| Author | Message | ||
| Jim Rink (Fakeguy)
Registered Member Username: Fakeguy Post Number: 126 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 70.61.17.72  Rating: N/A |
I have been draining the valve from my 1962 PD4106 air compressor discharge muffler valve regularly and get normal black watery discharge. Also, drain my auxiliary tank regularly. So far so good...Mystery part is that I recently (finally) located my wet and dry tanks. Manuals say to drain daily but since I had not located until recently I have not drained...DAILY??? how about not since I have had the coach-4 years. ANYHOW...I got under the bus today, opened the drain valve on the dry tank and pssst...CLEAN AIR...I was afraid of what I would find but was pleasantly (but suspiciously) suprised. The wet tank is plugged with no drain valve. Since I got clean drain from dry tank, I see no reason to fool with wet tank. Can anyone explain, why my dry tank was clean? Perhaps I have an automatic draining device I do not know about? I would appreciate any input on this. I wishfully think that somehow everything is ok and I do not have to worry about draining the wet or dry tank for some unknown reason. ANY CLUES out there??? Thanks in advance | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 606 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.75.253 Rating: N/A |
Jim, By doing a good job of draining the muffler tank, you have greatly reduced the moisture continuing on into the system. BUT, they are called wet and dry tanks for a reason! Most of the rest of the moisture will condense in the wet tank. Until it fills completely, almost no water will pass into the dry tank. Another thing to think about, liquids don't compress. So, any water in a tank reduces its air storage capacity. Drain the air pressure everywhere, then remove the plug on the wet tank and replace it with a valve. Several styles are available, including cord-operated, where you pull a line run to the outside edge of the bus to operate the hard to reach valve. Don't go under your air ride bus, or between the tires and the wheel wells until you have it blocked securely at the jacking points! Good luck, and happy draining. George | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1437 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 12.33.160.99  Rating: |
Jim - George is right on - you need to pull the plug on your wet tank and drain the gunk out. Be prepared - it can be very, very yucky! Also, his suggestion for getting the remote release drain valves is a good one. You should be able to pick them up at any NAPA store, especially one that caters to the 18-wheeler crowd (or at an 18-wheeler parts store, for that matter.) You'll need to know the thread size for them to match. Another thought is to install an air dryer unit similar to what later model GMs and others use. These automatically purge the wet tank when the governor kicks out at 110-120 psi. And while you're playing with the plumbing, install some quick-disconnect air chucks so you can air the coach up using shop air or a portable compressor. I'll send you a couple of photos of my 4106's set-up when I get back to Fresno from MN on Tues. FWIW & HTH. . .  | ||
| Jim Rink (Fakeguy)
Registered Member Username: Fakeguy Post Number: 127 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 70.61.17.72 Rating: N/A |
HEY Thanks guys. I have a corded operated valve. Will drain wet tank and replace with cord valve. I had a sneaking suspicion it was called wet tank for a reason Thanks again for the good info | ||
| L James Jones Jr (Jamo)
Registered Member Username: Jamo Post Number: 50 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 74.79.238.147  Rating: N/A |
RJ... Could you send those pics to me as well? jrjones(at)twcny(dot)rr(dot)com Should be close enough for us 4104 folks, eh?? Thanks!! On my 4104, I have an air chuck on my front dry tank (compartment under the driver's seat). I read somewhere in here about possible check valves, but mine airs up fine at the front tank...bags and brakes. Hope I'm not doing any damage. Thanks guys....Jamo | ||
| Jim Rink (Fakeguy)
Registered Member Username: Fakeguy Post Number: 128 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 70.61.17.72 Rating: N/A |
RJ. Yes, Like Jamo, I would be very interested in seeing pix of your air chuck set up | ||
| Larry & Lynne Dixon (Larry_d)
Registered Member Username: Larry_d Post Number: 169 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 71.111.188.44  Rating: N/A |
RJ Why not post the pictures on here? I bet a whole bunch of us would like to see, one picture is worth a K of words. Thanks 4905 Larry | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 762 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.67 Rating: N/A |
Jamo, That is the Aux tank, the dry tank is underneath in front of the axle. I use this to air up the whole system too, works well and don't see how it could possible cause any damage. It is much simpler than trying to connect to the wet tank. The dry tank is even harder to get to. The easy way to connect to the air system is to install a female quick disconnect at the aux tank so you can use it to air up the tires or for air tools. To air up the bus system via this female fitting I put two male quick disconnects back to back with a short nipple. You can leave this on the tank if you put a valve before the female fitting. This allows you to either take air from the bus or add to it. (Message edited by gusc on November 03, 2008) | ||
| Jim Rink (Fakeguy)
Registered Member Username: Fakeguy Post Number: 129 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 70.61.17.72 Rating: N/A |
Gus...thanks for the confirmation. I have the exact setup you describe on my aux tank. I have been concerned about damage to check valves by airing up suspension using this tap through the auxiliary tank. It is handy for lots of things including tires and raising the bus without firing the engine. thanks again for the reply | ||
| L James Jones Jr (Jamo)
Registered Member Username: Jamo Post Number: 52 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 74.79.238.147 Rating: N/A |
Two males back to back with a short nipple. Jeez, I thought I'd strayed to another site! Oughta put a couple females in there just to keep them honest. Actually, I already have those males & nipples to air up my Aux tank...and bags, and brakes. Works great. Glad I'm not doing any damage to inline check valves. Thanks for the pics and info too, RJ....as well as all the good reading (& info) from the rest of you fine folks... Jamo | ||
| L James Jones Jr (Jamo)
Registered Member Username: Jamo Post Number: 53 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 74.79.238.147 Rating: N/A |
Ooooops, meant to say thanks to you, Gus. You sent me the pics and info on the shocks from another thread. Thanks you Gus... Jamo | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 764 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.15 Rating: N/A |
I see no way you can ever damage a check valve on anything. Most are simple flappers or balls, they just close when pressure is reversed. They are the simplest valves ever. Jamo, you will enjoy those engine door struts. I thank myself for getting lucky every time I pull that handle. | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 94 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 205.250.186.179 Rating: N/A |
while you have the drain plug out of the bottom get a airesol can of brake kleen and a 10" piece of 1/4 air line or any thing that you can slip over the straw that comes with the can and spray inside of the air tank moving the pipe around to get all parts of the inside of the tank. use all the can full and do a good jop of getting the ends and the sides as it washs out it will be messy so be sure that you put something down to catch the out flow. this will clean out all that sludge and depending how bad it is you may have to use 2 cans full when finished spraying just leave the plug out for a couple hours to let the fumes dissapate and any left in the system will not hurt any thing. it evaporated real quick. when i spray a tank i spray all around in side and let it sit for a couple minutes the really wash it down as the first shot softens up the sludge and the last washs out every thing. | ||
| Jim Rink (Fakeguy)
Registered Member Username: Fakeguy Post Number: 130 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 70.61.17.72 Rating: N/A |
MEL..Thanks for that cleaning info...I was wondering how to clean out GUS. Thanks for the reassurance on check valves AND I sure would love to know about ENGINE DOOR STRUTS...I have been considering and not yet figured out specs on struts or best way to mount. I have a minor tear in rotator cuff in my right shoulder and sometimes I think I would rather be getting a root-canal over the pain I get holding that engine door open while I struggle to get the pin in with my left. Should I start new thread, perhaps? Thanks in advance | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 522 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.163 Rating: N/A |
.I was wondering how to clean out If you drive in freezing weather you will need to fill the alcohol jar . It serves the purpose of cleaning the first tank too. FF | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 371 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.208.233.103 Rating: N/A |
Jim....re mounting of door struts. Try Austinhardware.com. They sell them at a good price and will tell you exactly what you need and how to mount. BTDT....FWIW. RCB | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 372 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.208.233.103 Rating: N/A |
FF....elaborate a bit on the Alcohol jar. I have not used one, but you've piqued my interest! FWIW, all of my tanks are "wet" according to the above posts...each has a dump valve; 4 up front and two in the rear. Thanx, RCB (Message edited by chuckllb on November 06, 2008) | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 766 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.34 Rating: N/A |
Jim, Did I send you the lift strut photos and measurements? I thought I did but maybe not. Let me know. | ||
| Jim Rink (Fakeguy)
Registered Member Username: Fakeguy Post Number: 131 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 70.61.17.72 Rating: N/A |
Gus. I do not think you sent me photos but you may have...would appreciate again. jim.rink@gmail.com RC...just cleaned and filled alcohol bottle...thank you for the tip. I have used Austin...you are correct in that they have it all. I did not know that they could advise me on which to get. I ordered brackets from them for my bay doors..but that attempt failed. Bought the struts with guess work locally and eventually gave up on the idea. | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1438 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.166.160 Rating: N/A |
As requested, here are photos of my 4016's front and rear air chucks. First photo is the front,  Next is the rear:  Two more pics in the next post. . . | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1439 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.166.160 Rating: N/A |
Two more pics for you to contemplate: Second view of rear air chuck:  Finally, here is a close-up of the male/male adapter used to connect air hoses. Note that the shape of the end is different between the top and bottom ones. The top is more common, and seals better than the bottom, so make sure you get similar models so that they'll be compatible with the guy who comes to your rescue at oh dark thirty!  FWIW & HTH. . . | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 524 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.76 Rating: N/A |
"I have been draining the valve from my 1962 PD4106 air compressor discharge muffler valve regularly and get normal black watery discharge." I read about the muffler , but am not sure I have ever found it. A photo? FF | ||
| Jim Rink (Fakeguy)
Registered Member Username: Fakeguy Post Number: 132 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 192.88.212.34 Rating: N/A |
Fred...will take pic of mine this weekend and post...or at least what I think it is RJ..thanks for pix...if I am not confused, it appears second from bottom is off the discharge muffler drain line...correct? If so, that is a handy place to put one. My aux tank set up is very similar to yours. Thank you | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 767 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.84 Rating: N/A |
Jim, I don't think you can get air from the muffler drain line since it is before the check valve. I tried this once and it didn't work. You can fill from there though but it is much slower than at the aux tank. I just use the aux tank for everything because it is so easy to get to and is clean. RJ, I can't tell the location of your 32 and 3 photos? Is this your rear wet tank? | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1440 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.166.160 Rating: N/A |
Fred - Here's a pic of the discharge muffler for you. It's basically looking up at the top of the engine compartment over the transmission. The line on the left is coming directly off the air compressor. The copper line that the quick disconnect coupler is near is the main air line going forward. The discharge muffler's drain line is what my rear air chuck is plumbed into. (This muffler is also referred to as a "ping tank", as it softens the pulses generated by the compressor.)  Gus - The two pics you're referring to can probably be answered by the pic in this post. Sorry if they weren't clear before - resizing them to fit BNO's format caused me to crop them a bit too much. Filling from the rear will work - you just won't get any air into the aux. tank until the system reaches about 65 psi and the pressure regulator valve opens, just like if the coach's compressor is running. That's why filling from the front's faster - it fills the aux tank first, then starts "backfilling", if you will. FWIW & HTH. . . | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 528 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.90.229.178 Rating: N/A |
Thanks , Yes I found/ drain that , and 3 others fwd on pull chains. Gunky oil blasts out , but its a GREAT antitheft device , leave it open and the coach will never air up. Good for recovering New Yorkers. FF | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 769 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.21 Rating: N/A |
RJ, My drain line is vertical straight down from my muffler. Yours appears to be horizontal? I don't see how a horizontal drain line can be as effective as a vertical. A vertical one will drain even with no air pressure. | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1441 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.166.160 Rating: N/A |
Gus - It is horizontal. . . sort of. Right off the bottom of the ping tank is a 45 elbow and then the first valve. This valve is close enough to the body that the handle just barely clears the panel above it. The line itself at this point is about 1" from the panel. As the line moves forward to the bulkhead, it slopes downward, so by the time it actually turns towards the ground, it's about 3" from the upper panel. Roughly a 2" drop over 24" or so. Not as effective, I'm sure, as a straight south shot like your '04's, but at least it would allow gunk to dribble out slowly if left open. Of course, with air pressure behind it, that's a moot point. I like Fred's idea of using the ping tank drain as an effective anti-theft device, too! Combinded with setting the rear run switches to "off", clever!! FWIW & HTH. . . | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 70.52.103.135 Rating: N/A |
It seems like air-related topics could almost be a separate board? Anyway, the deeper I dig the more mysteries I find. Today I discovered my ‘Bendix-Westinghouse System Guard Air Dryer.’ In smaller print it says: ‘Heavy Vehicle System group.’ The unit, which seems in pretty good shape, bears a sticker with installation instructions (it’s already installed so who cares?) but nothing about maintenance. Anybody know if it needs to be cleaned, bled, petted, kicked…? Does it require new filters or oil or any kind of routine maintenance – or do I just talk to it occasionally and hope it doesn’t get mad? Thanks for any feedback. Nellie Wilson | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 538 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.82.162.11 Rating: N/A |
Anybody know if it needs to be cleaned, bled, petted, kicked…? Most demand at least annual service . FF | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 872 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.54.29.215  Rating: N/A |
FF, I think the discharge muffler is nothing more than a cast iron contanier with no valves, filter media or anything else inside of it. Only maintenence is daily draining when using the bus. Jack | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1443 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.166.160 Rating: N/A |
Jack - Fred was responding to Nellie's question related to her "Bendix-Westinghouse System Guard Air Dryer", not the simple ping tank/discharge muffler on the GMs. Nellie - Fred's right, annual service is considered preventative maintenance on these things. Here's a link to the AD-9 dryer's service instructions on Bendix's website: http://www.bendixvrc.com/itemDisplay.asp?documentID=5091 FWIW & HTH. . . |
