan | ||
| Bill Young (Billyoung4106)
Registered Member Username: Billyoung4106 Post Number: 10 Registered: 5-2008 Posted From: 68.209.175.133 Rating: N/A |
I think it's the vickers . It is the late model diagram in the manual with the resevoir mounted on the upper right side of the back compartment and the two lines running over to it. The fluid is spirting out the top. That hole it is coming out of is not treaded but something is down in it ,like maybe a release pressure or something... ?? | ||
| Dan West (Utahclaimjumper)
Registered Member Username: Utahclaimjumper Post Number: 109 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 208.66.38.60 Rating: N/A |
Are you saying its coming out of the PUMP or reservoir??, none should be coming out of the pump (the pump is bolted to the rear of the engine and gear driven)the reservoir is mounted in the upper passenger side corner and also should not be pushing out fluid unless overfilled.>>>Dan | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 77 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.180.195.198 Rating: N/A |
bill just by what you say it seems that you have let the oil run low at some time and you have a bad seal because of that. there are two main types of power steering, Ross and Shepard the name Vickers is most likely in referance to the power steering pump.they are easy to removeand just take it to a hyd. repair shop and the can rebuild it for you or they most likely they have a rebuilt on shelf and they will just exchange for your core, as these pumps are very comman. just get the # off the pump and phone the local hyd. shop or some equipment dealer for pricingand if they have one. | ||
| Dan West (Utahclaimjumper)
Registered Member Username: Utahclaimjumper Post Number: 110 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 208.66.38.60 Rating: N/A |
Vickers was the standard system used on the 06, Ross and Sheppard is an intrical system up grade, I went with Sheppard. If you think its the pump you need to contact NIMCO for a take-off pump that will probably last as long as you own the bus. Are you otherwise satisfied with your steering? now would be a good time for an upgrade to Sheppard for small money(also obtainable at NIMCO)>>>Dan | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1209 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9  Rating: N/A |
Usually when it comes bubbling out of the reservoir, it is because of air in the system. If you have the cylinder assist type instead of the power steering box type, now would be a good time to change over to the Sheppard style while you can still get them from Nimco. A few more years and these may be hard to find. | ||
| Bill Young (Billyoung4106)
Registered Member Username: Billyoung4106 Post Number: 11 Registered: 5-2008 Posted From: 68.209.175.133 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the help. The fluid is squirting out a hole in the top of the Pump. So from what I gather the pump has gone out.. If you-all that have upgraded to Sheppard think it is worth the upgrade I guess now would be the time to do it. cause the front cylinder seals are linking and there is play in the wheel coming from the wear where the cylinder connects at the joint. Thanks | ||
| Dan West (Utahclaimjumper)
Registered Member Username: Utahclaimjumper Post Number: 111 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 208.66.38.60 Rating: N/A |
You are surely ready for the up grade, NIMCO will send you the pump,Reservoir,(which you dont need),steering box, and pitman arm. You can use the existing: lines, reservoir, good time to look at tie rod ends and ball joints. I removed old equipment with a cutting torch and replaced the "U" bolts that hold the box to the axel.. Took me 8 hours to do.>>>Dan | ||
| Dan West (Utahclaimjumper)
Registered Member Username: Utahclaimjumper Post Number: 112 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 208.66.38.115 Rating: N/A |
Bill, if you do the up grade you will also flush the old lines and refill with 5# weight engine oil My bus went from wandering all over three lanes to steering like my wifes El-dorado, best thing Ive ever done on my coach. At least contact NIMCO and talk.>>>Dan | ||
| Bill Young (Billyoung4106)
Registered Member Username: Billyoung4106 Post Number: 12 Registered: 5-2008 Posted From: 68.209.175.133 Rating: N/A |
Nimco said the pump, steering box and short drag link is what I need and would be $450. I guess now is the time to do it.If it took you 8 hours it will probly take me 12. It always take me longer to do anything on my bus , mostly due to size and weight, and simply getting under it and out again.. I better do it before I get any older. Any thing I might run into that might be un-expected? Thanks for all the advice. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1212 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9 Rating: N/A |
Thats a fantastic price. Couple of years ago you would pay $1000 or more just for a box. | ||
| Dan West (Utahclaimjumper)
Registered Member Username: Utahclaimjumper Post Number: 113 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 208.66.38.115 Rating: N/A |
Bill, I did mine about eight years ago and my cost was the same, I bought new tie rod ball ends and "U" bolts from Coach services. If you block the front axel up so the tires are about 6-8 inches off the floor you should have enough room, you will have to move the wheels back and forth anyway to bleed the system. The pump will be a higher pressure pump than you had with the Vickers system but mounts and plumbs the same. You will not believe the difference. >>>Dan | ||
| Dan West (Utahclaimjumper)
Registered Member Username: Utahclaimjumper Post Number: 114 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 208.66.38.115 Rating: N/A |
Bill, one caution,I have four point air control installed on my coach, if I allow the coach to let down too much while "at rest" the air tank will contact the new steering box | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 198 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 166.90.247.59 Rating: N/A |
Bill If you are going to use a Sheppard steering box be very careful about the amount of free play in the input shaft. There should be a little but VERY little. These boxes last a long time but ARE NOT adjustable. Cost about $800 to rebuild. The front radius rod needs to be changed to a curved one to clear the box. Some people get a rear one and modify it for length. Also the angle drive gear box on the bottom of the steering column should be a 1 to 1 ratio so you don't end up with too much play in the steering wheel. Smaller steering wheel helps a lot in reduction of play as well. Just my 2 cents worth as I have been there and done it. Bill | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 738 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.246 Rating: N/A |
Bill, If fluid is spurting out of your pump that means your pump is working. It seems to me that the solution is to find out why there is a hole in top of the pump. If it is a missing pressure relief valve the solution is obvious. It may only be a simple plug has come out. The center of the plug or valve may have come out and left the threaded outer part still in the hole. If the valve or plug has fallen down into the pump you need to try to get it out. Probably the best way to do that is to disassemble the pump-you also need to see if the valve has fallen into the pump and damaged anything. Since they both use the same fluid, when my PS leaked I used a can of auto transmission stop-leak and it stopped almost immediately. (Message edited by gusc on October 07, 2008) | ||
| Dan West (Utahclaimjumper)
Registered Member Username: Utahclaimjumper Post Number: 115 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 208.66.38.60 Rating: N/A |
Bill Gerrie brings up some issues I did not have, my 06 is a 62 and everything I recieved from NIMCO bolted right on with no alterations, I did have to carefully "time" the box to the center of my steering wheel. Mr. Gerrie, did your pitman arm end up faceing farward or rearward?? mine is rearward with a drag link to the left side steering arm, therefore nothing conflicts.>>>Daqn | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 199 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 166.90.247.59 Rating: N/A |
Dan My pitman arm faces to the rear and the drag link goes to the left side wheel. I have done a steering conversion an a 4107, 4517, 5303 and 4905 and all required a curved radius rod. It could be a 4106 is different then I have seen or there is another box other then a Sheppard 492 that I have used in all cases. I stand to be corrected if this is the case. That is what I like about this board. You always learn something new. I learned in a humourous way that you can get a Sheppard 492 in an opposite turning way as well. We installed the box on the 4517 and took it for a test run. Turned the wheel right and the bus went left. Good thing nothing was in the way or it wouldn't have been so humourous. I think the opposite turning box can be used on a 4104. Bill | ||
| Laryn Christley (Barn_owl)
Registered Member Username: Barn_owl Post Number: 523 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 151.199.126.23  Rating: N/A |
Bill, In the spring of this year I was in the same spot you are except my bus had already been converted to a Sheppard system. My pump started to blow oil out of the reservoir and I lost almost all power assist. My pump was bad and my steering box tired. I ordered a used take out from NIMCO and they sent everything I needed and then some except for the hoses. It took several hours to make the swap, but other than wrestling the steering box around (throw your back out heavy), it wasn’t too bad. Sheppard’s customer service is the best and they answered all questions I had and they even sent me the tech manual for free because they hadn’t posted it online yet. Eaton/Vickers customer service was also very helpful in diagnosing the original problems. The one thing I learned about the Sheppard 492 is that there is no way to check it for play on the bench without the correct hydraulic pressure to it. If you had the manual it is easy to see why that is, so don’t be alarmed if you get one and it has some play in it on the bench. Once you get it on the bus and you get pressure to it, then you can tell how much play you have. Even new units will have some play because of the internal design, which is the nature of the beast. Mine works better than ever, one finger turning. My father’s 4106 has a smaller steering wheel, 1.5 to 1 gearbox, and a steering damper. It drives like a dream. Where one would get a 1.5 to 1 box I don’t know. I hope this was helpful. Good luck. | ||
| Dan West (Utahclaimjumper)
Registered Member Username: Utahclaimjumper Post Number: 116 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 208.66.38.60 Rating: N/A |
Another advantage I found was to remove the exterior steering stops at each end of the axel on the 06 because the Sheppard system has them inside the box, makes for a much better cut and a tighter circle.>>>Dan | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 200 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 166.90.247.59 Rating: N/A |
Laryn The 1.5 to 1 is the ratio used in manual type steering and the 1 to 1 is power steering due to the assist from the power unit. Dan I have heard of guys removing the bus mounted steering stops but make sure you adjust the box stops so as not to damage the steering components. It would let you turn sharper but what would happen in a sudden turn with the weight of the bus against the steering system. Just something to think about. Bill | ||
| Dan West (Utahclaimjumper)
Registered Member Username: Utahclaimjumper Post Number: 117 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 208.66.38.115 Rating: N/A |
After eight years and 30K miles, no problem. I am delighted with my steering, after installing this system and an automatic trans I was hopeing to get my wife to drive, no luck, the size is intimidating to her (5 ft. 105 lbs.)>>>Dan | ||
| Laryn Christley (Barn_owl)
Registered Member Username: Barn_owl Post Number: 524 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 151.199.126.23 Rating: N/A |
Oops, I guess I have my numbers backwards. The tighter steering box is what my father has. It makes a difference. Drives more like a car. I am sure they are hard to find. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1214 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9 Rating: N/A |
Definitely adjust those stops but make sure you don't back them too far or you may hit the back of your bus when turning very sharp.  | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 277 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 69.143.52.250  Rating: N/A |
__. What drives a power steering pump on a N American bus (gears, V-belts, etc.)? Thanks, BH | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 583 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.75.253 Rating: N/A |
Bruce, Usually "gears" (actually flexible couplings) tied to the cam ends on the back end of a 2 cycle Detroit. Remembering its a 2 cycle, the cams run at engine speed. The blower drive output is twice engine speed. On a vee, there is also another location which can be geared up to about 1.4 times eng speed. I liked the 7/02! Regards, George | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 278 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 69.143.52.250 Rating: N/A |
Thank you, George. I ask because the pump on my bus is gear driven and buried deep within the engine. I'd like to think that there's a possibility that I could take a belt-driven (or other easily-adaptable drive) pump and adapt it if this pump ever fails and parts are unavailable. Is the "pump on flexible couplings" on a 2-cycle Detroit diesel a separate, discrete component that can be bolted on and off? Thanks, BH NC USA | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 585 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.75.253 Rating: N/A |
Bruce, Yes, it sounds like you have the same "type" of application now. George | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 279 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 69.143.52.250 Rating: N/A |
Thanks, George. It's not an immediate problem but I'm a little paranoid about 30-year old British parts. | ||
| Frank Allen (Frank66)
Registered Member Username: Frank66 Post Number: 94 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 64.12.117.73 Rating: N/A |
one thing to watch for is to make sure after the sheppard in on the bus to lower the suspension all the way down and make sure it dont hit the front air tank, to over come this problem i welded new stops on mine to keep it from coming down too far, take a little extra time here. also you dont need any curved radiuos arms on the 06. i put my own on in the driveway in a few hours, i like it a lot, i have the 1.5 to 1 gearbox under the steering column, this is what you will have as well. Frank Allen 4106 | ||
| Stephen Fessenden (Sffess)
Registered Member Username: Sffess Post Number: 745 Registered: 1-2002 Posted From: 66.38.120.219 Rating: N/A |
The draglink cylinder can be rebuilt by Bab Steering Hydraulics, California. (There are other locations but California was where they did bus PS systems.) I was warned not to get the cylinder rebuilt locally with generic seals that are better than original. "The system depends on a small leak across the seals and can become sqirrelly with perfect seals." A new Vickers pump cost me $230 8 years ago. Not a very expensive pump, and a rebuild could cost the same if more parts than the minimum are needed. That was for a 4905 but the system should be about the same. |