| Author | Message | ||
| Doyle Gaither (Texasborderdude)
Registered Member Username: Texasborderdude Post Number: 140 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 75.211.233.176 Rating: |
Hi everyone, I'm looking forward to Quartzite this year. This may be a little soon, but where do the Eagles hangout? A friend that has been to Q for the past several years showed me his homemade battery "topper-off'r" It's a 4 hp. Honda (clone) pulling a 105a single wire alternator. He swears he can top off his house batteries for 1/5th the cost of running his genset and has less than $100 invested in the rig. Anyone done this? Thoughts? Hope to see you in the desert!!! dg | ||
| Grant Thiessen (Busshawg)
Registered Member Username: Busshawg Post Number: 54 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 206.45.93.160 Rating: N/A |
I have been thinking of doing something similiar, wouldn't take much room and wouldn't add much weight. I would think one would have to purchase a alternator with a regulator in it though. Should work good. | ||
| Doyle Gaither (Texasborderdude)
Registered Member Username: Texasborderdude Post Number: 141 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 75.211.233.176 Rating: N/A |
He's using this one: http://www.db-starter-alternator.com/Items/10si-chrome%20-economy%20-105%20amp?&caSKU=10si -chrome%20-economy%20-105%20amp&caTitle=105A%20CHROME%20STREET%20ROD%20GM%20HIGH%20OUTPUT% 20ALTERNATOR%201%20WIRE%20%2010SI-CHROME ....and just connects the hot wire from the alternator to the positive and grounds the alternator.... que simple, no? According to the web-page it is: "This alternator has a self exciting regulator for a one-wire hookup. You will need only your main charging wire connected to the battery. " | ||
| Jim Dunn (Jkdunn)
Registered Member Username: Jkdunn Post Number: 5 Registered: 8-2008 Posted From: 64.253.156.46  Rating: N/A |
Hi Dg i expect to be there on Dec 17th then in and out and around for the following month before heading down into the Baja for the rest of the winter , will keep an eye out for you if you are there during this time period? Jim | ||
| Manny (Buscrazyinfl)
Registered Member Username: Buscrazyinfl Post Number: 44 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 72.185.197.52 Rating: N/A |
Hey Doyle, how are you? Off the subject, but I was wondering how are you liking the air throttle on that Eagle...I love mine. If you come to Lakeland to have more work done give me a shout. | ||
| Dale Houston (Songman)
Registered Member Username: Songman Post Number: 56 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 66.17.9.74  Rating: N/A |
Come to the Eagle Forum at http://www.eaglesinternational.net for all Eagle rally info. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1217 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9  Rating: N/A |
My Old Brill came with a setup like you are talking about. Had a 3-5 hp? engine with alternator attached with belt drive. It was the older alternator that required a separate regulator. Instead, It had an on-off switch, a loading rheostat and a volt and amp meter. It was wired to be able to start the engine with the alternator. If you cranked the knob up, the amps would increase and really draw down the engine, but it worked really nice. Charged those batteries pretty quickly. | ||
| Doyle Gaither (Texasborderdude)
Registered Member Username: Texasborderdude Post Number: 142 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 75.211.151.168 Rating: N/A |
JKDunn... don't know just when I'll get there but maybe by mid-Dec. Will definitely give you a shout when I firm up the plans. Manny... I love the air throttle. Need a block on the floor next to the pedal to get the foot angle right, but it's really reduced the leg fatigue. I love the paint job too (got a couple of moisture bubbles 'cause of the high humidity, but she looks great!) My buddy Richard who made the set-up did a couple of interesting things. He used a 3 wire extension cord and ran the positive alternator output connected to the 3 wires. Then he ran 2 of the wires through 2 120v. single pole light switches and then to the other 2 wires of the extension cord (terminated on the female plug.) He connected other end of the extension cord directly to the batteries. (So effectively he could "switch" the power to 1/3, 2/3 or full charge... the wire size limits the amperage he can charge at. He then ran a ground from the alternator to the battery ground attached to a big jumper cable clamp. The unit is portable, so he plugs the extension cord together and attaches the cable clamp. At start up he turns off both switches (1/3 charge) until it warms up... then adjusts the idle and load. The setup also has an ammeter and when the charge drops below 15amps he shuts 'er down until the next day. I'll get some pictures to post in a few days. dg | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 507 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.91 Rating: N/A |
"It had an on-off switch, a loading rheostat and a volt and amp meter. It was wired to be able to start the engine with the alternator. If you cranked the knob up, the amps would increase and really draw down the engine, but it worked really nice. Charged those batteries pretty quickly." Ahh the good old days. Today the system is far safer with a 3 or 4 stage "Smart V Regulator", from a boat store. This should have a temp sensor to monitor the batts to work best. Usually folks camping will only listen to the noisemaker to get to 80% full, as after that the charge rate is so slow its not worth the fuel/noise/stench. A LARGE batt set is required to live off the 80% to 50% range , for best battery life. And an "E meter" or similar (Link 1000 or 2000) MUST be installed to know what the SOC actually is. FF | ||
| Wayne Schell (Rusty_eagle)
Registered Member Username: Rusty_eagle Post Number: 15 Registered: 4-2008 Posted From: 71.218.32.140 Rating: N/A |
Doyle The rally in Quartzsite will be Jan 15th thru 17th. We are trying to have a combined rally with the GM group. I will post here when plans are final. Thank you Wayne | ||
| Don Fairchild (Don_fairchild)
Registered Member Username: Don_fairchild Post Number: 20 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 66.17.9.74 Rating: N/A |
So Wayne; Will you still allow my Gillig (sob)in the mix. lol Don | ||
| Wayne Schell (Rusty_eagle)
Registered Member Username: Rusty_eagle Post Number: 16 Registered: 4-2008 Posted From: 71.218.32.140 Rating: |
Don You are welcome. When you come sneak in behind Dale. I think Bob has a plastic Eagle that they hang on suspect machines. They take it down after they get a picture. Hope to see you there. | ||
| Dale Houston (Songman)
Registered Member Username: Songman Post Number: 61 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 66.17.9.74 Rating: N/A |
Wayne, I think we are going to have to let Don slide on this one. My Eagle will be a steel tent at most by January and I know it gets dang cold at night. I would rather bunk in his coach on his couch than sleep on an air mattress in mine! haha | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 592 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 76.91.197.153 Rating: N/A |
A couple of thoughts on the electrical system here: One horsepower produces 746 Watts, 105 Amps at 14 Volts is only 1470 Watts if everything is perfect, so lets say it takes 2 1/2 hp to produce 105 amps? "Really drags down the engine with both switches on." ? (Less than 65 amps, more or less, output if #12 wire.) Something's wrong here! Lets say the extension cord used is a 14/3? #14AWG is rated 15 Amps, which would give a maximum output of 45 Amps, without smoking the wire. A #12 cord would only increase the output to 60 amps...? He IS using the resistance in the wires to control amperage, which just happens to be the exact function of an electric heater. Now, before you jump all over me, BECAUSE the alternator is self-regulated, it only keeps 14V on its end of the wires, regardless of the current flow. Since I guess he hasn't had a fire, that isn't too much for the wires, which means he isn't putting more than about 50 Amps into his discharged batts at startup, with #14AWG. IMNSHO, he would have been far better off, and safer, to have used one piece of #3 copper. This would let the alternator put out its full output as needed, and since it is self-regulated, it wouldn't overcharge anything. Is a small DC alternator more fuel efficient than running a 10KW 120VAC genset that has to be transformed into 14VAC and then rectified into 14VDC? HECK YES! (As long as it isn't run at 1/3 output for a long time.) Current limiting with rubber-covered wires is dangerous! George | ||
| Doyle Gaither (Texasborderdude)
Registered Member Username: Texasborderdude Post Number: 143 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 75.210.147.84 Rating: N/A |
Here's some pics.    Best regards, dg | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 593 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 76.91.197.153 Rating: N/A |
Doyle, Thanx for the pix. The reason the alt is slowing the engine down, is because of the pulley sizing. Presently the alt is running about twice the engine speed, and the engine may not be capable of 1470 Watts at partial speed. Also, it may not be governed, and if not, its speed will vary inversly according to its load. The orange output cord is definitely either a #14, or a #16, limiting the output to a maximum of about 50 if its #14, or 40 if its #16. With a pulley change, and a wire upsize, it ought to be good! Regards, George | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 513 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 208.100.193.206 Rating: N/A |
Power cords or any wiring are rated at the AMPS the wires can carry , not the watts. The voltage doesn't matter to the wire (as long as the insulation is OK with that voltage). To run 50A of 12v or 120v would require wires of the same diameter of conductor. FF | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 594 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 76.91.197.153 Rating: N/A |
Fred, You are correct in what you say, however, I feel you missed the entire point here. Please read John's post about "really drags down the engine," and the part of my post about "the pulley sizing causing the alternator to run at twice engine speed." After you have done that, please look up a horsepower curve for just about any gas or diesel engine out there, and you will see that all of them make their maximum horsepower AT VERY NEAR THEIR MAXIMUM SPEED! 746 Watts per horsepower is an engineering standard developed way before either me or Gus were born, whether or not we like it, we have to work with it. That is why I posted "105 Amps at 14 Volts is 1470 Watts, and would take ABOUT 2 1/2 horsepower to produce." Please remember also that a four horsepower engine was posted, and no pictures until later. With the pulley sizing pictured, the alternator would be turned fast enough to produce 105 Amps at far less than full engine RPM, so you tell me, is the 4 HP engine capable of producing 2 1/2 horsepower, (1470 Watts) at 1/2 rated speed? I don't think so, but the point is moot, because of the very small size of the extension cord. Look closely at the orange cord, and give us your opinion, is it 16/3, or 14/3? I'm sorry, but voltage is VERY important here! Why hasn't a 105 Amp alternator burned up a cord that is rated 45 amps at most? The answer is that the SELF-REGULATED alternator only puts 14 Volts on ITS END of the small extension cord. The discharged batteries the OTHER end of the cord is connected to won't be much less than 10 Volts, MEANING THAT THERE IS ONLY FOUR VOLTS PUSHING CURRENT THROUGH THE EXTENSION CORD!!!!! 45 Amps at 4 volts equals 180 Watts, whether you like it or not, and 180 Watts times 3.41 BTU per Watt, (another 200+ year old engineering standard) means the cord would have to give off about 630 BTU of heat, which isn't much, to keep from burning. George | ||
| Doyle Gaither (Texasborderdude)
Registered Member Username: Texasborderdude Post Number: 144 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 75.211.82.114 Rating: N/A |
Soooo, do I understand that if I run my 6.5 hp motor at about 1/2 load (speed)(1750 rpm) and run a pulley that's 2 or 3 inches in size on the motor (approaching a 1 to 1 ratio with the alt) with a single 6 or 8 gauge wire...(to each side...+/-...) I should get my 105 amps of charge at the batteries???? dh | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 301 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
What's with the hose clamps on the engine pulley? | ||
| Doyle Gaither (Texasborderdude)
Registered Member Username: Texasborderdude Post Number: 146 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 75.211.82.114 Rating: N/A |
Quartzite repair 101. The pulley cracked from belt vibration, so he made a temp repair with the clamps. Now has a replacement pulley, but is waiting for it to fail before replacing. | ||
| Dale Houston (Songman)
Registered Member Username: Songman Post Number: 66 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 69.104.172.22 Rating: N/A |
Southern ingenuity! I learned that trick back when I was in my teens. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 595 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 76.91.197.153 Rating: N/A |
Doyle, In a word, yes. Whether Fred likes it or not, one horsepower generates 746 Watts. However many amps that is, depends on how many volts its generated at. So, 105 amps times 14 Volts, which is just normal output voltage of an alternator, is 1470 Watts. Divide that by 746, and it will give you the horsepower required. Its two, but everything isn't quite perfect, and there is belt friction, etc, so in reality, it probably takes 2 1/4 or so. Will your six horse do it easily at more or less half throttle? (Answer is above!) #6 AWG is rated about 70 amps, and I wouldn't use anything smaller. I hope this helps, again thanx for the pix, AND the re-position, whether it was you or the Canuck that got there first! Regards, George | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1375 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.71.102.189  Rating: N/A |
Perhaps the size of wire on the alternator while installed in an automobile has triggered the designer's choice? happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 517 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.106.159.205 Rating: |
"Perhaps the size of wire on the alternator while installed in an automobile has triggered the designer's choice?" Most cars would not have a #14 wire as alt output. FF |
