| Author |
Message |
Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 06, 2002 - 7:47 pm: | |
Anyone have a good recommendation as to an apartment sized 24" wide 120 VAC reefer/freezer for my electric bus?
Can not afford the Sunfrost units--while very cool, they cost as much as my coach did. Thanks in advance. Henry |
Richard C. Jones (63.161.150.2)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 06, 2002 - 11:13 pm: | |
General Electric makes a 9.6 cu ft unit that is only about 24" deep. It ss a reefer with manual defrost freezer. They are $289. at Lowes and about $20 less at Sam's Club.
Richard C. Jones
'83 MC-9 |
FAST FRED (65.56.26.123)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 07, 2002 - 7:39 am: | |
Read the fed tag that is required that tells you how much electric the box will use in a year.
Divide by 365 , and you have KW per day.
Change KW into amps of 120V and multiply by 10 , as thats the amps needed in 12V.
Then doubble that number and and add 10% (inverter inefficency)you have the size of the battery for one 24 hour day.
So much for the house unit.
FAST FRED |
Don KS/TX (64.24.4.180)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 07, 2002 - 9:16 pm: | |
Ah come on now, I have had a house unit in the last two RV's, and in the bus. Two were the little jobs from Lowes, the bus one is a large one with icemaker etc (See Miss April 2002, Bus Conversions magazine) Most of my friends have a house type unit also. They work great, much better than the RV type stuff, got more room, get stuff really cold, and cost far less. I have had several of both, and would never go back to an ammonia job again. Spend a couple hundred on a really good house type, spend a little on batteries, and live well. Most buses have a generator, battery bank, and inverter already, so why suffer with warm beer? |
Ace (24.28.44.126)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 07, 2002 - 11:30 pm: | |
I would have to agree even though I have an under counter fridge just big enough for the two of us, it keeps everything we need frosty cold in the fridge and frozen solid in the freezer while operating on a very small amount of current! I have friends who also say they will NEVER go back to an RV fridge just for the original outlay of money over the house type and the longevity over the RV type! Seems the RV types don't last as long as the house types and by chance if your house type goes bad, they are cheap enough to replace!
Ace |
Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 13, 2002 - 5:02 pm: | |
The most important thing to consider here is the absolute NECESSITY of having an endless supply (or nearly so) of ICE COLD BEER!!!!!
Nothin' else even comes close, except,... perhaps having that very young, blue eyed, blond, trim, educated, articulate, intelligent............ |
FAST FRED (65.56.24.6)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 14, 2002 - 6:26 am: | |
Henry is right , no fridge , keeps beer as cold as an ice chest!
We use both , ice chest for the Becks , (or in a place where it can be found Ballentines Ale)
and a fridge for mere food.
FAST FRED |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (66.190.119.82)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 14, 2002 - 8:14 am: | |
And if you want the beer really cold, throw a cup of rock salt in the ice chest.
Richard |
Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.164.175.15)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 15, 2002 - 7:32 pm: | |
Hey Fred;
You must be very $rich$ as well as very thoughtful since you can afford Beck's beer. I do not know if we can even get that great brew out here in the wilds of SW Oregon. Certainly not $cheap$.
When I began this icebox hunt endeavor, had figured on a MINIMUM of 500 KWHs per year for the box. Now finding that is not necessarily true, as some smaller manual defrost boxes only use 350 KWH annually.
Are they lying? Is the duty cycle and energy consumption in a RV/bus more than in the average house? Seems to me buses get hotter inside than homes. What do you think. Value your opinion. Henry |
FAST FRED (65.58.227.158)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 1:04 pm: | |
I have never read what the test conditions are for the Gov test , although they must be buried someplace on the web.
I would assume a coach would be air cond earlier than a house as the ability to find shade is iffy, and coaches absorb heat faster than a house.
With no air cond , a coach will always be warmer than a house (in summer)as the tiny mass & very large glass area are a handycap.
The Gov. numbers are only relative anyway , so a better unit will always be better, although the best , something like a Sunfrost may be hard to justify , unless you do loads of gen free boondockin.
There are other freezer units made for the alt energy set that have great insulation/ smaller insides, but are much better than house stuff on electric.
Some are direct 12V/24V so the inverter loss can be avoided.
A KW a day is pretty cheap , plugged into the Power Post , but very expensive when you figure the cost of 2KW worth of batts (per day) , a charge system , a monitoring system and the slide out tray and cabeling needed to feed a costly sine wave inverter.
On boats the "rule of thumb" was that electric would only work in boxes that lost under 5lbs of ice per day. We would stick in 75 lbs of ice , wait a day for the box to cool and then weigh the ice.
Then after (hopefully) another 3 or 4 days re-weigh the ice and figure the daily loss.
IF you could be assured of a local supply of block ice , a couple of hundred pounds in a specially built ice box might take care of your boondockin needs , at far less cost than a complex, e$pensive electric job.
The constant output of solar pannels would be great for a fridge , except the need to be in the direct sun for them to work.
If there was a cheap easy way out ,(besides propane) everybody would be doing it .
You might try a set of cost sheets to compare total system costs.
FAST FRED |
Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 8:28 pm: | |
Hello Fred;
Yeah, diesel electric is more $$$ than diesel propane, but not that much more, building from scratch and using used components and stuff? Not sure as of yet.
Have not done the dediciated spread sheets comparing each, as I have not accurately determined what used propane stuff would cost.
This is because I have been concentrating on diesel stuff instead. Have discovered that some of the stuff can be swapped out cheaply thought. However, some electric stuff like a huge charger will be $spendy$.
Will still need a diesel gen set. A slightly bigger used one not much more $$$ than a small used one. Still will need batteries and a inverter also.
Just need more batts (lots more) with the diesel electric scheme. Same inverter. Electric icebox much cheaper. Used diesel space heater/water heater not much more than propane. Electric cooktop cheap.
No propane cook stove/oven. No propane water heater. No propane tanks or lines or regulators. 120 VAC stuff cheap. Same with electrical stuff such as breakers, etc..
Same roof AC units. Same needed diesel tanks. Same main diesel engine. Same price? Fred--you ask the most intelligent questions. I will have to get back to you after I figure the conversion costs using conventional propane stuff.
Right now my best quess is that, with my needs, budget and design, it APPEARS diesel electric is slightly more money, but not that much more than diesel propane. I may be proven wrong. Thanks. Henry |
FAST FRED (63.208.83.25)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 5:37 am: | |
The KEY to your cost sheet will be how many DAYS you wish to boondock , with out the noisemaker.
This self contained ability (for me ) should be at least 3 days, with heat.
This gives you the ability to use the coach as a guest cabin , or Emergency shelter, with no hassles.
You will find 3 days fairly easy in terms of capacity , but becomes much more expensive as you try to stretch it.
The other problem you will find is any DC system needs a FULL recharge ,not just a few hours of bulk charging to have the batts stay at full capacity.
This translates to LONG hours of electric to push that last 10% back into the batt set., even with a good 3 stage volt regulator.
AS it is very hard to get a batt charger to work at full output on gen set power you might consider a different setup.
Basically a large alternator belted on the gen set , with a temp sensing 3 stage charge setup , will do the BEST job on the batts, in the shortest time.
As always the biggest hassle is building a coach & not being positive on how the coach will be used , years down the road.
Room for system expansion might be easy to design in now.
FAST FRED |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (66.190.119.82)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 7:29 am: | |
“As it is very hard to get a batt charger to work at full output on gen set power you might consider a different setup".
Fred, I have never found this to be a problem. No reason a battery charger will not work as well on a genset output as on shore power.
I think the problem is the length of time it takes any charger to bring the batteries up to full 100% charge. Probably would have to run the genset for at least 24 hours to accomplish this.
Richard |
FAST FRED (63.215.234.161)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 9:37 am: | |
The sine wave that the PP delivers and some e$pensive inverters is great,
BUT the output from many gensets is not good enough to work items like batt chargers to full power.
Yes its all "120v" , but some of the 120 is more powerfull than others.
Wave form , peak voltage , ya got me , but the POWER is reduced somehow.
Home Power discusses this on occasion , check thru there free downloads for more info.
FAST FRED |
Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 3:27 pm: | |
Sounds like the key to this thing is a charger that will not take 24 hours to totally recharge the bank, or living with partially charged batts and paying the price down the road in reduced life.
Our Oregon homestead has a dinky system. Nine (9) used M51 PV's on the roof and only 6 T-105 golf cart batteries just outside the cabin. Small, but works ok. Propane Honda gen set.
The charger can slam dunk the batts in only 4 hours. By then they are really boiling (15.5 VDC) and need lots of make up water. One reason I got rid of the Hydro Caps. Charger too big?
But, it is very noisy (nearly as loud as the gen set-golf cart charger) and I want the coach batteries to charge quickly over a 6 to 8 hour rate, but QUIETLY. Will have to look around for the proper model charger. Thanks. Henry |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (66.190.119.82)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 5:01 pm: | |
By overcharging and getting the batteries hot and boiling out the water and reducing the life of the batteries, it is possible to recharge them in a relatively shorter period of time. It is just hard on the batteries themselves.
As far as the output wave shape on a genset, on any quality genset such as Wrico or the other manufacturers, they use a brushless synchronous generator/alternator whose output waveform includes less than 5% harmonic distortion. Typical manufacturers are Lima and Kato and an English company that I have forgot the name of.
I have personally checked the harmonic distortion of hundreds of gensets and they are always below 5% distortion. The utility power distortion is generally at least 5%. I have never checked it and found it below this number. When viewed on a scope, the wave shape from the gensets mentioned looks like a pure sine wave with little or no flat topping, which is a sign of harmonic distortion. I rally do not feel that the quality of power from a quality genset is any worse than the utility, and is many times better.
One of the problems with the utility power is that when there are large users in the vicinity and they have large non-linear loads, such as big electronic motor starters, the wave shape gets horribly distorted. Especially if you are out near the end of the distribution line.
Based on this and my forty years experience with generators and checking for clean power and trying to clean up utility power for large-scale computers, I just can not buy the idea that genset power is worse for changing batteries than the utility.
Even if the genset power was a square wave or modified sine wave, it should make no difference as the AC power is converted to DC, which is then regulated for the desired output DC voltage. IMHO
Richard |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (64.114.233.77)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 12:05 am: | |
Fast Fred, it might be possible that with a regular charger that the recharge would be poorer on a genset because of slightly lowered line voltage.
If your charger is in an inverter that a Link controls, the charger will make up for limitations in the input voltage and condition of the power.
This is possible because the charger is capable of putting out way more than the rated output. We have caught ours putting out nearly double its ratings when the link called for it.
Henry, I think that you want to take a look at the recharge rates for those batteries. The best recharge rates are C/20 and most faster systems do not exceed C/8 and these usually make a point of using temperature control to keep them from overheating.
To find either number, total up your system amp hours and divide by one of the above numbers to get your recharge rate. Of couse, this means you're looking at a minimum of 8 hours for a full recharge.
All the information I've run across says that four hours is way too fast for any real battery life.
For what it's worth.
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 |
Don KS/TX (64.24.4.144)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 7:22 am: | |
Am I missing something here? Recharging is normally done with a three stage charger in the inverter, in my case a Heart 2500. The three stage charger with temp controls brings the Trojans back up in a hurry, safely. It could not care less if you are plugged into a 50 amp RV pole or running the genset. |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (66.190.119.82)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 7:26 am: | |
Fred, I suggest that you or anyone else does not take as Gospel, everything that is written in Home Power or any other publication or on any Board.
I see so much information written that is apparently by someone that is not very knowledgeable of the subject. A Sears type battery charger is one of the simplest electrical devices there is It really does matter if the AC voltage is 110 volts or 125 volts, the output will be OK to recharge a battery. You must use an accurate Digital voltmeter to determine what the actual out put DC voltage is. A generator generates all utility power and it does not matter whether it is a 5 KW or a 5 Megawatt generator. They will all provide the same results.
Richard |
Doug Dickinson (Dougd470) (65.161.188.9)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 9:46 am: | |
Hold it folks - not all generators are exactly like being plugged into the power grid. Some of the really cheap ones are just not as good in the "clean power" department. The differences, however, are minimal to the operation of equipment - given a properly sized generator for the task. Some generators have a better surge power capibility (due to heaver windings) and some seem to handle loads better (usually a function of a better governor and control setup coupled with a decent engine size). Others are just not stable (poor governor). This assumes the device has been maintained properly. THis is why we shop for a good generator - right?
A good old solid generator set is usually the best bet. Good design, construction, and maintenance will spell the results you see from a gen set - same as with the rest of the coach.
Fred - assuming you have a decent generator to start with (and I have a hunch you do considering the other items you have installed) you might have an EXTREMELY good tech look at the gen set - one with an "O" scope to look at wave form and distortion, as well as the other factors. If you are seeing a measurable difference between the gen set and shore power, there is most likely a problem with your gen set.
(This is from 30+ years of generator and backup power use for both primary and backup power at remote radio sites where power clarity is absolutely critical).
My 2 cents. |
FAST FRED (63.215.227.39)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 9:56 am: | |
That does NOT seem to be the results from actual small genset use,
however most of the off grid folks suffer from cheapouts ,
so I would doubt if an indistrial Lima gen end is Ever part of their systems.
No matter if your plugged into Niagra Falls , direct, the best chargers , or charger half of an inverter can not change battery basics.
Namely that it takes MANY hours to FULLY recharge a battery set, as the last 10% always goes in slowly , and if its NOT properly recharged the service cap of the batt is forever diminished.
The easy bet would be a day at the PP every 2 weeks or so , to attempt to force that last 10% back in, with an overnite charge.
Monthly Equalizing (very slow forced overcharge) would also be a big help to a set that only got a series of 3 -4 hour recharges from a gen set.
A nice long drive , with house batts hooked to a good alternator would also be a big help.
Although this brings us back to the start, namely that the BEST way to recharge a batt set , in the fastest time is STILL a Big alternator hooked to the gen set.
And an all day solar top off for the last bit.
For the TEC folks it may be the only rational way, we hear of folks with fork lift & submarine batts that weigh a ton and can discharge a thousand amps , be fore getting to the C50 recharge point.
At 100A of charger its at least 12 hours to fill most of this style setup.
However most 100A chargers will only charge at max rate into a very low batt , so it would be more realistic to figgure 75A into the set, or 13.3 hours , just for the bulk .
A OTS 150A alternator from the truck place , with the internal regulator disconected , and a good 3 stage regulator , could cut the gen set on time in half.
So the batt set could be recharged during the day if air cond is needed , with no need to grind away all night , to get the last , but necessary bit of charge in.
Home power , like any source is only OPINION , however they DO have some real electric geeks there doing the testing.
One I remember is their "democracy rack" where they installed about a dozen solar pannels in the same sun following rack.
They used Fluke recording digital amp & volt meters for a YEAR , and then compared advertised output with what they actually got , and then used a formula with the cost , to get cheapest output per buck.
These guys have no problems with coughing up MANY thousands of bucks for instrumenting almost everything. They even did work on what inverterts actually put out in terms of % efficency.
(except for the $$$ sine wave stuff , none did well at running large motors)
All information is only opinion but I respect there methods , as much as I disrespect the basically Communist view of business ect , that they usually puke out.
Their hate of the Free Market System , does not keep me from using the usefull info.
FAST FRED |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (66.190.119.82)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 10:27 am: | |
Doug, I think you made an excellent write-up, and anyone with long experience in the power generating field would agree with you.
Fred, I also agree with you that there are some “cheap charlie” gensets that have very poor voltage regulation and a very high output distortion of 10% or more. These are typically the 3600-rpm units used in construction. I would hope that nobody converting a coach would use one of these.
However, I really do not believe that will make a difference in charging ability. As you so aptly stated, It takes a certain amount of time to properly recharge a battery. Even if you have a 1000 amp charger, you can only put a certain amount of energy back into the battery without damaging it. And that limitation is based on the batteries, not on the charger doing the charging.
The nice thing that you mention about using the bus alternator with a three stage regulator is that the regulator will control the DC output to the maximum charge rate that the battery can safely accept. None of the off the shelf chargers that I have seen have this capability. The chargers in most inverters are also three stage and will properly and safely recharge the battery at the maximum safe rate.
One thing you should remember is that the bus alternator generates AC power, which is rectified to DC, so there is really no difference in whether you start with the bus alternator or with the AC power from a genset or the utility. All chargers start with AC and convert to DC (except for the very old DC generators on earlier vehicles that actually generated DC directly).
As two “somewhat” opinionated individuals, I think we need to agree to disagree on this subject. LOL
Richard |
Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.164.175.138)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 6:10 pm: | |
The gen set we use at the homestead/cabin is a Honda with an industrial 3600 rpm motor. The charger was a $free$, hand me down older model used to charge an electric golf cart.
It is very noisy (buzzy) but it was priced right and it works. Problem is it cooks the batterys in about 4 hours. Peak voltage gets too high and the batts get too hot. Lots of water too.
Sure this is why the first string only lasted 4 years. That plus not recharging/equalizing at all when we should have during cloudy weather. The string sat at times partially discharged.
Would it work to only discharge the planned coach bank to a lower level (33%) and recharge at the same rate for less charge time? What?
This would relate to charging the batts over perhaps a 4 hour period each 2 days rather than over a 8 hour rate every 4 days.
However, the charging rate would stay the same. Only the length of time and the amount would be less. Still not a very good scheme. Oh well.
The only other thing would be to size the bank even larger, then draw less off of it then recharging quickly but this still doesn't help the fact that charging too fast hurts.
Perhaps, the only real way to do it is to charge at a 6 to 8 hour rate, accept the reduced batt life and get along with the coach conversion. Hey Fred....maybe propane doesn't sound soos bad after all!!! He, he, he! Henry |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (66.190.119.82)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 6:30 pm: | |
Henry, maybe you can find a cheap variac somewhere. That would allow you to turn down the AC input enough which would reduce your charge rate. I use one when I have a battery that is so low it does not want to take a charge. I can turn the input voltage up to 130-135 volts which generally works to make the battery accept a charge. Should be able to do the opposite by turning down the input to around 100 volts. You might be able to use a 600 or 1000 watt light dimmer to do the same thing.
Richard |
Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat) (68.7.217.217)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 19, 2002 - 12:33 am: | |
But Richard, be careful here... a lot of older chargers (especially old heavy ones) are built around "ferroresonant transformer" technology that doesn't give a darn what the input voltage is. They regulate their output independantly of input voltage. So Variac-ing one of these will do no good at all. Light dimmers are even a worse thing becuse they control "power" by messing with the phase angle of the waveform rather than actually controlling the amplitude as a variac would, and in general they don't do well running transformers and can play havoc with a Ferro transformer.
I'm wondering if Henry inadvertantly got hold of an 18 volt golf cart charger ...that would certainly explain cooking his batts in 4 hours..
I have one of these 18 volt chargers myself, although my simple solution to making it charge 12 volt batteries was to remove secondary turns from the transformer one by one until the output voltage was correct for 12 volt batteries. It's worked flawlessly now for over 15 years!!
Cheers
Gary |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (64.114.233.106)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 19, 2002 - 2:23 am: | |
I think Fast Fred has it right when he makes the point that the last 10 percent of the charge is a pain.
The way Heart described it in our paperwork seemed to be to discharge down to the 50% level, recharge until you get into the acceptance part of the charge (85% to 98%) for a number of cycles and then recharge to the float level, 98% or better.
Then, every month or six weeks, run an equalizeing charge. This meant that we should allow for use 1/3 of the capacity, working between 50% and 85%.
Our experience is that the inverter has done a fine job when used with a monitor that reports the state of charge. Without the monitor, it's too much guessing.
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher |
FAST FRED (65.56.25.163)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 19, 2002 - 5:40 am: | |
"Without the monitor, it's too much guessing"
Truer words were never written.
If a coach is going to really cycle a set of batterys , for any purpose , the above words could not be truer.
Esp if a coach has multiple sources , solar cells , engine alt , genset with alt or charger , and the PP , the ONLY way to know what state the batts are in is with a SMART monitoring unit that learns your batt sets charge and discharge abilities .
Cheaping out with a temp compensating hydrometer is far too much of a guess , (and big pain) compared to investing $200 or so in a system.
And then just reading a meter.
Would not be worth it for a PP camper that only spends a day in the woods , once in a while.
But for the folks with 400gal of water and a thousand pounds of batts , that plan on being gone camping free forever in some wilderness , it could be a wise investment.
FAST FRED |
Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 19, 2002 - 8:07 pm: | |
The idea of charging quickly at the bulk rate to around 80% to 90% then equalizing about once a month or soosss sounds like a good compromise.
That plus sizing the bank sosss hopefully the discharge level will never exceed 50% except during times when the APU MUST not run.
A compromise nevertheless, but one that appears doable in a coach conversion. And.. the E meter goes without saying is a must item. Wish I had one now.
Thanks for all your help here people. You guys have opened my eyes to things I did not even think possible, much less doable. CROWNS FOREVER!!! Henry |
Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 26, 2002 - 6:47 pm: | |
Hey Fred;
Right now it looks like the 16 T-105 batts and their steel racks/mounts may go in as heavy as 1250#.
Plus....some of the concept sketches and calculations are for 400 gallons of water and 400 gallons of holding.
How did you guess? And yes....an E Meter is planned for the coach. Wish I could afford one now, but can not. Thanks. Henry |
FAST FRED (63.215.239.204)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 27, 2002 - 5:12 am: | |
Just try to buy the E meter (or similar from other makers) BEFORE you spring for those nice new $$$ batts.
Most coaches have hight in the bays , can you handle the 16 or 17 inch hight of the Trojan L16?
Cost about the same , but smaller &(higher) footprint,& fewer cells to water
FAST FRED |
David & Lorna Schinske (Davidschinske) (206.148.180.90)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 27, 2002 - 6:47 pm: | |
Henry
Try www.energystar.org Has energy usage specs for various appliance. Last time I looked they had the mainstream stuff. Sunfrost wasn't listed but under dishwashers they listed the Finkle & Paykel dishdrawer I want. I don't like to do dishes and neither does anyone else in my family...so we get the dishwasher. Beside it uses less water than the kids go through. I know...we lived in a popup trailer for 17 months. We had to heat water on top of the stove and dump into a 5 gal jerry can. Also we are going with the Sunfrost RF19 just so we can get the 8cf freezer...we're addicted to Schwan's frozen foods and I keep my bread flour in the freezer. Hey, David bought the bus, so I get my choice of refrigerators and the Sunfrost is cheaper than the bus shell. |
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