| Author | Message | ||
| john degemis (Degemis)
Registered Member Username: Degemis Post Number: 26 Registered: 3-2008 Posted From: 68.113.38.16  Rating: N/A |
Ran out of fuel. Got 10 gallons and opened my manuel and it tells me to unscrew the cap on the secondary filter and direct fuel under pressure 25 psi. What tool do I need to do this? or is there a differant way? 8V-92 ddec2 | ||
| Craig Craddock (Gs4)
Registered Member Username: Gs4 Post Number: 49 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.19.14.24 Rating: N/A |
I install a small electric fuel pump at the secondary fuel filter and pump from a gallon jug. Someone on one of the boards said he uses a garden sprayer. | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1374 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.71.102.189  Rating: N/A |
I attach my garden sprayer to the fitting on the primary filter. In a pinch, anything that will screw in to the plug, and jam your sprayer hose on there any way you can and feed it some fuel. For a slicker set-up, an airline quick disconnect, female on the sprayer hose, and a quarter turn shut-off valve inline with the male into a fitting to screw into the filter housing will do the trick. Of course, you'll not be needing it again...will you? Avoid priming. Filter changes with screw on filters, close the main valve, pre-fill filters with fuel, open valve, start motor and run it throttle well advanced until the remaining air is gone. (The old canisters, some priming required.) And, don't run out of fuel. happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| c.w Van Hagen (Van)
Registered Member Username: Van Post Number: 69 Registered: 7-2008 Posted From: 72.193.19.183  Rating: |
I used a pre-filtered in line free flow elecric fuel pump installed before the primary filter.Cost of about 65 dollars from car quest,with a rocker switch wired directly to the batts so the main battery switch does not have to be turned on .This set up seems to work pretty good ,it will draw the fuel from the tank and send it thru the primary all the way tru the secondary.turn electric pump on and in minutes the system is primed ,Good luck Van P.S. filling the filters first still recommended. (Message edited by van on October 20, 2008) | ||
| john degemis (Degemis)
Registered Member Username: Degemis Post Number: 27 Registered: 3-2008 Posted From: 68.113.38.16 Rating: N/A |
How much should I pump in? | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 597 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 76.91.197.153 Rating: N/A |
All it will take. Pump at least a gallon, and if you are doing it by hand, pump until you feel a lot of resistance. You aren't wasting any, as it all goes thru the return back to the tank. Good luck, G | ||
| john degemis (Degemis)
Registered Member Username: Degemis Post Number: 28 Registered: 3-2008 Posted From: 68.113.38.16 Rating: N/A |
Went to Wal-mart paid $7 for a garden sprayer. A 3/8 compression fitting I had screwed into the filter and the other end fit the end of the sprayer hose and I was set. I had filled the filters already. Only took a few pumps may be a cup of fuel. Thought I must have done something wrong. But it started right up. Thanks you all for the advise. | ||
| James Robinson (Jjrbus)
Registered Member Username: Jjrbus Post Number: 164 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 174.150.15.160 Rating: N/A |
I May be just lucky. I have a 6V71 McI5C with auto. I have needed to prime they system twice. Both times I closed the shutoff valve at the filter, filled the filter with fuel, did this a couple times and bus started!! The first time I did this I know the line from the tank to the filters was empty as we had blown the line out with compressed air. The second time, filter and line to the engine were empty, this could have been avoided by turning the shutoff back on befor starting engine!!! | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 746 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.85 Rating: N/A |
I primed mine with a small electric fuel pump at the tank outlet line fitting. Of course I had to disconnect the line from the tank. Needless to say this is a big pain. I don't understand how priming at the secondary filter can keep the engine running long enough to get rid of the air from the secondary through the primary filter to the tank ? Will someone please tell me how this happens? | ||
| doug yes (Dougg)
Registered Member Username: Dougg Post Number: 59 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 71.29.25.129 Rating: N/A |
We replaced all our filters with a Fuel Pro from the Freightliner dealer. There is a cap on top of the Fuel Pro. Remove cap, fill filter with fuel, replace cap, start bus. It's the easiest system and you can also see when it's time to change the filter through the clear cover. | ||
| Moe Hollow (Moehollow)
Registered Member Username: Moehollow Post Number: 70 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 71.102.20.26 Rating: N/A |
Gus, I once lost prime. We made sure that the filters were full and used a can of starting fluid to start things turning. It was enough to reprime the system. I think that it is not a good way to go though, since, I am told, one could cause other problems. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 747 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.184 Rating: N/A |
Moe, The time I lost prime the check valve at the inlet to the primary filter on the firewall failed and the fuel drained back to the tank. I never would have thought the engine pump could fill this line all the way from the front of the bus to the rear before the injectors could get rid of the air, but maybe it would have? My pump is mechanical and attached to the engine so it is vacumn up to the inlet to the secondaary filter. Some buses may have electric pumps at the tank and thus, have a pressure system. But mine is mostly vacumn. I've been tempted for a long time to install an emergency electric pump at the tank on a parallel fuel line so I will have a quick prime if ever needed. All it would need is a couple of Ts and a valve. | ||
| Jerry campbell (Busin704)
Registered Member Username: Busin704 Post Number: 5 Registered: 8-2008 Posted From: 98.17.99.18 Rating: N/A |
My 102A3 has a pump at the tank that you can hear running after engine start. | ||
| David Lower (Dave_l)
Registered Member Username: Dave_l Post Number: 85 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 67.58.201.10  Rating: N/A |
Hello Cat V8's have a manual priming pump on top of the engine. the engines i seen them on i think is a 3208, could it be fitted to a detroit? Just an idea. Dave L Not sure if it was mounted on the injector pump,but the mechanics I worked with would push on this with there thumb repeatedly until fuel came out a blead screw then close the blead screw and start the engine. It was used to pull air out of the line between the filters and the injector pump when they changed filters. (Message edited by dave_l on October 23, 2008) | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 854 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 174.144.65.217  Rating: N/A |
Not sure, but I think the CAT uses a timed injector pump that pumps fuel to the appropriate injector at the appropriate time. The 2 cycle DD engines use a pump that maintains a constant pressure in the fuel lines and the fuel flow to each injector is controlled by the rack. Jack | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 206 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 209.50.72.2 Rating: N/A |
When I had all the loss of prime trouble I was told that some MCI's use an electric pump that is used to prime the system till the engine starts. I bought an electric pump at a performance diesel place and a check valve. I installed the check valve in the fuel line at the tank with a "T" on each side of it. I installed the electric pump in parallel with the check valve and it comes on and fills the system while the electronics do their check when I turn the key to run and then I start the engine after about 10 seconds. A n/c pressure switch turns off the electric fuel pump after the mechanical pump builds up 15 psi or more. The system works great and no more start up problems. Bill | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 748 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.117 Rating: N/A |
Bill, If you have loss of prime more than once in a very long time you have a leak somewhere. Normally there is enough fuel in the secondary filter to start the engine. I've only had loss of prime that one time when my check valve failed. That was about two years ago, no problem since I repaired the valve. | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 207 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 209.50.72.2 Rating: N/A |
Gus Everything possible was done to locate the cause of the loss of prime. DD mechanics couldn't find it and it was one of them that told me about MCI having an electric pump to prime as well as a spring loaded check valve in the return line. I use a Fuel Pro 382 and did away with the orginal filter system. I don't know if this is contributing to the problem as a friend of mine has the same setup and he is having a similar problem although not as bad as I am. Everything started about a year after we installed an electronic engine. At least the electric fuel pump corrected the problem and it makes the engine start very easy when it is cold outside. Bill | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 855 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 174.144.210.6 Rating: N/A |
Bill, We have a Fuel Pro 382 on our MC-8 (8V71) and have not had any problem. Is it possible your FuelPro is mounted higher than the fuel tank and siphoning back when sitting without the engine running? Jack | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 208 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 209.50.72.2 Rating: N/A |
Jack The fuel pro is just slightly above the fuel tank. I have several check valves in the line as well as the spring loaded one on the return. This has really been a brain teaser but nobody can find what happened. Bill | ||
| Moe Hollow (Moehollow)
Registered Member Username: Moehollow Post Number: 71 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 71.102.20.26 Rating: N/A |
I lost prime twice in two weeks last year. Each time I was low on fuel. Really puzzled me until I realized someone was siphoning my tank. Fortunately, I was only putting in 20 gallons at a time. | ||
| Tom Christman (Tchristman)
Registered Member Username: Tchristman Post Number: 29 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.218.33.156 Rating: N/A |
If you do install a fuel pump bib to the secondary fuel filter, make sure it is the fuel filter after the fuel pump. You do not want to pressurize the fuel pump since you can blow out the O rings in it. Good Luck, TomC | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 337 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 216.199.229.62 Rating: N/A |
I have seen some posts here about installing an automotive type electric fuel pump. At the risk of starting a scrap (which I do not want to do), I point out that a Detroit 2 stroke fuel system circulates about 50 or more gallons per hour, partially to keep injectors cool. If you install one of the smaller capacity pumps that's fine but it MUST be installed so that the engine bypasses it when running normally otherwise you will be starving the fuel system when trying to drag 50 gallons through a pump designed to pump 20! The bus MIGHT run o.k. driving around you neighborhood but you will likely have real problems accellerating onto the Interstate or pulling a grade. The method of installing the pump with tees around the OEM check valve would work good especially if your priming pump has a 1/4 turn shut off valve to prevent back flow when the bus is not running. | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 209 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 209.50.72.2 Rating: N/A |
Jim I have another check valve up the line to prevent back flow. The fuel pump is a high volume type used in high performance diesel trucks modifications. I think the pressure rating is 18 lbs. It is in the circut all the time as it primes the system each time I start the engine then cuts out once the mechanical pump builds to 15 or more psi. I have a DDEC IV engine which requires you to turn the key on and wait for the SEL and CEL to go out then start. This is sufficient time for the electric pump to prime the system. Bill | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 339 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 216.199.229.62 Rating: N/A |
Bill, that sounds cool. Yours is not the type I am talking about. I have seen some guys use a pump you might use on a genset or regular car application. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 749 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.90 Rating: N/A |
Jim, I used a plain ordinary auto fuel pump. If I install it permanently it will be in parallel with the original fuel system and be out of the system during normal use. This system uses two valves to isolate either the pump or the original tank outlet. | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 340 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 216.199.229.62 Rating: N/A |
Gus, Parallel with a valve to prevent drain back is the key. The OEM fuel system should not need a priming pump unless there is a leak or maybe it sits for a year without running. Remember, these things did not have priming pumps for their first three million miles! | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 753 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.110 Rating: N/A |
Jim, They didn't sit around for a couple of months or more either. They didn't have time to leak down! As I said, my check valve failed and the supply line drained back into the tank. | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 342 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 199.181.167.82 Rating: N/A |
Gus I agree completely! |
